How to temporary chill a car with non-working AC.

~^Johnny^~ wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:52:58 -0400, Threeducks > wrote:
>
>
>>~^Johnny^~ wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:58:07 -0400, Threeducks > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Nope. There is no heat loss when you pass a fluid through a throttling
>>>>expansion, but there is a significant temperature drop. Now it's
>>>>becoming clear that you don't really understand how a refrigeration
>>>>cycle works.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>You mean expansion valves, orifices, tubes, and the like don't cause a
>>>negligible friction loss? :-)
>>>
>>>Shame on you! :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>All joking aside, throttling (metering) does indirectly cause a heat loss of
>>>fluid to air, as it forces condensation of the working fluid (latent heat),
>>>and there is resultant desuperheating and subcooling (sensible heat) involved
>>>as well.
>>>
>>
>>You seem to be confused. The system of interest is a working fluid
>>passing from upstream of the orfice to downstream, not the rest of the
>>cycle.
>
>
> Uh, I was being facetious.
> Believe me, I am NOT confused.

Prove it.

>
> I led. I am confused about your post! :-)
>
>

Because you don't know what you're talking about.

>
>
>>The change in enthalpy of a fluid as it passes through a valve
>>is zero and you can look that up in any thermodynamics textbook.
>
>
> Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
> Of course, I was being a smartass.
> I am having fun! Are you?
>
>
>
>>The
>>energy contained within the fluid does not change as it passes through
>>the valve! Where would it go?
>
>
> =Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
> I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction loss!
> When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost) sunstantial
> friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
> cavitation, etc.
>

Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose
is significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see.
Do you even know how to do the calculation?

>
>
>>How do you explain your concept of
>>"heat" in this context where we have a large temperature drop, but no
>>change in the amount of energy contained by the fluid?
>>
>>The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
>>which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
>>valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
>>expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?
>>
>>
>>>[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]
>>
>>You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven
>>is you know nothing about refrigeration.
>
>
>
> Bull****.
>
> YHBT, YL
> (You have been trolled, you lost).
>
> I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
> What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
>

I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage
a group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
thermodynamics.

> Go soak your head.

If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing
so well.

Tegger® wrote:

> Sparky > sprach im
> news >
>
>>Tegger® wrote:
>>
>
>
>>>>Excuse me, is this the argument clinic?
>>>
>>>If you want an argument you have to pay a dollar.
>>
>>But you're arguing with me, therefore I must have paid you. There, I've
>>run rings around your logic!
>>
>
>
>
> http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/sketch.htm

Thanks - can't beat the classics!

"Threeducks" > wrote in message
...
> ~^Johnny^~ wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:52:58 -0400, Threeducks >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>~^Johnny^~ wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:58:07 -0400, Threeducks >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Nope. There is no heat loss when you pass a fluid through a throttling
>>>>>expansion, but there is a significant temperature drop. Now it's
>>>>>becoming clear that you don't really understand how a refrigeration
>>>>>cycle works.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You mean expansion valves, orifices, tubes, and the like don't cause
>>>>a
>>>>negligible friction loss? :-)
>>>>
>>>>Shame on you! :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>All joking aside, throttling (metering) does indirectly cause a heat
>>>>loss of
>>>>fluid to air, as it forces condensation of the working fluid (latent
>>>>heat),
>>>>and there is resultant desuperheating and subcooling (sensible heat)
>>>>involved
>>>>as well.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You seem to be confused. The system of interest is a working fluid
>>>passing from upstream of the orfice to downstream, not the rest of the
>>>cycle.
>>
>>
>> Uh, I was being facetious.
>> Believe me, I am NOT confused.
>
> Prove it.
>
>>
>> I led. I am confused about your post! :-)
>>
>>
>
> Because you don't know what you're talking about.
>
>>
>>
>>>The change in enthalpy of a fluid as it passes through a valve is zero
>>>and you can look that up in any thermodynamics textbook.
>>
>>
>> Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
>> Of course, I was being a smartass.
>> I am having fun! Are you?
>>
>>
>>
>>>The energy contained within the fluid does not change as it passes
>>>through the valve! Where would it go?
>>
>>
>> =Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
>> I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction
>> loss!
>> When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost)
>> sunstantial
>> friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
>> cavitation, etc.
>>
>
> Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose is
> significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see. Do you
> even know how to do the calculation?
>
>>
>>
>>>How do you explain your concept of "heat" in this context where we have a
>>>large temperature drop, but no change in the amount of energy contained
>>>by the fluid?
>>>
>>>The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
>>>which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
>>>valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
>>>expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?
>>>
>>>
>>>>[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]
>>>
>>>You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven is
>>>you know nothing about refrigeration.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bull****.
>>
>> YHBT, YL
>> (You have been trolled, you lost).
>>
>> I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
>> What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
>>
>
> I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
> thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
> gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage a
> group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
> thermodynamics.
>
>> Go soak your head.
>
> If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing so
> well.

TOUCHÉ I love the last reply!!! Ha ha ha!! Old Johnny boy met his match
for sure!!!

Don't feel bad, one time an engineer in physics sucked the entire HVAC group
into a questions about the length of a micron. Everybody called him an idiot
etc etc. Here to find out he proved his point and everyone shut up! Seems
that this is your time, Johnny!!

Polytropic
"geoman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Threeducks" > wrote in message
> ...
> > ~^Johnny^~ wrote:
> >> On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:52:58 -0400, Threeducks >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>~^Johnny^~ wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:58:07 -0400, Threeducks
>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Nope. There is no heat loss when you pass a fluid through a
throttling
> >>>>>expansion, but there is a significant temperature drop. Now it's
> >>>>>becoming clear that you don't really understand how a refrigeration
> >>>>>cycle works.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>You mean expansion valves, orifices, tubes, and the like don't
cause
> >>>>a
> >>>>negligible friction loss? :-)
> >>>>
> >>>>Shame on you! :-)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>All joking aside, throttling (metering) does indirectly cause a heat
> >>>>loss of
> >>>>fluid to air, as it forces condensation of the working fluid (latent
> >>>>heat),
> >>>>and there is resultant desuperheating and subcooling (sensible heat)
> >>>>involved
> >>>>as well.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>You seem to be confused. The system of interest is a working fluid
> >>>passing from upstream of the orfice to downstream, not the rest of the
> >>>cycle.
> >>
> >>
> >> Uh, I was being facetious.
> >> Believe me, I am NOT confused.
> >
> > Prove it.
> >
> >>
> >> I led. I am confused about your post! :-)
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Because you don't know what you're talking about.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>The change in enthalpy of a fluid as it passes through a valve is zero
> >>>and you can look that up in any thermodynamics textbook.
> >>
> >>
> >> Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
> >> Of course, I was being a smartass.
> >> I am having fun! Are you?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>The energy contained within the fluid does not change as it passes
> >>>through the valve! Where would it go?
> >>
> >>
> >> =Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
> >> I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction
> >> loss!
> >> When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost)
> >> sunstantial
> >> friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
> >> cavitation, etc.
> >>
> >
> > Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose
is
> > significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see. Do
you
> > even know how to do the calculation?
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>How do you explain your concept of "heat" in this context where we have
a
> >>>large temperature drop, but no change in the amount of energy contained
> >>>by the fluid?
> >>>
> >>>The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
> >>>which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
> >>>valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
> >>>expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]
> >>>
> >>>You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven
is
> >>>you know nothing about refrigeration.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bull****.
> >>
> >> YHBT, YL
> >> (You have been trolled, you lost).
> >>
> >> I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
> >> What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
> >>
> >
> > I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
> > thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
> > gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage
a
> > group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
> > thermodynamics.
> >
> >> Go soak your head.
> >
> > If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing
so
> > well.
>
> TOUCHÉ I love the last reply!!! Ha ha ha!! Old Johnny boy met his
match
> for sure!!!
>
> Don't feel bad, one time an engineer in physics sucked the entire HVAC
group
> into a questions about the length of a micron. Everybody called him an
idiot
> etc etc. Here to find out he proved his point and everyone shut up! Seems
> that this is your time, Johnny!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Irreversible Adiobatic with a slight flavour of isothermal
"geoman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Threeducks" > wrote in message
> ...
> > ~^Johnny^~ wrote:
> >> On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:52:58 -0400, Threeducks >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>~^Johnny^~ wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:58:07 -0400, Threeducks
>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Nope. There is no heat loss when you pass a fluid through a
throttling
> >>>>>expansion, but there is a significant temperature drop. Now it's
> >>>>>becoming clear that you don't really understand how a refrigeration
> >>>>>cycle works.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>You mean expansion valves, orifices, tubes, and the like don't
cause
> >>>>a
> >>>>negligible friction loss? :-)
> >>>>
> >>>>Shame on you! :-)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>All joking aside, throttling (metering) does indirectly cause a heat
> >>>>loss of
> >>>>fluid to air, as it forces condensation of the working fluid (latent
> >>>>heat),
> >>>>and there is resultant desuperheating and subcooling (sensible heat)
> >>>>involved
> >>>>as well.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>You seem to be confused. The system of interest is a working fluid
> >>>passing from upstream of the orfice to downstream, not the rest of the
> >>>cycle.
> >>
> >>
> >> Uh, I was being facetious.
> >> Believe me, I am NOT confused.
> >
> > Prove it.
> >
> >>
> >> I led. I am confused about your post! :-)
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Because you don't know what you're talking about.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>The change in enthalpy of a fluid as it passes through a valve is zero
> >>>and you can look that up in any thermodynamics textbook.
> >>
> >>
> >> Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
> >> Of course, I was being a smartass.
> >> I am having fun! Are you?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>The energy contained within the fluid does not change as it passes
> >>>through the valve! Where would it go?
> >>
> >>
> >> =Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
> >> I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction
> >> loss!
> >> When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost)
> >> sunstantial
> >> friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
> >> cavitation, etc.
> >>
> >
> > Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose
is
> > significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see. Do
you
> > even know how to do the calculation?
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>How do you explain your concept of "heat" in this context where we have
a
> >>>large temperature drop, but no change in the amount of energy contained
> >>>by the fluid?
> >>>
> >>>The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
> >>>which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
> >>>valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
> >>>expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]
> >>>
> >>>You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven
is
> >>>you know nothing about refrigeration.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bull****.
> >>
> >> YHBT, YL
> >> (You have been trolled, you lost).
> >>
> >> I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
> >> What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
> >>
> >
> > I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
> > thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
> > gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage
a
> > group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
> > thermodynamics.
> >
> >> Go soak your head.
> >
> > If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing
so
> > well.
>
> TOUCHÉ I love the last reply!!! Ha ha ha!! Old Johnny boy met his
match
> for sure!!!
>
> Don't feel bad, one time an engineer in physics sucked the entire HVAC
group
> into a questions about the length of a micron. Everybody called him an
idiot
> etc etc. Here to find out he proved his point and everyone shut up! Seems
> that this is your time, Johnny!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Wiredrawing without wire
"geoman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Threeducks" > wrote in message
> ...
> > ~^Johnny^~ wrote:
> >> On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:52:58 -0400, Threeducks >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>~^Johnny^~ wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:58:07 -0400, Threeducks
>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Nope. There is no heat loss when you pass a fluid through a
throttling
> >>>>>expansion, but there is a significant temperature drop. Now it's
> >>>>>becoming clear that you don't really understand how a refrigeration
> >>>>>cycle works.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>You mean expansion valves, orifices, tubes, and the like don't
cause
> >>>>a
> >>>>negligible friction loss? :-)
> >>>>
> >>>>Shame on you! :-)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>All joking aside, throttling (metering) does indirectly cause a heat
> >>>>loss of
> >>>>fluid to air, as it forces condensation of the working fluid (latent
> >>>>heat),
> >>>>and there is resultant desuperheating and subcooling (sensible heat)
> >>>>involved
> >>>>as well.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>You seem to be confused. The system of interest is a working fluid
> >>>passing from upstream of the orfice to downstream, not the rest of the
> >>>cycle.
> >>
> >>
> >> Uh, I was being facetious.
> >> Believe me, I am NOT confused.
> >
> > Prove it.
> >
> >>
> >> I led. I am confused about your post! :-)
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Because you don't know what you're talking about.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>The change in enthalpy of a fluid as it passes through a valve is zero
> >>>and you can look that up in any thermodynamics textbook.
> >>
> >>
> >> Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
> >> Of course, I was being a smartass.
> >> I am having fun! Are you?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>The energy contained within the fluid does not change as it passes
> >>>through the valve! Where would it go?
> >>
> >>
> >> =Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
> >> I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction
> >> loss!
> >> When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost)
> >> sunstantial
> >> friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
> >> cavitation, etc.
> >>
> >
> > Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose
is
> > significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see. Do
you
> > even know how to do the calculation?
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>How do you explain your concept of "heat" in this context where we have
a
> >>>large temperature drop, but no change in the amount of energy contained
> >>>by the fluid?
> >>>
> >>>The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
> >>>which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
> >>>valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
> >>>expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]
> >>>
> >>>You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven
is
> >>>you know nothing about refrigeration.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bull****.
> >>
> >> YHBT, YL
> >> (You have been trolled, you lost).
> >>
> >> I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
> >> What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
> >>
> >
> > I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
> > thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
> > gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage
a
> > group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
> > thermodynamics.
> >
> >> Go soak your head.
> >
> > If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing
so
> > well.
>
> TOUCHÉ I love the last reply!!! Ha ha ha!! Old Johnny boy met his
match
> for sure!!!
>
> Don't feel bad, one time an engineer in physics sucked the entire HVAC
group
> into a questions about the length of a micron. Everybody called him an
idiot
> etc etc. Here to find out he proved his point and everyone shut up! Seems
> that this is your time, Johnny!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Adiobatic without the orifice
"geoman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Threeducks" > wrote in message
> ...
> > ~^Johnny^~ wrote:
> >> On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:52:58 -0400, Threeducks >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>~^Johnny^~ wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:58:07 -0400, Threeducks
>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Nope. There is no heat loss when you pass a fluid through a
throttling
> >>>>>expansion, but there is a significant temperature drop. Now it's
> >>>>>becoming clear that you don't really understand how a refrigeration
> >>>>>cycle works.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>You mean expansion valves, orifices, tubes, and the like don't
cause
> >>>>a
> >>>>negligible friction loss? :-)
> >>>>
> >>>>Shame on you! :-)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>All joking aside, throttling (metering) does indirectly cause a heat
> >>>>loss of
> >>>>fluid to air, as it forces condensation of the working fluid (latent
> >>>>heat),
> >>>>and there is resultant desuperheating and subcooling (sensible heat)
> >>>>involved
> >>>>as well.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>You seem to be confused. The system of interest is a working fluid
> >>>passing from upstream of the orfice to downstream, not the rest of the
> >>>cycle.
> >>
> >>
> >> Uh, I was being facetious.
> >> Believe me, I am NOT confused.
> >
> > Prove it.
> >
> >>
> >> I led. I am confused about your post! :-)
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Because you don't know what you're talking about.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>The change in enthalpy of a fluid as it passes through a valve is zero
> >>>and you can look that up in any thermodynamics textbook.
> >>
> >>
> >> Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
> >> Of course, I was being a smartass.
> >> I am having fun! Are you?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>The energy contained within the fluid does not change as it passes
> >>>through the valve! Where would it go?
> >>
> >>
> >> =Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
> >> I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction
> >> loss!
> >> When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost)
> >> sunstantial
> >> friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
> >> cavitation, etc.
> >>
> >
> > Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose
is
> > significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see. Do
you
> > even know how to do the calculation?
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>How do you explain your concept of "heat" in this context where we have
a
> >>>large temperature drop, but no change in the amount of energy contained
> >>>by the fluid?
> >>>
> >>>The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
> >>>which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
> >>>valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
> >>>expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]
> >>>
> >>>You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven
is
> >>>you know nothing about refrigeration.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bull****.
> >>
> >> YHBT, YL
> >> (You have been trolled, you lost).
> >>
> >> I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
> >> What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
> >>
> >
> > I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
> > thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
> > gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage
a
> > group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
> > thermodynamics.
> >
> >> Go soak your head.
> >
> > If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing
so
> > well.
>
> TOUCHÉ I love the last reply!!! Ha ha ha!! Old Johnny boy met his
match
> for sure!!!
>
> Don't feel bad, one time an engineer in physics sucked the entire HVAC
group
> into a questions about the length of a micron. Everybody called him an
idiot
> etc etc. Here to find out he proved his point and everyone shut up! Seems
> that this is your time, Johnny!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Adiabatic without the Ole
"geoman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Threeducks" > wrote in message
> ...
> > ~^Johnny^~ wrote:
> >> On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:52:58 -0400, Threeducks >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>~^Johnny^~ wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:58:07 -0400, Threeducks
>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Nope. There is no heat loss when you pass a fluid through a
throttling
> >>>>>expansion, but there is a significant temperature drop. Now it's
> >>>>>becoming clear that you don't really understand how a refrigeration
> >>>>>cycle works.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>You mean expansion valves, orifices, tubes, and the like don't
cause
> >>>>a
> >>>>negligible friction loss? :-)
> >>>>
> >>>>Shame on you! :-)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>All joking aside, throttling (metering) does indirectly cause a heat
> >>>>loss of
> >>>>fluid to air, as it forces condensation of the working fluid (latent
> >>>>heat),
> >>>>and there is resultant desuperheating and subcooling (sensible heat)
> >>>>involved
> >>>>as well.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>You seem to be confused. The system of interest is a working fluid
> >>>passing from upstream of the orfice to downstream, not the rest of the
> >>>cycle.
> >>
> >>
> >> Uh, I was being facetious.
> >> Believe me, I am NOT confused.
> >
> > Prove it.
> >
> >>
> >> I led. I am confused about your post! :-)
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Because you don't know what you're talking about.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>The change in enthalpy of a fluid as it passes through a valve is zero
> >>>and you can look that up in any thermodynamics textbook.
> >>
> >>
> >> Of course. Ignoring friction losses.
> >> Of course, I was being a smartass.
> >> I am having fun! Are you?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>The energy contained within the fluid does not change as it passes
> >>>through the valve! Where would it go?
> >>
> >>
> >> =Whooosh!= It sailed right over your head, my friend.
> >> I was intentionally splitting hairs. You can't argue against friction
> >> loss!
> >> When a fluid flows through a capillary tube, there is (almost)
> >> sunstantial
> >> friction loss! And with a TXV or TEV, there is turbulence, possible
> >> cavitation, etc.
> >>
> >
> > Show me the money. Do the calculation and prove that the friction lose
is
> > significant. It's not and when you do the calculation you'll see. Do
you
> > even know how to do the calculation?
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>How do you explain your concept of "heat" in this context where we have
a
> >>>large temperature drop, but no change in the amount of energy contained
> >>>by the fluid?
> >>>
> >>>The valve does not cause condensation, that is done in the condenser,
> >>>which is before you get to the valve. When you drop pressure with a
> >>>valve (or orfice), you vaporize part of the working fluid. How do you
> >>>expect to condense a fluid by reducing its pressure?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>[Now I'm gonna sound ridiculous, to prove a point:]
> >>>
> >>>You've already sounded quite ridiculous. The only thing you've proven
is
> >>>you know nothing about refrigeration.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bull****.
> >>
> >> YHBT, YL
> >> (You have been trolled, you lost).
> >>
> >> I have designed and built numerous systems for a living.
> >> What have YOU done? Flame me? **** you.
> >>
> >
> > I have a PhD in chemical engineering and my dissertation was on
> > thermodynamics. I've designed plants for the liquification of natural
> > gas. I'm now a professor at a Carnegie I research university and manage
a
> > group of 10 students performing state of the art research in
> > thermodynamics.
> >
> >> Go soak your head.
> >
> > If you want to make your point stick to facts. So far you aren't doing
so
> > well.
>
> TOUCHÉ I love the last reply!!! Ha ha ha!! Old Johnny boy met his
match
> for sure!!!
>
> Don't feel bad, one time an engineer in physics sucked the entire HVAC
group
> into a questions about the length of a micron. Everybody called him an
idiot
> etc etc. Here to find out he proved his point and everyone shut up! Seems
> that this is your time, Johnny!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>