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'90 Civic: Extremely sluggish low-end acceleration, poor fuel economy



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 19th 05, 07:29 PM
Bruce
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Default '90 Civic: Extremely sluggish low-end acceleration, poor fuel economy

A few more issues from my poor little car for anyone who can shed some
light...

My '90 5-spd Civic Ex has been bogging down at low RPMs since I bought
it last fall. When I accelerate from a dead stop I have to goose it to
about 2500rpm and then pop the clutch a bit to get it to take off as
quick as I think it should. Especially in an up-hill situation. (no AC)

If I drive it like other small manual 4-bangers I've owned (Corollas,
etc), it will literally take 5-10 secs to get to the point where I
think I should shift to 2nd. Gas pedal down half way or floored makes
no difference. Also, doesn't matter if the car is at temp or just
started. After 1st gear and I'm moving a bit, there's no problem. I
seem to remember reading about a potentiometer (maybe in the throttle?
can't remember the details) that, if the contacts were dirty, would
cause this type of thing. Maybe I'm just crazy and I dreamed this....

I'm also getting only about 15-18mpg in town and 20-23mpg hwy this
summer... seems incredibly low. Was getting the same last winter, but
wrote it off to cold weather. Spark plugs are about a year old, newish
air filter, and OEM O2 sensor's only 6 months old.

ECU's not throwing any codes.

-Back pressure too low/high? (bad catalytic converter?)
-Bad plug wires? (I'm sure they're not Honda OEM wires, but I think
they're only about a year old)
-Clogged EFI?
-Timing out of adjustment? I didn't fool with the dist. when I changed
the timing belt, mostly because I couldn't find a damn marking anywhere
on the crankshaft pully to save my life. Ran like a top after the belt
change, so I'm confident it's not a tooth off...

HELP!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

Regards,
-Bruce

Ads
  #2  
Old July 19th 05, 11:46 PM
Elle
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Default

That mileage is pathetic.

When's the last time you replaced the PCV valve? I replaced mine on my 91
Civic for the first time (way overdue) two years ago, and the mileage shot
up.

The plug wires?

Fuel filter?

Air filter?

All of these are easy to do, inexpensive, and could be a part of, if not
the, problem.

"Bruce" > wrote
> A few more issues from my poor little car for anyone who can shed some
> light...
>
> My '90 5-spd Civic Ex has been bogging down at low RPMs since I bought
> it last fall. When I accelerate from a dead stop I have to goose it to
> about 2500rpm and then pop the clutch a bit to get it to take off as
> quick as I think it should. Especially in an up-hill situation. (no AC)
>
> If I drive it like other small manual 4-bangers I've owned (Corollas,
> etc), it will literally take 5-10 secs to get to the point where I
> think I should shift to 2nd. Gas pedal down half way or floored makes
> no difference. Also, doesn't matter if the car is at temp or just
> started. After 1st gear and I'm moving a bit, there's no problem. I
> seem to remember reading about a potentiometer (maybe in the throttle?
> can't remember the details) that, if the contacts were dirty, would
> cause this type of thing. Maybe I'm just crazy and I dreamed this....
>
> I'm also getting only about 15-18mpg in town and 20-23mpg hwy this
> summer... seems incredibly low. Was getting the same last winter, but
> wrote it off to cold weather. Spark plugs are about a year old, newish
> air filter, and OEM O2 sensor's only 6 months old.
>
> ECU's not throwing any codes.
>
> -Back pressure too low/high? (bad catalytic converter?)
> -Bad plug wires? (I'm sure they're not Honda OEM wires, but I think
> they're only about a year old)
> -Clogged EFI?
> -Timing out of adjustment? I didn't fool with the dist. when I changed
> the timing belt, mostly because I couldn't find a damn marking anywhere
> on the crankshaft pully to save my life. Ran like a top after the belt
> change, so I'm confident it's not a tooth off...
>
> HELP!
>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated...
>
> Regards,
> -Bruce
>



  #3  
Old July 20th 05, 02:23 AM
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default

Bruce wrote:
> A few more issues from my poor little car for anyone who can shed some
> light...
>
> My '90 5-spd Civic Ex has been bogging down at low RPMs since I bought
> it last fall. When I accelerate from a dead stop I have to goose it to
> about 2500rpm and then pop the clutch a bit to get it to take off as
> quick as I think it should. Especially in an up-hill situation. (no AC)
>
> If I drive it like other small manual 4-bangers I've owned (Corollas,
> etc), it will literally take 5-10 secs to get to the point where I
> think I should shift to 2nd. Gas pedal down half way or floored makes
> no difference. Also, doesn't matter if the car is at temp or just
> started. After 1st gear and I'm moving a bit, there's no problem. I
> seem to remember reading about a potentiometer (maybe in the throttle?
> can't remember the details) that, if the contacts were dirty, would
> cause this type of thing. Maybe I'm just crazy and I dreamed this....
>
> I'm also getting only about 15-18mpg in town and 20-23mpg hwy this
> summer... seems incredibly low. Was getting the same last winter, but
> wrote it off to cold weather. Spark plugs are about a year old, newish
> air filter, and OEM O2 sensor's only 6 months old.
>
> ECU's not throwing any codes.
>
> -Back pressure too low/high? (bad catalytic converter?)
> -Bad plug wires? (I'm sure they're not Honda OEM wires, but I think
> they're only about a year old)
> -Clogged EFI?
> -Timing out of adjustment? I didn't fool with the dist. when I changed
> the timing belt, mostly because I couldn't find a damn marking anywhere
> on the crankshaft pully to save my life. Ran like a top after the belt
> change, so I'm confident it's not a tooth off...


this is confusing - it's run bad since you got it? but it ran great
after you changed the belt, now runs bad again? if that's true, check
your timing belt, it's probably skipped a tooth.

>
> HELP!
>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated...
>
> Regards,
> -Bruce
>


  #4  
Old July 20th 05, 04:04 PM
Bruce
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Default

Sorry.... that was kind of vague.

What I meant is that it runs great except for this 1st gear hesitation,
but that it's done it since day one. There was no difference
what-so-ever after the T-belt job. It starts on the first crank every
time, idles great and drives very smoothly (always has) except for the
sluggishness in 1st gear in low RPMs.

  #5  
Old July 20th 05, 04:08 PM
Bruce
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Default

Do Honda plug wires make that much of a difference? What about brands
of plugs? The wires I have now are the most expensive ones at Autozone
and the plugs were about $2 each IIRC.

Air filter is only a few months old, doesn't look dirty at all.

I've heard the fuel filter is an easy job, but I've never done one
before. Where is it located and what does it look like? I guess if I
just buy one it will help me find it. I think my Haynes manual says
it's on the firewall, but it also states that the fuel pressure must be
released to do this, and it's pretty vague about that procedure.

Thanks

  #6  
Old July 20th 05, 04:16 PM
Bruce
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I checked the PCV valve a few weeks ago... I was told if the bead
inside is loose, it's ok. I blew some degreaser through it just to be
sure, but there is no moisture build-up in the crank case. I guess for
a $3 part I might as well get a new one, but I don't think it's the
problem.

Do Honda plug wires make that much of a difference? What about brands
of plugs? The wires I have now are the most expensive ones at Autozone
and the plugs were about $2 each IIRC.


Air filter is only a few months old, doesn't look dirty at all.


I've heard the fuel filter is an easy job, but I've never done one
before. Where is it located and what does it look like? I guess if I
just buy one it will help me find it. I think my Haynes manual says
it's on the firewall, but it also states that the fuel pressure must be

released to do this, and it's pretty vague about that procedure.


Thanks

  #7  
Old July 20th 05, 06:11 PM
Elle
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Default

"Bruce" > wrote
> I checked the PCV valve a few weeks ago... I was told if the bead
> inside is loose, it's ok.


I don't buy this. There's a spring in there and it will lose its optimum
effectiveness over time, despite the little test one can do to hear the bead
operate the valve. The valve is a control valve, meaning it often operates
somewhere between fully open and fully shut, so the spring's integrity
should be vital.

Particularly if it's the original PCV valve, I would replace it. Just one
easy thing to eliminate.

> I blew some degreaser through it just to be
> sure, but there is no moisture build-up in the crank case.


Now I fully remove my Civic's PCV valve once a year and spray PB Blaster
into it.

> I guess for
> a $3 part I might as well get a new one, but I don't think it's the
> problem.


Buy the OEM PCV valve for around $20 at your dealer's. Word on the street is
that the non-OEM versions are not good.

> Do Honda plug wires make that much of a difference?


My understanding is yes. Buy the OEM plug wires. (I am frugal, by the way,
but over the years I've learned my lesson on certain Honda engine parts and
find the extra bucks laid out now saves me trouble later.)

> What about brands
> of plugs?


Buy what the owner's manual recommends. My 91 Civic manual lists the exact
plugs for three different manufacturers (NGK, ND, and Champion). I don't
think platinum makes any noticeable difference, so don't let the salesperson
at Autozone or wherever talk you into the platinum version unless you think
it's cost-effective and/or improves performance.

I think NGK is popular and a safe bet among people here.

> The wires I have now are the most expensive ones at Autozone


Lose these.

> and the plugs were about $2 each IIRC.
>
>
> Air filter is only a few months old, doesn't look dirty at all.


Sounds good.

> I've heard the fuel filter is an easy job, but I've never done one
> before. Where is it located and what does it look like? I guess if I
> just buy one it will help me find it.


Yes.

> I think my Haynes manual says
> it's on the firewall,


That's where it is on my 1991 Civic.

> but it also states that the fuel pressure must be
>
> released to do this, and it's pretty vague about that procedure.


Autozone should have a free online repair guide for your Civic that matches
Chilton's. The Chilton manuals are better than Haynes, in my experience.

Or go to http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/ConcertoManual/index.html. Go to the
"Fuel and Emissions" sections, and click on "fuel filter." There's a drawing
there that may help. The Concerto engine is very similar, if not identical,
to the early 1990s Civic engines. The torque specs vary, though, so you
should go to Autozone or get a Chilton's to get the exact torque specs for
your fuel filter.

Many years ago during the first time I replaced the filter, I found getting
the bolts loose a little tricky. I had to find ways to brace wrenches etc. I
also didn't have the best wrenches for the job. Now I do. Having done this
four or five times, it's now a piece of cake.

It's not hard nor particularly dangerous to release the fuel pressure. One
just slowly loosens what is called the service bolt on the top of the
filter, holding a rag around it, so some gasoline leaks out and relieves
pressure.

As I trust you can imagine, these are all regular maintenance items, so by
doing them, you haven't really wasted money, and you've narrowed down what's
behind your Civic's problems.



  #8  
Old July 20th 05, 11:15 PM
TeGGeR®
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"Bruce" > wrote in
ups.com:

> I checked the PCV valve a few weeks ago... I was told if the bead
> inside is loose, it's ok. I blew some degreaser through it just to be
> sure, but there is no moisture build-up in the crank case. I guess for
> a $3 part I might as well get a new one, but I don't think it's the
> problem.



It's not. And unless it's aftermarket, there's no "bead", just a plunger
and spring.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
  #9  
Old July 21st 05, 05:09 AM
TeGGeR®
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Default

"Elle" > wrote in
ink.net:

> "Bruce" > wrote
>> I checked the PCV valve a few weeks ago... I was told if the bead
>> inside is loose, it's ok.

>
> I don't buy this. There's a spring in there and it will lose its
> optimum effectiveness over time, despite the little test one can do to
> hear the bead operate the valve. The valve is a control valve, meaning
> it often operates somewhere between fully open and fully shut, so the
> spring's integrity should be vital.
>
> Particularly if it's the original PCV valve, I would replace it. Just
> one easy thing to eliminate.




I fianlly replaced my original a few weeks ago. It had 14 years and 248,000
miles on it. Didn't make a bit of difference to gas consumption or engine
running.

New FAQ page on that saga:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/pcv-replace/index.html

Pics are part-way down.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
  #10  
Old July 21st 05, 05:27 AM
jim beam
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Default

Bruce wrote:
> Sorry.... that was kind of vague.
>
> What I meant is that it runs great except for this 1st gear hesitation,
> but that it's done it since day one. There was no difference
> what-so-ever after the T-belt job. It starts on the first crank every
> time, idles great and drives very smoothly (always has) except for the
> sluggishness in 1st gear in low RPMs.
>

automatic or stick?

if automatic, ensure the timing is correct, clean out the egr valve and
replace the thermostat.

 




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