.sig change

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 06:59:37 GMT, Catman
> wrote:

wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:45:55 GMT, Catman
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Zathras wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 23:02:54 GMT, Catman
>>>> > wrote:

<snip>


>It's a public forum, and it's been too damn quiet in here recently. Jump in
>wherever you want
>
Well I read it everyday, but I just haven't had too much to contribute
for a long while.

><snip>
>> The biggest thing I took away from the session was learning where to
>> look if I find myself skidding. Learning where to keep your eyes does
>> allow you to keep better control of your car. It also teaches you that
>> there are steps to take when things take a turn for the worse, and
>> knowing those steps -- having them there for quick recall -- helps to
>> make sure panic doesn't set in after the initial "oh crap" reaction.
>
>See? I have *no* idea where I should be looking.

The quick, consise and condensed version of that answer is look where
you want to be going, not where you are going.

Pick a point on the horizon that corresponds to where you wanted to
head -- i.e. if you're in a lane on a straight highway and you start
to skid out of the lane/off the road, look as far down the highway as
possible, but try to keep looking at the centre of the lane. (It's
better if you can pick an object -- a building or a signpost is a good
choice but they're not always available.) Keep focused on that point.
Yes you have to look at what is in front of you and around you, but
never lose site of that point. Steer toward that point. Don't worry if
you are steering into the skid/steering in the direction of your
wheels/whatever other advice you've got stuck in your head.

Do whatever it takes to keep the car going in the direction of your
focal point. If the car is moving to the left of that point, steer it
so it is heading to centre again, etc. Just keep aiming at your point
and don't think about over-correcting. Do what comes naturally.

I've probably explained it poorly. It sounds really simple, and it is,
but it really is something that is best experienced in-car.

About 3/4 of the way down the following page:
http://www.hchsa.on.ca/products/teleconf/drivsafe.html
the guy who was my skid-school instructor, Doug Annett, discusses skid
control. The format is a bit odd. It seems to be a transcript of an
in-class discussion about a written test, but the information is still
good. Actually he's got lots of good things to say about driving in
general on that page.

>
>> Now I know that my little session hasn't left me the world's most
>> brilliant driver. I know that I can still mess up badly. I try not to
>> get into dangerous situations in the first place because that is the
>> safest route. But, and it's a big but, I do firmly believe that my
>> ability to control a car that has lost its grip is better. It's not
>> perfect, but it is improved, and as far as I'm concerned, that can't
>> be a bad thing.
>
>ding
>
><snip>
>>
>> I firmly believe that all new drivers should be forced to take a
>> complete, defensive driving/skid school course. What passes as
>> drivers' training around here doesn't even come close to real
>> instruction. Actually there is no requirement that a person actually
>> takes instruction. As long as a person can pass the written and in car
>> tests, they are issued a licence.
>
>Aye. And the standard related to by those tests is, IMO, pitiful.

Here too. Although I have to wonder what it would have been like at
sixteen trying to pass a harder test. My nerves were stretched pretty
much as far as they would go. <g>

>> One of these days when the time and money permit, I'd love to take
>> another, advanced session, and after that there's a stunt school I'd
>> love to try. Yes I want to put cars owned by other people into a
>> "Rockford spin" as taught by the stunt co-ordinator and instructor
>> from The Rockford Files. :-D I certainly don't want to ruin my own
>> tires, suspension, engine, bodywork or whatever else could go wrong
>> when performing such unnecessary moves. ;-)
>>
>> I guess to sum up this overly long post, is that if you've got the
>> opportunity to take a course at a qualified skid school, it certainly
>> won't hurt. It's fun and you might learn something. And even if you
>> don't, it's a day/a couple days behind the wheel thrashing a borrowed
>> car without having to be stuck in traffic (although an on-road session
>> is usually included in a full course).
>
>Yep. Birthday pressie I think

If you get such a pressie, we expect you to report back here. It would
be a kick to read your skid school story.
--Vic

> Do whatever it takes to keep the car going in the direction of your
> focal point. If the car is moving to the left of that point, steer it
> so it is heading to centre again, etc. Just keep aiming at your point
> and don't think about over-correcting. Do what comes naturally.

In my experience dealing with oversteer is far more instinctive than can
ever be explained and if you have to think about which way to turn the wheel
it is already too late.

Many struggle with concept of "steering into a skid" as they think that is
counter to what they would naturally do (i.e get out of the skid).

In reality if the car is pointing at an angle to straight ahead the natural
thing (for most anyway) is to steer towards where they want to go as opposed
to where the car is pointing.

The real experience is in unwinding the opposite lock as the car
straightens, otherwise it can be easy to be so shocked at saving the initial
situation that it becomes a slide the other way or simply drive into
oncoming traffic.

Dealing with understeer is far less intuitive. The natural desire is to
brake more and steer more. Whereas the real need is to brake less to avoid
lock up and steer less to reduce the slip angle to restore grip. It can be
quite a revelation the first time you steam into a corner with no front
grip, lift off the brakes and it suddenly turns in.

With the lack of snow (in the South West at least) there is very little
opportunity for drivers to gain experience at slow speeds so skid pans are a
very good way of feeling a sliding car in safe conditions rather than to
learn in an emergency situation.

da wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 06:59:37 GMT, Catman
> > wrote:
>
wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:45:55 GMT, Catman
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Zathras wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 23:02:54 GMT, Catman
>>>>> > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>>It's a public forum, and it's been too damn quiet in here recently. Jump
>>in wherever you want
>>
> Well I read it everyday, but I just haven't had too much to contribute
> for a long while.
>
>><snip>
>>> The biggest thing I took away from the session was learning where to
>>> look if I find myself skidding. Learning where to keep your eyes does
>>> allow you to keep better control of your car. It also teaches you that
>>> there are steps to take when things take a turn for the worse, and
>>> knowing those steps -- having them there for quick recall -- helps to
>>> make sure panic doesn't set in after the initial "oh crap" reaction.
>>
>>See? I have *no* idea where I should be looking.
>
> The quick, consise and condensed version of that answer is look where
> you want to be going, not where you are going.

Ahh, like bikes.

> Pick a point on the horizon that corresponds to where you wanted to
> head -- i.e. if you're in a lane on a straight highway and you start
> to skid out of the lane/off the road, look as far down the highway as
> possible, but try to keep looking at the centre of the lane. (It's
> better if you can pick an object -- a building or a signpost is a good
> choice but they're not always available.) Keep focused on that point.
> Yes you have to look at what is in front of you and around you, but
> never lose site of that point. Steer toward that point. Don't worry if
> you are steering into the skid/steering in the direction of your
> wheels/whatever other advice you've got stuck in your head.
>
> Do whatever it takes to keep the car going in the direction of your
> focal point. If the car is moving to the left of that point, steer it
> so it is heading to centre again, etc. Just keep aiming at your point
> and don't think about over-correcting. Do what comes naturally.

Cool

> I've probably explained it poorly. It sounds really simple, and it is,
> but it really is something that is best experienced in-car.
>
> About 3/4 of the way down the following page:
> http://www.hchsa.on.ca/products/teleconf/drivsafe.html
> the guy who was my skid-school instructor, Doug Annett, discusses skid
> control. The format is a bit odd. It seems to be a transcript of an
> in-class discussion about a written test, but the information is still
> good. Actually he's got lots of good things to say about driving in
> general on that page.

Fascinating, ta
>>
>>> Now I know that my little session hasn't left me the world's most
>>> brilliant driver. I know that I can still mess up badly. I try not to
>>> get into dangerous situations in the first place because that is the
>>> safest route. But, and it's a big but, I do firmly believe that my
>>> ability to control a car that has lost its grip is better. It's not
>>> perfect, but it is improved, and as far as I'm concerned, that can't
>>> be a bad thing.
>>
>>ding
>>
>><snip>
>>>
>>> I firmly believe that all new drivers should be forced to take a
>>> complete, defensive driving/skid school course. What passes as
>>> drivers' training around here doesn't even come close to real
>>> instruction. Actually there is no requirement that a person actually
>>> takes instruction. As long as a person can pass the written and in car
>>> tests, they are issued a licence.
>>
>>Aye. And the standard related to by those tests is, IMO, pitiful.
>
> Here too. Although I have to wonder what it would have been like at
> sixteen trying to pass a harder test. My nerves were stretched pretty
> much as far as they would go. <g>

Heh

>>> One of these days when the time and money permit, I'd love to take
>>> another, advanced session, and after that there's a stunt school I'd
>>> love to try. Yes I want to put cars owned by other people into a
>>> "Rockford spin" as taught by the stunt co-ordinator and instructor
>>> from The Rockford Files. :-D I certainly don't want to ruin my own
>>> tires, suspension, engine, bodywork or whatever else could go wrong
>>> when performing such unnecessary moves. ;-)
>>>
>>> I guess to sum up this overly long post, is that if you've got the
>>> opportunity to take a course at a qualified skid school, it certainly
>>> won't hurt. It's fun and you might learn something. And even if you
>>> don't, it's a day/a couple days behind the wheel thrashing a borrowed
>>> car without having to be stuck in traffic (although an on-road session
>>> is usually included in a full course).
>>
>>Yep. Birthday pressie I think
>
> If you get such a pressie, we expect you to report back here. It would
> be a kick to read your skid school story.

Oh I shall
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS (Badly bent) 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk