Dodge Caravan 93 3.0l Engine whistles at idle

"maxpower" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Jack Idler" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bill Putney" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Paul Singh wrote:
> > > <severly clipped>
> > > >
> > > > Bloody hell, I can't even pin point where the whistle is coming
from.
> I
> > > > asked my wife to help me locate the area it may be coming from. She
> > seems to
> > > > think it is from the left side of the engine i.e. the surpentine
belt
> > area.
> > > > It is getting to be a challenge now.
> > > >
> > > > I will try your runner hose method and will report.
> > > >
> > > > -Paul
> > >
> > > The noise coming on just as it reaches operating temp, and the fans
> > > being on or not affecting it - what shape is the coolant pressure cap
in
> > > (i.e., does it need replacing?)? Also, the fans coming on could
simply
> > > be changing engine operation enough to cause the noise to stop by
> > > loading the alternator.
> > >
> > > Bill Putney
> > > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> > > adddress with the letter 'x')
> >
> > Some FEAD tensioners use a damping shoe arrangment to tame wierd belt
> > dynamics at idle or with varying loads . I have an older minivan (with
> most
> > likely
> > a worn out damper) that will get into belt squeal at the alternator at
> idle,
> > but the
> > squeal goes away with any amount of increased throttle.....just a small
> shot
> > of
> > spray-on belt dressing will quiet it for days at a time.
> >
> Be careful with that belt dressing, allot of times the belt squeals
because
> of alignment problems, and putting that stuff on my make the belt slide
off
> the tensioner, Not saying that is why yours is squealing
>
>
As I said, "a small shot". If I had ever had a belt jump in this manner, do
you really believe I would have even mentioned it?

We were trying to help the OP find his :"whistle"...not give me a lesson in
belt alignment or other FEAD design issues.

Thanks anyway.

"Paul Singh" > wrote in message
news:u7zUd.43418$EL5.35643@trnddc05...
>
> "maxpower" > wrote in message
> ...
>> it could be a broken intake gasket, if it is a vacuum leak, take a runner
>> hose to your ear and use it as a stethoscope to locate the leak, or at
>> lease
>> eliminate that possibility
>>>
>>
>>
> In between I have cleaned the throttle body, air plennum and fuel
> injectors( new O rings). All the gaskets were
> replaced with the new and the bolts were tightened to the FRM specified
> torques. Lot of black stuff I removed. The whistle was there before and
> still is. I cleaned the intake area because I have never cleaned it in
> over 12 years. So I suspect that is not the cause. Last night I looked at
> it again but nothing positive to report about. I think it may help if I
> explain the symptoms a little more.
>
> a) The whistle only comes when the Engine is at operating temps.
> b) If I come home and sit there for couple of minutes without turning the
> engine off, no whistle.
> c) If I let it idle for few more minutes, whistle yes. If I rev it, it
> goes away. Let it idle, it will come back.
> d) Driving normally, no whistle.
> e) While idling if the radiator fan comes on, whistle goes away. It comes
> back as soon as the fan stops.
> f) I removed the PCV valve suction pipe and put my finger on the PCV valve
> to seal the suction. Nope it didn;t help. I can remove the PCV valve
> completely and then see if the whistle goes away.
>
> Lately I also replaced the thermostat because of the engine code. The
> thermostat I bought is not made by chrysler but got it from Schucks which
> I think is made by prestone. Come to think of it, the whistle was there
> prior to replacing the thermostat.
>
> I tried to locate the vacuum leak. No luck yet. While the engine is
> running I tried removing one vacuum pipe at a time to see if that makes
> any difference. No luck. Well, I haven't tried all of them yet.
>
> The fan belts seem to have proper tension, auto tensioner is free to move
> and has good tension to keep the belt tight. The compressor belt has
> enough tension. I have tried different levels of tension on the compressor
> belt. I would suspect the pulleys if the whistle is there all the time. If
> I start the engine cold, no whistle. It starts suddenly when the temp is
> about to reach the operating level.
>
> Can it be ignition timing related at all ?
>
> Bloody hell, I can't even pin point where the whistle is coming from. I
> asked my wife to help me locate the area it may be coming from. She seems
> to think it is from the left side of the engine i.e. the surpentine belt
> area. It is getting to be a challenge now.
>
> I will try your runner hose method and will report.
>
> -Paul

This sounds so familiar I could cry.. It is coming from the seal in the
water pump. And don't ask me how long it took me to find it the first time I
ran into it. <G> I've ran into this whistle noise exactly as you have
described it two times and the pump has fixed it both times.

Denny

"Bill Putney" > wrote in message
...
> Paul Singh wrote:
>
>> "maxpower" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>it could be a broken intake gasket, if it is a vacuum leak, take a runner
>>>hose to your ear and use it as a stethoscope to locate the leak, or at
>>>lease
>>>eliminate that possibility
>>>
>>>
>> In between I have cleaned the throttle body, air plennum and fuel
>> injectors( new O rings). All the gaskets were
>> replaced with the new and the bolts were tightened to the FRM specified
>> torques. Lot of black stuff I removed. The whistle was there before and
>> still is. I cleaned the intake area because I have never cleaned it in
>> over 12 years. So I suspect that is not the cause. Last night I looked at
>> it again but nothing positive to report about. I think it may help if I
>> explain the symptoms a little more.
>>
>> a) The whistle only comes when the Engine is at operating temps.
>> b) If I come home and sit there for couple of minutes without turning the
>> engine off, no whistle.
>> c) If I let it idle for few more minutes, whistle yes. If I rev it, it
>> goes away. Let it idle, it will come back.
>> d) Driving normally, no whistle.
>> e) While idling if the radiator fan comes on, whistle goes away. It comes
>> back as soon as the fan stops.
>> f) I removed the PCV valve suction pipe and put my finger on the PCV
>> valve to seal the suction. Nope it didn;t help. I can remove the PCV
>> valve completely and then see if the whistle goes away.
>>
>> Lately I also replaced the thermostat because of the engine code. The
>> thermostat I bought is not made by chrysler but got it from Schucks which
>> I think is made by prestone. Come to think of it, the whistle was there
>> prior to replacing the thermostat.
>>
>> I tried to locate the vacuum leak. No luck yet. While the engine is
>> running I tried removing one vacuum pipe at a time to see if that makes
>> any difference. No luck. Well, I haven't tried all of them yet.
>>
>> The fan belts seem to have proper tension, auto tensioner is free to move
>> and has good tension to keep the belt tight. The compressor belt has
>> enough tension. I have tried different levels of tension on the
>> compressor belt. I would suspect the pulleys if the whistle is there all
>> the time. If I start the engine cold, no whistle. It starts suddenly when
>> the temp is about to reach the operating level.
>>
>> Can it be ignition timing related at all ?
>>
>> Bloody hell, I can't even pin point where the whistle is coming from. I
>> asked my wife to help me locate the area it may be coming from. She seems
>> to think it is from the left side of the engine i.e. the surpentine belt
>> area. It is getting to be a challenge now.
>>
>> I will try your runner hose method and will report.
>>
>> -Paul
>
> The noise coming on just as it reaches operating temp, and the fans being
> on or not affecting it - what shape is the coolant pressure cap in (i.e.,
> does it need replacing?)? Also, the fans coming on could simply be
> changing engine operation enough to cause the noise to stop by loading the
> alternator.
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> adddress with the letter 'x')

The cap looks alright. Even though it is the original. But the sound does
not seem to be coming from there or around it.

-Paul

"Jack Idler" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Putney" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Paul Singh wrote:
>> <severly clipped>
>> >
>> > Bloody hell, I can't even pin point where the whistle is coming from. I
>> > asked my wife to help me locate the area it may be coming from. She
> seems to
>> > think it is from the left side of the engine i.e. the surpentine belt
> area.
>> > It is getting to be a challenge now.
>> >
>> > I will try your runner hose method and will report.
>> >
>> > -Paul
>>
>> The noise coming on just as it reaches operating temp, and the fans
>> being on or not affecting it - what shape is the coolant pressure cap in
>> (i.e., does it need replacing?)? Also, the fans coming on could simply
>> be changing engine operation enough to cause the noise to stop by
>> loading the alternator.
>>
>> Bill Putney
>> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>> adddress with the letter 'x')
>
> Some FEAD tensioners use a damping shoe arrangment to tame wierd belt
> dynamics at idle or with varying loads . I have an older minivan (with
> most
> likely
> a worn out damper) that will get into belt squeal at the alternator at
> idle,
> but the
> squeal goes away with any amount of increased throttle.....just a small
> shot
> of
> spray-on belt dressing will quiet it for days at a time.
>
>

I can try to spray some lubricant around the tensioner pulley and the other
end connected to the block. Let's see if that helps.

Thanks.
-Paul

"Denny" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Paul Singh" > wrote in message
> news:u7zUd.43418$EL5.35643@trnddc05...
>>
>> "maxpower" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> it could be a broken intake gasket, if it is a vacuum leak, take a
>>> runner
>>> hose to your ear and use it as a stethoscope to locate the leak, or at
>>> lease
>>> eliminate that possibility
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> In between I have cleaned the throttle body, air plennum and fuel
>> injectors( new O rings). All the gaskets were
>> replaced with the new and the bolts were tightened to the FRM specified
>> torques. Lot of black stuff I removed. The whistle was there before and
>> still is. I cleaned the intake area because I have never cleaned it in
>> over 12 years. So I suspect that is not the cause. Last night I looked at
>> it again but nothing positive to report about. I think it may help if I
>> explain the symptoms a little more.
>>
>> a) The whistle only comes when the Engine is at operating temps.
>> b) If I come home and sit there for couple of minutes without turning the
>> engine off, no whistle.
>> c) If I let it idle for few more minutes, whistle yes. If I rev it, it
>> goes away. Let it idle, it will come back.
>> d) Driving normally, no whistle.
>> e) While idling if the radiator fan comes on, whistle goes away. It comes
>> back as soon as the fan stops.
>> f) I removed the PCV valve suction pipe and put my finger on the PCV
>> valve to seal the suction. Nope it didn;t help. I can remove the PCV
>> valve completely and then see if the whistle goes away.
>>
>> Lately I also replaced the thermostat because of the engine code. The
>> thermostat I bought is not made by chrysler but got it from Schucks which
>> I think is made by prestone. Come to think of it, the whistle was there
>> prior to replacing the thermostat.
>>
>> I tried to locate the vacuum leak. No luck yet. While the engine is
>> running I tried removing one vacuum pipe at a time to see if that makes
>> any difference. No luck. Well, I haven't tried all of them yet.
>>
>> The fan belts seem to have proper tension, auto tensioner is free to move
>> and has good tension to keep the belt tight. The compressor belt has
>> enough tension. I have tried different levels of tension on the
>> compressor belt. I would suspect the pulleys if the whistle is there all
>> the time. If I start the engine cold, no whistle. It starts suddenly when
>> the temp is about to reach the operating level.
>>
>> Can it be ignition timing related at all ?
>>
>> Bloody hell, I can't even pin point where the whistle is coming from. I
>> asked my wife to help me locate the area it may be coming from. She seems
>> to think it is from the left side of the engine i.e. the surpentine belt
>> area. It is getting to be a challenge now.
>>
>> I will try your runner hose method and will report.
>>
>> -Paul
>
> This sounds so familiar I could cry.. It is coming from the seal in the
> water pump. And don't ask me how long it took me to find it the first time
> I ran into it. <G> I've ran into this whistle noise exactly as you have
> described it two times and the pump has fixed it both times.
>
> Denny
>
>

This could very well be the problem because after having spent another hour
or so today, it doesn seem
like it is coming from somewhere obvious and outside around the engine.
Looks like it won't be easy to get to it though.
I will read up on it.

BTW, does it invlove getting to the bloody timing belt ?

-Paul

I replaced the PCV valve with another chrysler made but not a new one. The
bloddy whistle is still there.

-Paul

"Steve" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Check the PCV valve by temporarily removing/bypassing it. Some
> aftermarket valves will whistle like a train.
>

Paul Singh wrote:

>
> ...When the
> fan comes on, it goes away slowly but not abruptly. If the engine was hot,
> it was whistling and I turn the darn thing off and start again, it takes few
> minutes before the whistle comes back and then the whole thing repeats...

That sounds more and more like a cooling system problem (whistle goes
along with gradual pressurization/de-pressurization) - maybe the water
pump thing that was discussed earlier?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

"Paul Singh" > wrote in message
news:JZTUd.16686$QQ3.14828@trnddc02...
>
> "Jack Idler" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bill Putney" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Paul Singh wrote:
> >> <severly clipped>
> >> >
> >> > Bloody hell, I can't even pin point where the whistle is coming from.
I
> >> > asked my wife to help me locate the area it may be coming from. She
> > seems to
> >> > think it is from the left side of the engine i.e. the surpentine belt
> > area.
> >> > It is getting to be a challenge now.
> >> >
> >> > I will try your runner hose method and will report.
> >> >
> >> > -Paul
> >>
> >> The noise coming on just as it reaches operating temp, and the fans
> >> being on or not affecting it - what shape is the coolant pressure cap
in
> >> (i.e., does it need replacing?)? Also, the fans coming on could simply
> >> be changing engine operation enough to cause the noise to stop by
> >> loading the alternator.
> >>
> >> Bill Putney
> >> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> >> adddress with the letter 'x')
> >
> > Some FEAD tensioners use a damping shoe arrangment to tame wierd belt
> > dynamics at idle or with varying loads . I have an older minivan (with
> > most
> > likely
> > a worn out damper) that will get into belt squeal at the alternator at
> > idle,
> > but the
> > squeal goes away with any amount of increased throttle.....just a small
> > shot
> > of
> > spray-on belt dressing will quiet it for days at a time.
> >
> >
>
> I can try to spray some lubricant around the tensioner pulley and the
other
> end connected to the block. Let's see if that helps.
>
> Thanks.
> -Paul
>
> Yup, I have seen that before also with the water pump seal, And I know it
can drive someone nuts. If you had a long piece of heater hose you could
slip it down the front by the timing cover just over the water pump and pick
it up that way with your ear, anyway, good luck

Thanks a lot guys!. Seems like the water pump work is quite involving. I am
going to defer it till summer.

Once again, all of you guys who tried to help, you guys ROCK!!!!

-Paul
"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Paul Singh" > wrote in message
> news:JZTUd.16686$QQ3.14828@trnddc02...
>>
>> "Jack Idler" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Bill Putney" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> Paul Singh wrote:
>> >> <severly clipped>
>> >> >
>> >> > Bloody hell, I can't even pin point where the whistle is coming
>> >> > from.
> I
>> >> > asked my wife to help me locate the area it may be coming from. She
>> > seems to
>> >> > think it is from the left side of the engine i.e. the surpentine
>> >> > belt
>> > area.
>> >> > It is getting to be a challenge now.
>> >> >
>> >> > I will try your runner hose method and will report.
>> >> >
>> >> > -Paul
>> >>
>> >> The noise coming on just as it reaches operating temp, and the fans
>> >> being on or not affecting it - what shape is the coolant pressure cap
> in
>> >> (i.e., does it need replacing?)? Also, the fans coming on could
>> >> simply
>> >> be changing engine operation enough to cause the noise to stop by
>> >> loading the alternator.
>> >>
>> >> Bill Putney
>> >> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>> >> adddress with the letter 'x')
>> >
>> > Some FEAD tensioners use a damping shoe arrangment to tame wierd belt
>> > dynamics at idle or with varying loads . I have an older minivan (with
>> > most
>> > likely
>> > a worn out damper) that will get into belt squeal at the alternator at
>> > idle,
>> > but the
>> > squeal goes away with any amount of increased throttle.....just a small
>> > shot
>> > of
>> > spray-on belt dressing will quiet it for days at a time.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I can try to spray some lubricant around the tensioner pulley and the
> other
>> end connected to the block. Let's see if that helps.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> -Paul
>>
>> Yup, I have seen that before also with the water pump seal, And I know it
> can drive someone nuts. If you had a long piece of heater hose you could
> slip it down the front by the timing cover just over the water pump and
> pick
> it up that way with your ear, anyway, good luck
>
>

Looks like it.

Thanks a lot for trying.

-Paul

"Bill Putney" > wrote in message
...
> Paul Singh wrote:
>
>>
>> ...When the fan comes on, it goes away slowly but not abruptly. If the
>> engine was hot, it was whistling and I turn the darn thing off and start
>> again, it takes few minutes before the whistle comes back and then the
>> whole thing repeats...
>
> That sounds more and more like a cooling system problem (whistle goes
> along with gradual pressurization/de-pressurization) - maybe the water
> pump thing that was discussed earlier?
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> adddress with the letter 'x')