water pump impeller gone bad?

On 2012-10-22, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
> It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
> getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
> thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
> it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
> antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
> rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
> problems.

> How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
> cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
> changing the wp again.

Check and see if the radiator is covered with debris. I tracked down a
cooling issue to the radiator, no leaks, I had maintained everything
properly, but it just wasn't doing the job. Given the high milage I
figured I'd just replace it since I could get a deal on a upgraded unit
from ford racing. When I went to put it in I found the main portion of
the radiator, that I couldn't see because of the AC heat exchanger
(between it and the radiator), was almost entirely blocked with debris.
I swapped it out anyway. On another car of the same model I just cleaned
off the debris and the problem went away.

On another note, if all else fails might want to check the catalyst and
see if it's becomming plugged.

On Oct 22, 1:55*pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 *miles ago.
> It was OK at that time. *Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
> getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. *I changed out the
> thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
> it ever did before. *Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
> antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
> rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
> problems.
>
> How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
> cause of this? *Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
> changing the wp again.

I've seen impellers that been eaten away ( not in 10k though),
impellers that have broken loose from the w/p shaft, impellers
installed wrong on the w/p. It is possible you have a defective
pump.

Also double check you have the serp belt routed properly in case the
water pump is running backwards.

On Oct 23, 2:22*am, Brent > wrote:
> I tracked down a
> cooling issue to the radiator <> I had maintained everything
> properly,
>
> I found the main portion of
> the radiator, that I couldn't see because of the AC heat exchanger
> (between it and the radiator), was almost entirely blocked with debris.

Interesting perspective.
-----

- gpsman

Paul in Houston TX > wrote:
>
>I have never seen a bad impeller nor have heard directly
>from anyone that has. I have heard rumors that some
>impellers are designed to run the other direction but
>have never seen one or know of anyone that has.

I have seen lots and lots of BMW pumps with plastic and diecast impellers
that crack and spew out fragments that get stuck in the block. Lots of fun.

I have seen two otherwise-identical-looking GM pumps that had impellers
designed to turn in the opposite directions. Just fine until the guy at
the dealer accidentally puts them on the wrong shelves.

But I have mostly seen fraudulent rebuilds.

>One pump fits many engines but use different gaskets.
>My guess is its something else.
>I would start with a new radiator.
>1992? Its about time for a new one.

I would not replace anything without testing it first. A garden hose is
your friend. Find out how much water is going through each part of the
system and why.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article >,
says...
>
> I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
> It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
> getting up to around 240 on mountain grades.
>

WHY did you replace the water pump 10,000 miles ago?

The job of the water pump is to circulate coolant.

The job of the thermostat is to regulate the flow of coolant to the
radiator. Closed if too cool / open if too hot.

With that said, is the top of the radiator too hot to touch when it
reaches 240?

Is the air blowing out of the radiator hot?

Is the bottom of the radiator cooler than the top of the radiator?

On 10/22/2012 01:55 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
> It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
> getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
> thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
> it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
> antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
> rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
> problems.
>
> How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
> cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
> changing the wp again.
>

I see you've got plenty of replies, but my first thought (from my
knowledge of Chevys which may not be directly applicable) is that is the
engine in your vehicle available in both V-belt and serpentine belt
configurations, depending on year/model? If you replace a "reverse
rotation" pump with one from a conventional v-belt model or vice versa,
the WP will be a lot less efficient.

I've never seen a bad impeller personally, but it is possible,
especially with the newer composite/plastic impellers. BMW has had some
issues with this in the past few years.

Another potential issue with rebuilds I've seen was an impeller pressed
too far onto the shaft causing excessive clearance between the impeller
vanes and the housing when installed. This was a known issue with some
rebuilt pumps for Studebaker V-8s a few years back. One vendor was hand
checking the pumps and using a gear puller to tweak the impellers to the
correct position before shipping them out.

Long story short, I would personally test the thermostat with a saucepan
and a thermometer; next check and make sure that the lower hose
(assuming conventional flow) isn't collapsing. If neither of those
indicate a problem and the rise in temp. coincided exactly with the
maintenance items you listed, occam's razor suggests trying a new WP.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 10/22/2012 08:37 PM, Bill Vanek wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:55:14 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
> wrote:
>
>> I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
>> It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
>> getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
>> thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
>> it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
>> antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
>> rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
>> problems.
>>
>> How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
>> cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
>> changing the wp again.
>
> Cooling fan(s) working properly? Anything blocking the air flow
> throught the radiator?
>

Ah, I didn't think of that. Add to the list of things to check that if
the vehicle has an electric fan that the connector didn't become
dislodged when changing the WP and hoses. Likewise with the
thermoswitch in the radiator controlling same, if there is one.
(sometimes it's in the rad, sometimes it's elsewhere - I don't know F*rds.)

Easy to verify that the fan is working at least, just turn on the A/C.
99.44% of cars with an electric fan and A/C will run the fan at all
times when the A/C is on.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 22 Oct 2012 16:20:21 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>Ashton Crusher > wrote:
>>I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
>>It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
>>getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
>>thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
>>it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
>>antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
>>rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
>>problems.
>
>Was this a new OEM pump or a cheap chain-store rebuild?
>
>>How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
>>cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
>>changing the wp again.
>
>It does sound like the pump, but have you checked the sensor and verified
>that it really IS running hot?
>--scott


I suspect I got it at autozone or ORielly. I'm going to find out
before redoing it and then go elsewhere.

I did check the sensor with an infrared temp gun and it's running hot.
On the trip in the mountains it got hot enough that the PCM shut down
the AC at what looked to be about 240 degrees. When it cooled down to
around 230 the AC came back on.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:37:50 -0700, Bill Vanek >
wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:55:14 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
>wrote:
>
>>I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
>>It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
>>getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
>>thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
>>it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
>>antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
>>rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
>>problems.
>>
>>How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
>>cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
>>changing the wp again.
>
>Cooling fan(s) working properly? Anything blocking the air flow
>throught the radiator?

Engine driven and supposedly once you are over 40 mph you don't even
need the fan and it got hot at speed. Don't see anything blocking but
I'll look again. Fluid fan passes the "spin" test.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 02:09:00 -0400, "Steve W." >
wrote:

>Paul in Houston TX wrote:
>> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>> I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
>>> It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
>>> getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
>>> thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
>>> it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
>>> antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
>>> rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
>>> problems.
>>>
>>> How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
>>> cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
>>> changing the wp again.
>>
>> I have never seen a bad impeller nor have heard directly
>> from anyone that has. I have heard rumors that some
>> impellers are designed to run the other direction but
>> have never seen one or know of anyone that has.
>> One pump fits many engines but use different gaskets.
>> My guess is its something else.
>> I would start with a new radiator.
>> 1992? Its about time for a new one.
>
>If you haven't seen a reverse rotation pump you haven't worked on
>anything with a serpentine belt.
>There is an easy way to tell if the pump is normal or reverse rotation.
>Simply look at the drive belt.
>If it drives off the ribbed side of the belt it is standard rotation. If
>it drives on the back/flat side of the belt it is reverse rotation.
>
>There are a LOT of common engines that use R/R pumps. I don't know of a
>single maker that didn't have engines that used both directions based on
>the year and option package.

I've been wondering about the RRotation thing but I drove the truck
almost 4000 miles across the US during the summer and it wasn't having
this problem. Then after I was home for a few weeks I drove it up and
back to the Grand Canyon and it was close to overheating the whole
time. Of the things I can see, the radiator, fan, belt, nothing
looks bad. Engine runs smooth as glass, same gas mileage as always,
same power (or lack thereof), no engine check light. So I'm thinking
of things I can't see, like the impeller.