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Cycle sped up by heat?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 16th 04, 09:12 PM
RedForeman
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Posts: n/a
Default Cycle sped up by heat?

Setting up the new 55g, I filled it, put in heater, connected canister
filter with stock media, let it run for a few days to clear the flourite
cloud. When it was clear, I continued to stir up the bottom a bit to keep
it from worsening later... 5 days later, heater was tested, turned on,
raised the temp up to 70F, let it for a few days, then I started to seed it.
I took the filter media from several other tanks and 'cleaned' them in the
water, making it very murky for a day... next I turned up the heater a
couple degrees each day... After 5 days, the tank was HOT.. it as 84, and I
turned it back down now that it had passed it's test... so to speak.

After the tank returned to 70-72F, I did a water test, with these parameters
pH 7.0 dead on
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
gH - 4
kH - 2

No lights, no fish, nothing.... a total of 13 days. from the time I seeded
it, to the time I tested it... I think I'm cycled... I want to be cycled...
but I don't want to put any fish in until I KNOW.... I've done this once
before, but it was a 10g, and it took 12 days.... Can I be done already? Did
the heat push the cycle ahead full steam???

--
RedForeman
....Red (head hung low) Foreman



  #2  
Old February 16th 04, 11:26 PM
Paul
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Posts: n/a
Default Cycle sped up by heat?


RedForeman wrote in message ...
Setting up the new 55g, I filled it, put in heater, connected canister
filter with stock media, let it run for a few days to clear the flourite
cloud. When it was clear, I continued to stir up the bottom a bit to keep
it from worsening later... 5 days later, heater was tested, turned on,
raised the temp up to 70F, let it for a few days, then I started to seed

it.
I took the filter media from several other tanks and 'cleaned' them in the
water, making it very murky for a day... next I turned up the heater a
couple degrees each day... After 5 days, the tank was HOT.. it as 84, and I
turned it back down now that it had passed it's test... so to speak.

After the tank returned to 70-72F, I did a water test, with these

parameters
pH 7.0 dead on
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
gH - 4
kH - 2

No lights, no fish, nothing.... a total of 13 days. from the time I seeded
it, to the time I tested it... I think I'm cycled... I want to be

cycled...
but I don't want to put any fish in until I KNOW.... I've done this once
before, but it was a 10g, and it took 12 days.... Can I be done already?

Did
the heat push the cycle ahead full steam???

am I missing something something here Red? you didn't mention that you
added any source of ammonia.. how can your tank cycle if it doesn't have
anything to cycle with?


  #3  
Old February 16th 04, 11:35 PM
Eric Schreiber
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Posts: n/a
Default Cycle sped up by heat?

"RedForeman " wrote:

Did the heat push the cycle ahead full steam???


Heat will help speed a cycle. When I did fishless cycling, I actually
ran the tank temp at about 90F.

However, I think in your case the reason you're seeing zero ammonia is
that you haven't ever had any ammonia in the tank. A tank is cycled
when it has an established population of bacteria. You've added
bacteria with the material from other tanks, but unless it's had
ammonia to process, it isn't established.


--
www.ericschreiber.com
  #4  
Old February 17th 04, 02:35 AM
ThangFish
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Default Cycle sped up by heat?

Paul wrote:

am I missing something something here Red? you didn't mention that
you added any source of ammonia.. how can your tank cycle if it
doesn't have anything to cycle with?


I caught that too, but thought that he *surely* just neglected to mention
it.

--
TF

Put my handle in front of the domain name to email.


  #5  
Old February 17th 04, 03:29 AM
Eric Schreiber
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Posts: n/a
Default Cycle sped up by heat?

"ThangFish" wrote:

I caught that too, but thought that he *surely* just neglected to mention
it.


I hope so - Red surely ain't no newbie


--
www.ericschreiber.com
  #6  
Old February 17th 04, 06:09 AM
NetMax
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Default Cycle sped up by heat?


"Eric Schreiber" wrote in message
news
"RedForeman " wrote:

Did the heat push the cycle ahead full steam???


Heat will help speed a cycle. When I did fishless cycling, I actually
ran the tank temp at about 90F.

However, I think in your case the reason you're seeing zero ammonia is
that you haven't ever had any ammonia in the tank. A tank is cycled
when it has an established population of bacteria. You've added
bacteria with the material from other tanks, but unless it's had
ammonia to process, it isn't established.


--
www.ericschreiber.com


Notwithstanding the source of ammonia, I picked this off a site on the
reproduction of nitrifying bacteria:

optimum growth: 77-86F
growth decreases by 50% @ 64F
growth decreased by 75% @ 46-50F
no activity at 39F
death at 32F or 120F

Note that there are many species (?) of bacteria, so it would stand to
reason that the type which reproduces the most in your tank will be to
match your parameters, so if your cycling parameters are very different
from your normal parameters, you might have a die-off as the bacteria
adjust themselves.. at least in theory ;~)

As an example, I wouldn't cycle at above 90F, as it would promote a
higher temperature-tolerant bacteria, who might not prefer your normal
77F.

NetMax


  #7  
Old February 17th 04, 03:28 PM
RedForeman
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Posts: n/a
Default Cycle sped up by heat?

Paul typed:
RedForeman wrote in message
Setting up the new 55g, I filled it, put in heater, connected
canister filter with stock media, let it run for a few days to clear
the flourite cloud. When it was clear, I continued to stir up the
bottom a bit to keep it from worsening later... 5 days later, heater
was tested, turned on, raised the temp up to 70F, let it for a few
days, then I started to seed it. I took the filter media from
several other tanks and 'cleaned' them in the water, making it very
murky for a day... next I turned up the heater a couple degrees each
day... After 5 days, the tank was HOT.. it as 84, and I turned it
back down now that it had passed it's test... so to speak.

After the tank returned to 70-72F, I did a water test, with these
parameters pH 7.0 dead on
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
gH - 4
kH - 2

No lights, no fish, nothing.... a total of 13 days. from the time I
seeded it, to the time I tested it... I think I'm cycled... I want
to be cycled... but I don't want to put any fish in until I KNOW....
I've done this once before, but it was a 10g, and it took 12
days.... Can I be done already? Did the heat push the cycle ahead
full steam???

am I missing something something here Red? you didn't mention that
you added any source of ammonia.. how can your tank cycle if it
doesn't have anything to cycle with?


I promise, I'm as much of a newbie as any of you... I'm only learning...
Every day you guys teach me something, and once in a while I get to help
someone else, that's all...

Well, I actually was trying a non-ammonia, fishless cycling, using filter
cartridges alone, which has worked in the past.... but on a much smaller
scale....10g

All I read about the fishless ammonia cycling just freaks me out... the idea
of using ammonia, albeit proven time and time again, just freaks me out,
thus, I'm using established tanks, filter cartridges, and some waste water
from a 29g where those residents will eventually reside in the new 55g...

--
RedForeman
....Red (head hung low) Foreman



  #8  
Old February 17th 04, 03:31 PM
RedForeman
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Posts: n/a
Default Cycle sped up by heat?

NetMax typed:
"Eric Schreiber" wrote in message
"RedForeman " wrote:

Did the heat push the cycle ahead full steam???


Heat will help speed a cycle. When I did fishless cycling, I actually
ran the tank temp at about 90F.

However, I think in your case the reason you're seeing zero ammonia
is that you haven't ever had any ammonia in the tank. A tank is
cycled when it has an established population of bacteria. You've
added bacteria with the material from other tanks, but unless it's
had ammonia to process, it isn't established.


Ok, so if in a couple days, my seedings don't show any ammonia, I'll pull up
the info and start that process... I was hoping my gunked up cartridges
would dump enough 'stuff' that it would get a jumpstart, I'll recheck the
readings tonite...

Notwithstanding the source of ammonia, I picked this off a site on the
reproduction of nitrifying bacteria:

optimum growth: 77-86F
growth decreases by 50% @ 64F
growth decreased by 75% @ 46-50F
no activity at 39F
death at 32F or 120F

Note that there are many species (?) of bacteria, so it would stand to
reason that the type which reproduces the most in your tank will be to
match your parameters, so if your cycling parameters are very
different from your normal parameters, you might have a die-off as
the bacteria adjust themselves.. at least in theory ;~)

As an example, I wouldn't cycle at above 90F, as it would promote a
higher temperature-tolerant bacteria, who might not prefer your normal
77F.

NetMax


Another good point to be noted... cycle at the temp the tank will run, not a
bad idea....

--
RedForeman
....Red (head hung low) Foreman



  #9  
Old February 17th 04, 05:01 PM
Eric Schreiber
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Posts: n/a
Default Cycle sped up by heat?

"NetMax" wrote:

Note that there are many species (?) of bacteria, so it would stand to
reason that the type which reproduces the most in your tank will be to
match your parameters, so if your cycling parameters are very different
from your normal parameters, you might have a die-off as the bacteria
adjust themselves.. at least in theory ;~)


I certainly didn't do enough research on the subject (nor enough
critical thinking), but I was impatient. It was all I could stand just
to do fishless cycling - what I really wanted was to put way too many
fish in the tank immediately.

Patience has never been my strong suit.

--
www.ericschreiber.com
  #10  
Old February 17th 04, 05:03 PM
Eric Schreiber
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Posts: n/a
Default Cycle sped up by heat?

"RedForeman " wrote:

All I read about the fishless ammonia cycling just freaks me out... the idea
of using ammonia, albeit proven time and time again, just freaks me out,


The only part that worried me was finding clear ammonia without any
additives, which was more difficult than I would have guessed. But
I've got enough now to last the rest of my life.


--
www.ericschreiber.com
 




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