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Angelfish problem



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 7th 06, 10:19 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
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Default Angelfish problem

Hi

I have a 140 litre (37 US Gallon) tank, with external eheim filtration,
which contains:

3 Angelfish (2 male, 1 female) - the larger male is about 3 inches from nose
to tale, whist the other 2 are probably 2 1/2 inches.
6 neon tetras
2 corydoras, around 1 1/2 inches long
2 loaches around 2 inches long
1 red-tip shark (which isn't really a shark!) around 2 1/2 inches long.

The tank has a sand bottom and is well planted.Water quality is good and I
do a 15% water change every 2 weeks. The tank has been established for
around 18 months with all the afore mentioned fish.

The larger male Angle has recently developed a list and when stationary
leans at about 45 degrees, sometimes more. When swimming he is normally
just about upright. He has no other symptoms or marks and appears to have a
healthy appetite. Any thoughts as to what might be causing his condition,
and how to treat it, would be much appreciated.

Regards

Neil Cummins


  #2  
Old March 8th 06, 12:14 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
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Default Angelfish problem

"Neil Cummins" wrote in
:

3 Angelfish (2 male, 1 female) - the larger male is about 3 inches
from nose to tale, whist the other 2 are probably 2 1/2 inches.


Have they been breeding? The only reliable way to sex angels is to observe
their genital papilla, which are only visible while they are spawning. The
male's spawning tube is narrow and pointed, the female's is wider and
rounded. Any other method if differentiating angelfish sex is just a
guess.

The larger male Angle has recently developed a list and when
stationary leans at about 45 degrees, sometimes more. When swimming


Don't worry about it. It is not a condition, it is normal and common
behaviour. You will see this behaviour much more frequently with wild
caught fish. The fish is listing over in order to get a better look at
something.
  #3  
Old March 10th 06, 10:35 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
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Default Angelfish problem

Neil Cummins wrote,
The larger male Angle has recently developed a list and when stationary
leans at about 45 degrees, sometimes more. When swimming he is normally
ust about upright. ............
Any thoughts as to what might be causing his condition,
and how to treat it, would be much appreciated.



I took a little trip for a week and a half - playing catch-up on a few
of the post...
Is your angelfish doing any better now that it's been a few days? If
not, first thing to look at is it's eyes. Could be physical damage,
corneal opacity (cloudy eye/s), or cataracts (white or grayish foggy
substance covering eye) - cataracts are caused by fungus. Aquatronics
makes a medication called Eye Fungex that works quite well on the
above... Eye flukes or brain flukes would also tend to make a fish lean
to one side, treated with Fluke-Tabs for two days...
Hole-in-the-head/hexamita disease - pin sized holes near nostrils, gill
plates or near eyes - mineral and/or vitamin "D" imbalance. Treated by
feeding red earth worms and metronidazole medication... Constipation -
Epsom Salts is a great purgative. Two teaspoons per 10 gal. will clear
intestinal tract of food obstructions...High nitrAtes...Bacterial
infection.

and I do a 15% water change every 2 weeks.


You should be doing at _least_ a 20% water change per week - needed not
only to keep nitrAtes down, but also to keep the DOC levels down. High
levels of eather could be the cause of the trouble............... Frank

  #4  
Old March 10th 06, 11:13 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
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Default Angelfish problem

"Frank" wrote in news:1142030111.793413.247490
@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

above... Eye flukes or brain flukes would also tend to make a fish lean
to one side, treated with Fluke-Tabs for two days...


I don't say this to sound glib, but have you kept many angelfish Frank? I
seriously doubt it is any sort of affliction as his fish are not showing
any signs of poor health.

Angelfish, most notably wild altums, do this kind of tilted body posturing
all the time, especially when they're being inquisitive. I suspect it is
because they are trying to get a better view of something without drawing
too much attention to themselves by moving around a lot. I imagine these
fish have a lot of 3D blind spots due to their large flattened shape.

Angelfish use a lot of slow moving body posturing to appear as narrow as
possible and to blend in to their surroundings, which in the wild consist
mostly of roots and brushwood. Listing over slightly to see something
above and to the side requires a lot less movement than reorienting the
whole body in the direction of the stimuli.

I've seen healthy, even breeding angels display this listing behaviour. It
seems the more calm and settled an angel is in its environment the less
likely you are to see their beautiful array of interesting body posturing.
  #5  
Old March 11th 06, 01:01 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
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Default Angelfish problem

On 10 Mar 2006 22:30:42 -0800, "Frank"
wrote:

dc wrote,
I seriously doubt it is any sort of affliction as his fish are not showing
any signs of poor health.


Neil pointed out he had the fish for 18 months and must have though it
to be a behaviour change, otherwise he wouldn't have posted in the
first place. I didn't say I disagreed with you - Neil asked, "Any
thoughts as to what might be causing his condition,
and how to treat it" - I gave my opinion, and how to treat it!

Angelfish, most notably wild altums, do this kind of tilted body posturing
all the time, especially when they're being inquisitive.


I agree. They also show aggression much the same way, espically when
picking a mate. I've seen them lock lips, spiralling through the tank
testing eachothers weakness. I've also seen them twist through a tank
alone, "not showing any signs of poor health" untill they started doing
it (the start of tumbling disease, or whirling disease)!

I don't say this to sound glib, but have you kept many angelfish Frank?


I don't see where that would have to do with what to look for when any
fish has a sudden behaviour change, and how to start treatment, just in
case (daily 20% water changes)...
But to answer your question, I have been around the block a few times
when it comes to angelfish. At one time, St. Louis Mo. (where I live)
had 4 wholesale fish outlets; All Pets (Sefari pet shops) which I
worked at evenings and weekends for the 5 years they were open, Vick's
and Belt's Aquarium, and Tropical World Pets (half owner for over 5
years). During that time I also bred, raised and sold fish to these
stores/wholesale outlets, including 1000s of angelfish of all species,
including the wild altums.

Might add, tanks lit from the side instead from the top will make
angels and discus swim at a tilt also............ Frank


For what it's worth, and adding not a shred more insight into the
tilting pterophyllum phenomenon, I've witnessed this in my own angels
in the past. I kept 6 healthy breeders in a well planted 55 for
several years and raised their eggs and fry separately, which has
nothing to do with the subject at hand, I simply offer it to qualify
me as an experienced angel person. Limited, compared to full scale
breeders, but experienced nonetheless. The tank was otherwise lightly
stocked, a couple of ancistrus, probably a few cories, and perhaps a
small school of some type of small tetras. I've witnessed the leaning
tower of Scalare in two angelfishes that I can recall. The behavior
lasted for several weeks, it did not occur at the same time in the two
fish, and after tearing out my hair, burning up the internet, and
blistering my fingers paging through books, the behavior disappeared
just as mysteriously as it appeared. I have no insight into the cause,
the only variable I can think of is the seasonal shifting of the
sunlight in a nearby window, not shining directly on the tank, but
clearly visible to the occupants. Because the fish recovered without
special intervention, just the routine weekly partial water changes, I
am left to wonder if the affected fish were looking at something that
I could not see, or responding to a light pattern that had meaning
only to them.

-- Mister Gardener
  #6  
Old March 11th 06, 01:28 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
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Default Angelfish problem

"Frank" wrote in
oups.com:

I don't see where that would have to do with what to look for when any
fish has a sudden behaviour change, and how to start treatment, just

....
But to answer your question, I have been around the block a few times
when it comes to angelfish. At one time, St. Louis Mo. (where I live)


Cool. Sounds like you've had a lot of great experience in the trade.

I've been around angelfish since I was ten years old or so, I don't
remember how long ago that first aquarium was really. I only asked because
the behaviour described in this thread is as normal to me as a dog that
barks. I found it odd that you suggested there might be a problem with the
fish or the tank.

However, you are absolutely correct that the sudden appearance of odd
behaviour is often a sign of a problem, this behaviour just didn't strike
me as being odd in the least.
  #7  
Old March 11th 06, 09:35 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
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Default Angelfish problem

dc wrote,
I only asked because
the behaviour described in this thread is as normal to me as a dog that
barks.


My first thought was pairing off aggression - but a 45 (or more)
tilt, ore more(?) ............... Frank

  #8  
Old March 13th 06, 12:59 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
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Default Angelfish problem

"Frank" wrote in news:1142112936.060232.245980
@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:

My first thought was pairing off aggression - but a 45 (or more)
tilt, ore more(?) ............... Frank


I've seen young altums really tilt over at least 45 degrees. Especailly in
the 130 gallons at the store when they think I'm going to feed them.

I think the best indicator for mating aggression might be missing fins on
the odd fish out.
  #9  
Old March 13th 06, 09:05 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
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Default Angelfish problem

Neil wrote,
He has no other symptoms or marks and appears to have a
healthy appetite..........


Hi Neil - figure out what's going on with your angelfish yet?
............ Frank

  #10  
Old March 15th 06, 04:46 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
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Default Angelfish problem

On 15 Mar 2006 08:35:08 -0800, "Tynk" wrote:

Now when I'm out buying Angelfish stock I do tend to use the body
shapes as a good guess.


Are you shopping online, or do you have some good suppliers nearby?
-- Mister Gardener
 




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