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Light bulb question -- Daniel Stern?



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 31st 04, 05:09 AM
Daniel J. Stern
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On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Shep wrote:

> Amen on the short lived Silstar, went thru a set in 7 months on my chev.
> trailblazer, bitched to them, got another set on warranty, 7 months later,
> one right after another. It's a shame because they were good, and the
> stockers stink.


The Sylvania Silverstars make your headlamps put out *less* light. The
impression you got that they're "brighter" is nothing more than an optical
illusion.

So no, it's not a shame.
Ads
  #12  
Old October 31st 04, 06:56 PM
Jim
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"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message in.umich.edu>...
> Whoops, see below. Shows what happens when I try to post in "food coma"
> mode after having just eaten a large dinner.
>
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Minnie Bannister wrote:
> >
> > > Went to the Sylvania Web site to see whether XtraVision bulbs are
> > > available for my 300M (they aren't) and looked at the comparison chart
> > > for Standard, XtraVision, Cool Blue, and SilverStar. I was surprised to
> > > see that for a given bulb type (e.g., 9004, 9005, 9006) they quote the
> > > same light output in lumens no matter whether it's a Standard or an
> > > XtraVision! So how come they claim that XtraVision are "brighter"?

> >
> > Sylvania primarily lists *NOMINAL* output, not actual, in their materials.
> > Nominal output is the legal spec contained in Federal code 49CFR564. The
> > spec for each bulb contains a nominal flux as well as the allowable
> > tolerance range as either a plus-minus percentage or an absolute maximum.
> > Take a look for yourself he
> > http://fmvss108.tripod.com/light_source_list.htm and you'll see how
> > coincidentally all those Sylvania bulbs just happen to (be claimed to
> > produce) exactly the nominal value, right on the nose. Quoting nominal
> > values is the same as saying "These bulbs are all legal". Sure they are,
> > but nominal values do not describe the differences in performance amongst
> > the different bulbs.

>
> All the above is fine.
>
> Corrections below in all-caps
>
> > Can you think of a reason why Silverstar (which produces near the LOW
> > end of the legal output) and XTRAVISION (which produces near the HIGH
> > end) would be quoted at nominal rather than actual? I can. I can also
> > think of a reason why Sylvania would field a gimmicky, expensive,
> > short-lived, low-performing Silverstar for your 300M but *not* a
> > higher-performing, non-gimmicky, longer-lived, less-expensive
> > Xtravision.


Another victim of inadquate headlights here.. 97 Sebring convertible.
So I replace the headlight bulbs with Xtravisions and make sure
they're aimed correctly. I'd like to find a set of aftermarket fog
lights for the car.. only mounting location is the factory holes in
the bumper. Looking to improve lighting right in front of the car,
ditches and road markings. Would also consider a dual filament light
to improve distance lighting with high beams.

Just trying to see better at night..

I have used high wattage bulbs in other vehicles.. I am led to
believe that it's not a good idea with these headlights.. why?

Thanks,

Jim
  #13  
Old October 31st 04, 06:56 PM
Jim
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message in.umich.edu>...
> Whoops, see below. Shows what happens when I try to post in "food coma"
> mode after having just eaten a large dinner.
>
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Minnie Bannister wrote:
> >
> > > Went to the Sylvania Web site to see whether XtraVision bulbs are
> > > available for my 300M (they aren't) and looked at the comparison chart
> > > for Standard, XtraVision, Cool Blue, and SilverStar. I was surprised to
> > > see that for a given bulb type (e.g., 9004, 9005, 9006) they quote the
> > > same light output in lumens no matter whether it's a Standard or an
> > > XtraVision! So how come they claim that XtraVision are "brighter"?

> >
> > Sylvania primarily lists *NOMINAL* output, not actual, in their materials.
> > Nominal output is the legal spec contained in Federal code 49CFR564. The
> > spec for each bulb contains a nominal flux as well as the allowable
> > tolerance range as either a plus-minus percentage or an absolute maximum.
> > Take a look for yourself he
> > http://fmvss108.tripod.com/light_source_list.htm and you'll see how
> > coincidentally all those Sylvania bulbs just happen to (be claimed to
> > produce) exactly the nominal value, right on the nose. Quoting nominal
> > values is the same as saying "These bulbs are all legal". Sure they are,
> > but nominal values do not describe the differences in performance amongst
> > the different bulbs.

>
> All the above is fine.
>
> Corrections below in all-caps
>
> > Can you think of a reason why Silverstar (which produces near the LOW
> > end of the legal output) and XTRAVISION (which produces near the HIGH
> > end) would be quoted at nominal rather than actual? I can. I can also
> > think of a reason why Sylvania would field a gimmicky, expensive,
> > short-lived, low-performing Silverstar for your 300M but *not* a
> > higher-performing, non-gimmicky, longer-lived, less-expensive
> > Xtravision.


Another victim of inadquate headlights here.. 97 Sebring convertible.
So I replace the headlight bulbs with Xtravisions and make sure
they're aimed correctly. I'd like to find a set of aftermarket fog
lights for the car.. only mounting location is the factory holes in
the bumper. Looking to improve lighting right in front of the car,
ditches and road markings. Would also consider a dual filament light
to improve distance lighting with high beams.

Just trying to see better at night..

I have used high wattage bulbs in other vehicles.. I am led to
believe that it's not a good idea with these headlights.. why?

Thanks,

Jim
  #14  
Old October 31st 04, 08:38 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Jim wrote:

> Another victim of inadquate headlights here.. 97 Sebring convertible.
> So I replace the headlight bulbs with Xtravisions and make sure
> they're aimed correctly.


That's about all you can do with those headlamps.

> I'd like to find a set of aftermarket fog lights for the car.. only
> mounting location is the factory holes in the bumper. Looking to improve
> lighting right in front of the car, ditches and road markings.


Bosch Compact 100s have a particularly useful beam pattern for what you're
trying to do and should fit the factory holes without much difficulty.
They are 100mm (4") diameter.

> Would also consider a dual filament light to improve distance lighting
> with high beams.


There is exactly one dual-function fog/driving lamp worth a damn. It is
enormous (8-3/4" diameter) and works well on very large vehicles used off
road. For on-road use, a low-mounted driving lamp is only slightly less
useless than a high-mounted fog lamp.

> I have used high wattage bulbs in other vehicles.. I am led to believe
> that it's not a good idea with these headlights.. why?


The wiring is barely adequate for stock wattage, let alone
overwattage,though that can be fixed with relays and heavy-gauge wires.
The unsolvable problems a

-This is a small headlamp with a reflector made out of low-grade plastic.
It cannot handle the extra heat of an overwattage bulb and will deform,
melt and/or burn.

-The beam pattern is poorly formed. There is too much uplight and too much
upward stray light, and glare is relatively high -- all with a stock bulb.
If you put in an overwattage bulb, you will not make the beam pattern any
less worse, you will only aggravate the glare and backdazzle problems.

-No decent factories manufacture overwattage 9007 bulbs, so what's
available is crap made in the 3rd world. Filament placement is stinkin';
fractions of a millimetre make enormous differences in beam pattern
formation.

So, don't use 'em.

dastern "at" danielsternlighting "dot" com if you have questions or
anything.
  #15  
Old October 31st 04, 08:38 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Jim wrote:

> Another victim of inadquate headlights here.. 97 Sebring convertible.
> So I replace the headlight bulbs with Xtravisions and make sure
> they're aimed correctly.


That's about all you can do with those headlamps.

> I'd like to find a set of aftermarket fog lights for the car.. only
> mounting location is the factory holes in the bumper. Looking to improve
> lighting right in front of the car, ditches and road markings.


Bosch Compact 100s have a particularly useful beam pattern for what you're
trying to do and should fit the factory holes without much difficulty.
They are 100mm (4") diameter.

> Would also consider a dual filament light to improve distance lighting
> with high beams.


There is exactly one dual-function fog/driving lamp worth a damn. It is
enormous (8-3/4" diameter) and works well on very large vehicles used off
road. For on-road use, a low-mounted driving lamp is only slightly less
useless than a high-mounted fog lamp.

> I have used high wattage bulbs in other vehicles.. I am led to believe
> that it's not a good idea with these headlights.. why?


The wiring is barely adequate for stock wattage, let alone
overwattage,though that can be fixed with relays and heavy-gauge wires.
The unsolvable problems a

-This is a small headlamp with a reflector made out of low-grade plastic.
It cannot handle the extra heat of an overwattage bulb and will deform,
melt and/or burn.

-The beam pattern is poorly formed. There is too much uplight and too much
upward stray light, and glare is relatively high -- all with a stock bulb.
If you put in an overwattage bulb, you will not make the beam pattern any
less worse, you will only aggravate the glare and backdazzle problems.

-No decent factories manufacture overwattage 9007 bulbs, so what's
available is crap made in the 3rd world. Filament placement is stinkin';
fractions of a millimetre make enormous differences in beam pattern
formation.

So, don't use 'em.

dastern "at" danielsternlighting "dot" com if you have questions or
anything.
  #16  
Old November 1st 04, 04:42 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Daniel, I don't understand. I have Silver Stars in my 97 Cherokee
Sport and My 96 Plymouth Grand Voyager. They are definitely a big
improvement over stock. Why do you say they put out less light and
it's only an illusion that they are brighter?



On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:09:32 -0400, "Daniel J. Stern"
> wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Shep wrote:
>
>> Amen on the short lived Silstar, went thru a set in 7 months on my chev.
>> trailblazer, bitched to them, got another set on warranty, 7 months later,
>> one right after another. It's a shame because they were good, and the
>> stockers stink.

>
>The Sylvania Silverstars make your headlamps put out *less* light. The
>impression you got that they're "brighter" is nothing more than an optical
>illusion.
>
>So no, it's not a shame.


  #17  
Old November 1st 04, 04:42 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Daniel, I don't understand. I have Silver Stars in my 97 Cherokee
Sport and My 96 Plymouth Grand Voyager. They are definitely a big
improvement over stock. Why do you say they put out less light and
it's only an illusion that they are brighter?



On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:09:32 -0400, "Daniel J. Stern"
> wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Shep wrote:
>
>> Amen on the short lived Silstar, went thru a set in 7 months on my chev.
>> trailblazer, bitched to them, got another set on warranty, 7 months later,
>> one right after another. It's a shame because they were good, and the
>> stockers stink.

>
>The Sylvania Silverstars make your headlamps put out *less* light. The
>impression you got that they're "brighter" is nothing more than an optical
>illusion.
>
>So no, it's not a shame.


  #18  
Old November 1st 04, 12:33 PM
Jim
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message in.umich.edu>...
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Jim wrote:
>
> > Another victim of inadquate headlights here.. 97 Sebring convertible.
> > So I replace the headlight bulbs with Xtravisions and make sure
> > they're aimed correctly.

>
> That's about all you can do with those headlamps.


Well.. lets not forget buff/polish the plastic lenses every few weeks
to remove the haze.. *nice* job Chrysler..

>
> > I'd like to find a set of aftermarket fog lights for the car.. only
> > mounting location is the factory holes in the bumper. Looking to improve
> > lighting right in front of the car, ditches and road markings.

>
> Bosch Compact 100s have a particularly useful beam pattern for what you're
> trying to do and should fit the factory holes without much difficulty.
> They are 100mm (4") diameter.


I'll look into them..

>
> > Would also consider a dual filament light to improve distance lighting
> > with high beams.

>
> There is exactly one dual-function fog/driving lamp worth a damn. It is
> enormous (8-3/4" diameter) and works well on very large vehicles used off
> road. For on-road use, a low-mounted driving lamp is only slightly less
> useless than a high-mounted fog lamp.


Lets hear it for Oscar the Super?.. I considered them before I
realized that they would require the 'saws-all' install method.


> > I have used high wattage bulbs in other vehicles.. I am led to believe
> > that it's not a good idea with these headlights.. why?

>
> The wiring is barely adequate for stock wattage, let alone
> overwattage,though that can be fixed with relays and heavy-gauge wires.
> The unsolvable problems a
>
> -This is a small headlamp with a reflector made out of low-grade plastic.
> It cannot handle the extra heat of an overwattage bulb and will deform,
> melt and/or burn.
>
> -The beam pattern is poorly formed. There is too much uplight and too much
> upward stray light, and glare is relatively high -- all with a stock bulb.
> If you put in an overwattage bulb, you will not make the beam pattern any
> less worse, you will only aggravate the glare and backdazzle problems.
>
> -No decent factories manufacture overwattage 9007 bulbs, so what's
> available is crap made in the 3rd world. Filament placement is stinkin';
> fractions of a millimetre make enormous differences in beam pattern
> formation.
>
> So, don't use 'em.


Appreciate the answers.. one more question. At what voltage drop do
you consider re-wiring the headlight circuit?..

Regards,

Jim
  #19  
Old November 1st 04, 12:33 PM
Jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message in.umich.edu>...
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Jim wrote:
>
> > Another victim of inadquate headlights here.. 97 Sebring convertible.
> > So I replace the headlight bulbs with Xtravisions and make sure
> > they're aimed correctly.

>
> That's about all you can do with those headlamps.


Well.. lets not forget buff/polish the plastic lenses every few weeks
to remove the haze.. *nice* job Chrysler..

>
> > I'd like to find a set of aftermarket fog lights for the car.. only
> > mounting location is the factory holes in the bumper. Looking to improve
> > lighting right in front of the car, ditches and road markings.

>
> Bosch Compact 100s have a particularly useful beam pattern for what you're
> trying to do and should fit the factory holes without much difficulty.
> They are 100mm (4") diameter.


I'll look into them..

>
> > Would also consider a dual filament light to improve distance lighting
> > with high beams.

>
> There is exactly one dual-function fog/driving lamp worth a damn. It is
> enormous (8-3/4" diameter) and works well on very large vehicles used off
> road. For on-road use, a low-mounted driving lamp is only slightly less
> useless than a high-mounted fog lamp.


Lets hear it for Oscar the Super?.. I considered them before I
realized that they would require the 'saws-all' install method.


> > I have used high wattage bulbs in other vehicles.. I am led to believe
> > that it's not a good idea with these headlights.. why?

>
> The wiring is barely adequate for stock wattage, let alone
> overwattage,though that can be fixed with relays and heavy-gauge wires.
> The unsolvable problems a
>
> -This is a small headlamp with a reflector made out of low-grade plastic.
> It cannot handle the extra heat of an overwattage bulb and will deform,
> melt and/or burn.
>
> -The beam pattern is poorly formed. There is too much uplight and too much
> upward stray light, and glare is relatively high -- all with a stock bulb.
> If you put in an overwattage bulb, you will not make the beam pattern any
> less worse, you will only aggravate the glare and backdazzle problems.
>
> -No decent factories manufacture overwattage 9007 bulbs, so what's
> available is crap made in the 3rd world. Filament placement is stinkin';
> fractions of a millimetre make enormous differences in beam pattern
> formation.
>
> So, don't use 'em.


Appreciate the answers.. one more question. At what voltage drop do
you consider re-wiring the headlight circuit?..

Regards,

Jim
  #20  
Old November 1st 04, 02:45 PM
Richard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> wrote in message
...
> Daniel, I don't understand. I have Silver Stars in my 97 Cherokee
> Sport and My 96 Plymouth Grand Voyager. They are definitely a big
> improvement over stock. Why do you say they put out less light and
> it's only an illusion that they are brighter?
>
>
>
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:09:32 -0400, "Daniel J. Stern"
> > wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Shep wrote:
>>
>>> Amen on the short lived Silstar, went thru a set in 7 months on my chev.
>>> trailblazer, bitched to them, got another set on warranty, 7 months
>>> later,
>>> one right after another. It's a shame because they were good, and the
>>> stockers stink.

>>
>>The Sylvania Silverstars make your headlamps put out *less* light. The
>>impression you got that they're "brighter" is nothing more than an optical
>>illusion.
>>
>>So no, it's not a shame.

>

They start out putting out more light (this is why they don't last too
long), but then Sylvania puts a coating on the bulb to make it look a bit
blue. This may make you think it "looks" brighter, but tests confirm that
the coating significantly reduces the bulbs output. Some coatings (most
coatings) cut light output in half. "Believe it or don't".

Richard.


 




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