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Alfa SZ?



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 27th 04, 10:07 PM
Alfistagj
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"George Graves" > schreef in bericht
...
> The RZ/SZ site's history is wrong in one respect. It says that the
> engine was a 3.0 liter DUAL overhead cam unit. It was not, it was a
> stock 3.0-liter 'S' engine which was a SINGLE overhead cam motor. Alfa
> didn't have a DOHC V-6 until 1994.
>
> --
> George Graves


George,

In the specification section:
Valve arrangement: V-type overhead. 1 overhead camshaft per bank with
rocker-arms, toothed belt.

In the RZ/SZ "story" section:
The 2959 cc., double overhead camshaft V6 light alloy engine with the banks
set at 60 degrees and conventional 2 valves per cylinder was kept on as the
sole candidate for the SZ.

Where did you read what you quoted??
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
Golden Montreal (1973/4)


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  #12  
Old April 28th 04, 06:52 AM
George Graves
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In article <6Yzjc.10404$EV2.97355@amstwist00>,
"Alfistagj" > wrote:

> "George Graves" > schreef in bericht
> ...
> > The RZ/SZ site's history is wrong in one respect. It says that the
> > engine was a 3.0 liter DUAL overhead cam unit. It was not, it was a
> > stock 3.0-liter 'S' engine which was a SINGLE overhead cam motor. Alfa
> > didn't have a DOHC V-6 until 1994.
> >
> > --
> > George Graves

>
> George,
>
> In the specification section:
> Valve arrangement: V-type overhead. 1 overhead camshaft per bank with
> rocker-arms, toothed belt.
>
> In the RZ/SZ "story" section:
> The 2959 cc., double overhead camshaft V6 light alloy engine with the banks
> set at 60 degrees and conventional 2 valves per cylinder was kept on as the
> sole candidate for the SZ.
>
> Where did you read what you quoted??


Right there what you quoted 'dual overhead camshafts.' In order for a
V-engine to have DOHC, it would have to have two per bank, or at least
that's been the convention as long as I have cared about cars (more than
40 years). One camshaft per bank is a single overhead camshaft engine
which is what the 12-valve Alfa V-6 is.

--
George Graves
------------------
³When I learned to use my new computer and found out what Microsoft Windows XP does best, I felt like I had just paid $700.00 for a deck of cards.²
  #13  
Old April 28th 04, 06:55 AM
George Graves
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In article >,
Catman > wrote:

> George Graves wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > "Gio" > wrote:
> >
> >> > Only officialy available in 2 colours: Red for the SZ, yellow for the
> >> > RZ.
> >>
> >> not that true ..... SZ was officially available only in Red, the RZ
> >> officialy: Yellow, Red, Black ..... then there were some exepctions made
> >> for Mr. Zagato personally (silver RZ and black SZ I think)
> >>
> >>
> >> http://home.wxs.nl/~evdbeek/monster.html <= many many informations on
> >> the Mostro di Milano

> >
> > The RZ/SZ site's history is wrong in one respect. It says that the
> > engine was a 3.0 liter DUAL overhead cam unit. It was not, it was a
> > stock 3.0-liter 'S' engine which was a SINGLE overhead cam motor. Alfa
> > didn't have a DOHC V-6 until 1994.
> >

> Well, to be fair, there *are* two cams


I understand. But the convention in V engines, as long as I have been
interested in cars (more than 40 years) is to refer to the number of
cams per bank as the deciding element in the distinction between DOHC
and SOHC. Yeah, it's semantics, but to someone who doesn't know these
engines, it could be misleading.

--
George Graves
------------------
"When I learned to use my new computer and found out what Microsoft Windows XP does best, I felt like I had just paid $700.00 for a deck of cards."
  #14  
Old April 28th 04, 10:57 AM
Catman
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On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 05:55:36 GMT, George Graves
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Catman > wrote:
>
>> George Graves wrote:
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > "Gio" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> > Only officialy available in 2 colours: Red for the SZ, yellow for the
>> >> > RZ.
>> >>
>> >> not that true ..... SZ was officially available only in Red, the RZ
>> >> officialy: Yellow, Red, Black ..... then there were some exepctions made
>> >> for Mr. Zagato personally (silver RZ and black SZ I think)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://home.wxs.nl/~evdbeek/monster.html <= many many informations on
>> >> the Mostro di Milano
>> >
>> > The RZ/SZ site's history is wrong in one respect. It says that the
>> > engine was a 3.0 liter DUAL overhead cam unit. It was not, it was a
>> > stock 3.0-liter 'S' engine which was a SINGLE overhead cam motor. Alfa
>> > didn't have a DOHC V-6 until 1994.
>> >

>> Well, to be fair, there *are* two cams

>
>I understand. But the convention in V engines, as long as I have been
>interested in cars (more than 40 years) is to refer to the number of
>cams per bank as the deciding element in the distinction between DOHC
>and SOHC. Yeah, it's semantics, but to someone who doesn't know these
>engines, it could be misleading.


I agree 100%, I *was* only teasing

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #15  
Old April 28th 04, 10:58 AM
Catman
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On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:16:59 +0200, "Antti" >
wrote:

>
>"Pete" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:47:31 +0100, Tom Boltwood >,
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Rocking horse ****. Never seen one myself, although Catman's photos

>suggest
>> >there are more of them than I thought. They must be the only ones in the
>> >country.

>> Register says there are 60 odd in the UK. There was a nice line of them
>> at the Alfa Day a couple of years ago. Personally I prefer the TZ.

>
>heh I visited UK in 99 and saw 2 SZ during 2 weeks.


I've only ever seen one on the road, not counting journeys to and from
National Alfa day

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

  #16  
Old April 28th 04, 11:01 AM
Catman
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On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:12:32 +0200, "Gio"
> wrote:

>
>> Only officialy available in 2 colours: Red for the SZ, yellow for the
>> RZ.

>
> not that true ..... SZ was officially available only in Red, the RZ
>officialy: Yellow, Red, Black


Wow. Never seen a RZ in anything other than yellow. Seen one black
SZ. Been told *many* times that red and yellow were all there were.
Fascinating stuff this

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #17  
Old April 28th 04, 07:06 PM
Alfistagj
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"George Graves" > schreef in bericht
...
>
> Right there what you quoted 'dual overhead camshafts.' In order for a
> V-engine to have DOHC, it would have to have two per bank, or at least
> that's been the convention as long as I have cared about cars (more than
> 40 years). One camshaft per bank is a single overhead camshaft engine
> which is what the 12-valve Alfa V-6 is.
>
> --
> George Graves
> ------------------


I raised the question because of the word "dual".
Being in the business just 5 years shorter than you, I had never heard of
(or read about) DUAL OHC, that's why I asked.
Indeed DOHC - double over head camshafts which is 2 (two) can shafts on one
cylinder row.
Alfa's V6 indeed is a S(ingle)OHC engine
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
Golden Montreal (1973/4)



  #18  
Old April 28th 04, 09:38 PM
George Graves
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
Catman > wrote:

> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 05:55:36 GMT, George Graves
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Catman > wrote:
> >
> >> George Graves wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Gio" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> > Only officialy available in 2 colours: Red for the SZ, yellow for the
> >> >> > RZ.
> >> >>
> >> >> not that true ..... SZ was officially available only in Red, the RZ
> >> >> officialy: Yellow, Red, Black ..... then there were some exepctions
> >> >> made
> >> >> for Mr. Zagato personally (silver RZ and black SZ I think)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> http://home.wxs.nl/~evdbeek/monster.html <= many many informations
> >> >> on
> >> >> the Mostro di Milano
> >> >
> >> > The RZ/SZ site's history is wrong in one respect. It says that the
> >> > engine was a 3.0 liter DUAL overhead cam unit. It was not, it was a
> >> > stock 3.0-liter 'S' engine which was a SINGLE overhead cam motor. Alfa
> >> > didn't have a DOHC V-6 until 1994.
> >> >
> >> Well, to be fair, there *are* two cams

> >
> >I understand. But the convention in V engines, as long as I have been
> >interested in cars (more than 40 years) is to refer to the number of
> >cams per bank as the deciding element in the distinction between DOHC
> >and SOHC. Yeah, it's semantics, but to someone who doesn't know these
> >engines, it could be misleading.

>
> I agree 100%, I *was* only teasing


OK.

--
George Graves
------------------
"When I learned to use my new computer and found out what Microsoft Windows XP does best, I felt like I had just paid $700.00 for a deck of cards."
  #19  
Old April 28th 04, 09:40 PM
George Graves
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article <qoSjc.10561$EV2.97404@amstwist00>,
"Alfistagj" > wrote:

> "George Graves" > schreef in bericht
> ...
> >
> > Right there what you quoted 'dual overhead camshafts.' In order for a
> > V-engine to have DOHC, it would have to have two per bank, or at least
> > that's been the convention as long as I have cared about cars (more than
> > 40 years). One camshaft per bank is a single overhead camshaft engine
> > which is what the 12-valve Alfa V-6 is.
> >
> > --
> > George Graves
> > ------------------

>
> I raised the question because of the word "dual".
> Being in the business just 5 years shorter than you, I had never heard of
> (or read about) DUAL OHC, that's why I asked.
> Indeed DOHC - double over head camshafts which is 2 (two) can shafts on one
> cylinder row.
> Alfa's V6 indeed is a S(ingle)OHC engine


OK, I see where you could get confused. We arrogant Americans sometimes
forget that English isn't everybody's first language, so please forgive
me.

--
George Graves
------------------
³When I learned to use my new computer and found out what Microsoft Windows XP does best, I felt like I had just paid $700.00 for a deck of cards.²
  #20  
Old April 28th 04, 09:54 PM
Alfistagj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"George Graves" > schreef in bericht
...
>
> OK, I see where you could get confused. We arrogant Americans sometimes
> forget that English isn't everybody's first language, so please forgive
> me.
>
> --
> George Graves
> ------------------



A bit off topic, but to illustrate the language problem:
I'm from The Netherlands (maybe you guessed already......) and
professionally involved in international b2b sales.
We sell products that come in 2 versions, a CNC operated version and a
manually operated version.
Both come with the same 100 page "Operating and maintenance manual".
Not once, but nummerous times, specifically our USA customers, who had
bought the "CNC" version, complained to have received the wrong "book" as
they didn't have a "manual" version but a "CNC" one..................
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
Golden Montreal (1973/4)



 




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