no lube on auto fasteners?

> anti sieze is not a lube, use it on all lug nuts if you want them to
come
> off again. KB

Exactly what I do for the last 20 years.

Denny B




>
> --
> ThunderSnake #9 Warn once, shoot twice
> 460 in the pkup, 460 on the stand for another pkup
> and one in the shed for a fun project to yet be decided on

Lawrence Glickman > wrote in
:

> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:15:43 -0600, JazzMan >
> wrote:
>
>>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:15:51 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >"D. Dub" > wrote in
>>> >news:cKVAd.620764$% k.555510@pd7tw2no:
>>> >
>>> >> Lubricating fasteners will give false torque readings as it
>>> >> reduces friction.
>>> >>
>>> >> Never ever ever ever lube lugs!!!!!
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > wrote in message
>>> >> oups.com...
>>> >>> my mechanical training ground was in bicycles, where good
>>> >>> mechanics lubricate basically every fastener. grease, antiseize,
>>> >>> and
>>> >occasionally
>>> >>> oil go on everything. (the obvious advantages are correct feel
>>> >>> for the torque, no galling, decreased corrosion, etc)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> in cars, i never find any mention of lubricating fasteners,
>>> >>> except for a few applications where antiseize has been
>>> >>> reccomended. in fact, ive seen a few applications where the
>>> >>> manual has specifically said to
>>> >*not*
>>> >>> lubricate.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> i dont get it. i thought that if a fastener was torqued
>>> >>> correctly than it would not vibrate loose, and that not greasing
>>> >>> lug nuts and engine mounts was just asking for seized nuts in
>>> >>> the future.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> curious,
>>> >>> anthony
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >anti sieze is not a lube, use it on all lug nuts if you want them
>>> >to come off again. KB
>>>
>>> In fact, I'll go a step further:
>>>
>>> Permatex
>>> Anti-Seize _Lubricant_
>>>
>>> prevents
>>> seizing
>>> galling
>>> corrosion
>>> part number 133A
>>>
>>> now, notice the word "lubricant" in the product name.
>>>
>>> Finito
>>
>>Ever wonder why they call it antiseize instead of lubricant?
>
> I thought I demonstrated that it is *named* as both anti-seize and
> lubricant. That is what the manufacturer has chosen to designate the
> product as, not I.
>
>>Antiseize is designed to keep parts that are in a non-moving
>>relationship from seizing to each other. It coincidentally
>>can function as a lubricant because it does have some of those
>>properties, but if you use antiseize to lubricate something
>>like wheel bearings you'll have an almost immediate failure
>>as a result because antiseize doesn't have the additives and
>>properties that a regular lubricant that's been designed to
>>lube moving parts has.
>>
>>JazzMan
>
> What you say is True.
> There are many different lubricants for many different jobs.
> I would not suggest using motor oil in place of ATF, and vice versa
>
> But for the purpose of our discussion concerning Wheel Lugs, it is
> possible that it's use could make it too easy to either over-torque
> the bolt and put too much strain on the lug, and/or allow the lug nut
> to work loose too easily, especially in the case of my aluminum alloy
> wheels.
>
> Lg
>
>

Ok! I have been using anti sieze for at least 10 years in the shop on
wheel studs. I have never had a wheel lug come loose after tightening
with or without it for the 20 years before that. I don`t know what the
hell you people are doing to have problems keeping lugs tight. I don`t
over tighten them or have brake rotors warp either. The standard
procedures have worked perfectly all those years. You are working with a
tappered nut after all, very hard to self loosen when tightened. If you
are having problems you might want to pay closer attenction when starting
the lug nuts that they are centered before begining tightening. KB

--
ThunderSnake #9 Warn once, shoot twice
460 in the pkup, 460 on the stand for another pkup
and one in the shed for a fun project to yet be decided on

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:05:25 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
> wrote:

>Lawrence Glickman > wrote in
:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:15:43 -0600, JazzMan >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:15:51 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >"D. Dub" > wrote in
>>>> >news:cKVAd.620764$% k.555510@pd7tw2no:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Lubricating fasteners will give false torque readings as it
>>>> >> reduces friction.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Never ever ever ever lube lugs!!!!!
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > wrote in message
>>>> >> oups.com...
>>>> >>> my mechanical training ground was in bicycles, where good
>>>> >>> mechanics lubricate basically every fastener. grease, antiseize,
>>>> >>> and
>>>> >occasionally
>>>> >>> oil go on everything. (the obvious advantages are correct feel
>>>> >>> for the torque, no galling, decreased corrosion, etc)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> in cars, i never find any mention of lubricating fasteners,
>>>> >>> except for a few applications where antiseize has been
>>>> >>> reccomended. in fact, ive seen a few applications where the
>>>> >>> manual has specifically said to
>>>> >*not*
>>>> >>> lubricate.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> i dont get it. i thought that if a fastener was torqued
>>>> >>> correctly than it would not vibrate loose, and that not greasing
>>>> >>> lug nuts and engine mounts was just asking for seized nuts in
>>>> >>> the future.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> curious,
>>>> >>> anthony
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >anti sieze is not a lube, use it on all lug nuts if you want them
>>>> >to come off again. KB
>>>>
>>>> In fact, I'll go a step further:
>>>>
>>>> Permatex
>>>> Anti-Seize _Lubricant_
>>>>
>>>> prevents
>>>> seizing
>>>> galling
>>>> corrosion
>>>> part number 133A
>>>>
>>>> now, notice the word "lubricant" in the product name.
>>>>
>>>> Finito
>>>
>>>Ever wonder why they call it antiseize instead of lubricant?
>>
>> I thought I demonstrated that it is *named* as both anti-seize and
>> lubricant. That is what the manufacturer has chosen to designate the
>> product as, not I.
>>
>>>Antiseize is designed to keep parts that are in a non-moving
>>>relationship from seizing to each other. It coincidentally
>>>can function as a lubricant because it does have some of those
>>>properties, but if you use antiseize to lubricate something
>>>like wheel bearings you'll have an almost immediate failure
>>>as a result because antiseize doesn't have the additives and
>>>properties that a regular lubricant that's been designed to
>>>lube moving parts has.
>>>
>>>JazzMan
>>
>> What you say is True.
>> There are many different lubricants for many different jobs.
>> I would not suggest using motor oil in place of ATF, and vice versa
>>
>> But for the purpose of our discussion concerning Wheel Lugs, it is
>> possible that it's use could make it too easy to either over-torque
>> the bolt and put too much strain on the lug, and/or allow the lug nut
>> to work loose too easily, especially in the case of my aluminum alloy
>> wheels.
>>
>> Lg
>>
>>
>
>Ok! I have been using anti sieze for at least 10 years in the shop on
>wheel studs. I have never had a wheel lug come loose after tightening
>with or without it for the 20 years before that. I don`t know what the
>hell you people are doing to have problems keeping lugs tight.

I'm not doing -anything-. I have aluminum alloy wheels which are
_notorious_ for not seating correctly without a few after torques a
day or two apart.

> I don`t
>over tighten them or have brake rotors warp either.

What do you torque the lug nuts to WITH your lube on them, please?
Not the dry thread torque I hope, or you've overstretched/overstrained
the lugs so they are just waiting to SNAP at any moment.

How do you de-rate the dry thread torque for wet thread torque please?


> The standard
>procedures have worked perfectly all those years. You are working with a
>tappered nut after all, very hard to self loosen when tightened. If you
>are having problems you might want to pay closer attenction when starting
>the lug nuts that they are centered before begining tightening. KB

That's NOT a standard procedure. Take that to the brickyard, and they
will laugh your ass all the way back to Kentucky.

Lg

Lawrence Glickman > wrote in
:

> On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:05:25 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
> > wrote:
>
>>Lawrence Glickman > wrote in
m:
>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:15:43 -0600, JazzMan >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:15:51 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >"D. Dub" > wrote in
>>>>> >news:cKVAd.620764$% k.555510@pd7tw2no:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Lubricating fasteners will give false torque readings as it
>>>>> >> reduces friction.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Never ever ever ever lube lugs!!!!!
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> > wrote in message
>>>>> >> oups.com...
>>>>> >>> my mechanical training ground was in bicycles, where good
>>>>> >>> mechanics lubricate basically every fastener. grease,
>>>>> >>> antiseize, and
>>>>> >occasionally
>>>>> >>> oil go on everything. (the obvious advantages are correct feel
>>>>> >>> for the torque, no galling, decreased corrosion, etc)
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> in cars, i never find any mention of lubricating fasteners,
>>>>> >>> except for a few applications where antiseize has been
>>>>> >>> reccomended. in fact, ive seen a few applications where the
>>>>> >>> manual has specifically said to
>>>>> >*not*
>>>>> >>> lubricate.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> i dont get it. i thought that if a fastener was torqued
>>>>> >>> correctly than it would not vibrate loose, and that not
>>>>> >>> greasing lug nuts and engine mounts was just asking for seized
>>>>> >>> nuts in the future.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> curious,
>>>>> >>> anthony
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >anti sieze is not a lube, use it on all lug nuts if you want them
>>>>> >to come off again. KB
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, I'll go a step further:
>>>>>
>>>>> Permatex
>>>>> Anti-Seize _Lubricant_
>>>>>
>>>>> prevents
>>>>> seizing
>>>>> galling
>>>>> corrosion
>>>>> part number 133A
>>>>>
>>>>> now, notice the word "lubricant" in the product name.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finito
>>>>
>>>>Ever wonder why they call it antiseize instead of lubricant?
>>>
>>> I thought I demonstrated that it is *named* as both anti-seize and
>>> lubricant. That is what the manufacturer has chosen to designate
>>> the product as, not I.
>>>
>>>>Antiseize is designed to keep parts that are in a non-moving
>>>>relationship from seizing to each other. It coincidentally
>>>>can function as a lubricant because it does have some of those
>>>>properties, but if you use antiseize to lubricate something
>>>>like wheel bearings you'll have an almost immediate failure
>>>>as a result because antiseize doesn't have the additives and
>>>>properties that a regular lubricant that's been designed to
>>>>lube moving parts has.
>>>>
>>>>JazzMan
>>>
>>> What you say is True.
>>> There are many different lubricants for many different jobs.
>>> I would not suggest using motor oil in place of ATF, and vice versa
>>>
>>>
>>> But for the purpose of our discussion concerning Wheel Lugs, it is
>>> possible that it's use could make it too easy to either over-torque
>>> the bolt and put too much strain on the lug, and/or allow the lug
>>> nut to work loose too easily, especially in the case of my aluminum
>>> alloy wheels.
>>>
>>> Lg
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Ok! I have been using anti sieze for at least 10 years in the shop on
>>wheel studs. I have never had a wheel lug come loose after tightening
>>with or without it for the 20 years before that. I don`t know what the
>>hell you people are doing to have problems keeping lugs tight.
>
> I'm not doing -anything-. I have aluminum alloy wheels which are
> _notorious_ for not seating correctly without a few after torques a
> day or two apart.
>
>> I don`t
>>over tighten them or have brake rotors warp either.
>
> What do you torque the lug nuts to WITH your lube on them, please?
> Not the dry thread torque I hope, or you've overstretched/overstrained
> the lugs so they are just waiting to SNAP at any moment.
>
> How do you de-rate the dry thread torque for wet thread torque please?
>
>
>> The standard
>>procedures have worked perfectly all those years. You are working with
>>a tappered nut after all, very hard to self loosen when tightened. If
>>you are having problems you might want to pay closer attenction when
>>starting the lug nuts that they are centered before begining
>>tightening. KB
>
> That's NOT a standard procedure. Take that to the brickyard, and they
> will laugh your ass all the way back to Kentucky.
>
> Lg
>

In case your having trouble reading, I have done standard lug
tightening procedure (not race car!, it is different, and irresponsible
to try to compare them, your not driving a race car) and had no problems
in 30 years. Even with the newer allumun wheels. Now some of the older
mag type aftermarket wheels that were not taper lug nuts were known to
have problems. We are not talking about them here. Get over your
obsession with exact torque readings. Lube or not your dealing with a
mostly half inch stud size, it will not be any where close to failure if
you torque it with antisieze to rated torque. I have not warped rotors
problems which will show up long before snapping any lugs also. quit
being so anal and figure out what your doing wrong. if the rest of the
world is not having that many problems with them, and there not, then
guess where the problem is?????????
PS just because it says antisieze lube on the bottle it does not make it
a lubercant. all most anything one can put on will ease torque effort in
the short run. KB

--
ThunderSnake #9 Warn once, shoot twice
460 in the pkup, 460 on the stand for another pkup
and one in the shed for a fun project to yet be decided on

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:49:47 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
> wrote:

>Lawrence Glickman > wrote in
:
>
>> On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:05:25 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Lawrence Glickman > wrote in
:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:15:43 -0600, JazzMan >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:15:51 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >"D. Dub" > wrote in
>>>>>> >news:cKVAd.620764$% k.555510@pd7tw2no:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Lubricating fasteners will give false torque readings as it
>>>>>> >> reduces friction.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Never ever ever ever lube lugs!!!!!
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> > wrote in message
>>>>>> >> oups.com...
>>>>>> >>> my mechanical training ground was in bicycles, where good
>>>>>> >>> mechanics lubricate basically every fastener. grease,
>>>>>> >>> antiseize, and
>>>>>> >occasionally
>>>>>> >>> oil go on everything. (the obvious advantages are correct feel
>>>>>> >>> for the torque, no galling, decreased corrosion, etc)
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> in cars, i never find any mention of lubricating fasteners,
>>>>>> >>> except for a few applications where antiseize has been
>>>>>> >>> reccomended. in fact, ive seen a few applications where the
>>>>>> >>> manual has specifically said to
>>>>>> >*not*
>>>>>> >>> lubricate.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> i dont get it. i thought that if a fastener was torqued
>>>>>> >>> correctly than it would not vibrate loose, and that not
>>>>>> >>> greasing lug nuts and engine mounts was just asking for seized
>>>>>> >>> nuts in the future.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> curious,
>>>>>> >>> anthony
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >anti sieze is not a lube, use it on all lug nuts if you want them
>>>>>> >to come off again. KB
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In fact, I'll go a step further:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Permatex
>>>>>> Anti-Seize _Lubricant_
>>>>>>
>>>>>> prevents
>>>>>> seizing
>>>>>> galling
>>>>>> corrosion
>>>>>> part number 133A
>>>>>>
>>>>>> now, notice the word "lubricant" in the product name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finito
>>>>>
>>>>>Ever wonder why they call it antiseize instead of lubricant?
>>>>
>>>> I thought I demonstrated that it is *named* as both anti-seize and
>>>> lubricant. That is what the manufacturer has chosen to designate
>>>> the product as, not I.
>>>>
>>>>>Antiseize is designed to keep parts that are in a non-moving
>>>>>relationship from seizing to each other. It coincidentally
>>>>>can function as a lubricant because it does have some of those
>>>>>properties, but if you use antiseize to lubricate something
>>>>>like wheel bearings you'll have an almost immediate failure
>>>>>as a result because antiseize doesn't have the additives and
>>>>>properties that a regular lubricant that's been designed to
>>>>>lube moving parts has.
>>>>>
>>>>>JazzMan
>>>>
>>>> What you say is True.
>>>> There are many different lubricants for many different jobs.
>>>> I would not suggest using motor oil in place of ATF, and vice versa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But for the purpose of our discussion concerning Wheel Lugs, it is
>>>> possible that it's use could make it too easy to either over-torque
>>>> the bolt and put too much strain on the lug, and/or allow the lug
>>>> nut to work loose too easily, especially in the case of my aluminum
>>>> alloy wheels.
>>>>
>>>> Lg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Ok! I have been using anti sieze for at least 10 years in the shop on
>>>wheel studs. I have never had a wheel lug come loose after tightening
>>>with or without it for the 20 years before that. I don`t know what the
>>>hell you people are doing to have problems keeping lugs tight.
>>
>> I'm not doing -anything-. I have aluminum alloy wheels which are
>> _notorious_ for not seating correctly without a few after torques a
>> day or two apart.
>>
>>> I don`t
>>>over tighten them or have brake rotors warp either.
>>
>> What do you torque the lug nuts to WITH your lube on them, please?
>> Not the dry thread torque I hope, or you've overstretched/overstrained
>> the lugs so they are just waiting to SNAP at any moment.
>>
>> How do you de-rate the dry thread torque for wet thread torque please?
>>
>>
>>> The standard
>>>procedures have worked perfectly all those years. You are working with
>>>a tappered nut after all, very hard to self loosen when tightened. If
>>>you are having problems you might want to pay closer attenction when
>>>starting the lug nuts that they are centered before begining
>>>tightening. KB
>>
>> That's NOT a standard procedure. Take that to the brickyard, and they
>> will laugh your ass all the way back to Kentucky.
>>
>> Lg
>>
>
> In case your having trouble reading, I have done standard lug
>tightening procedure (not race car!, it is different, and irresponsible
>to try to compare them

Not at all. When I'm doing 70 mph on my way to Wisconsin, I -am- in a
racecar. If I have to dodge a deer and make a hard turn, the last
thing I wanna see is one of my wheels rolling off into the woods at 70
mph.

Noted: you never mentioned the de-rating of dry thread torque for wet
thread torque.

>, your not driving a race car)

see above

> and had no problems
>in 30 years. Even with the newer allumun wheels. Now some of the older
>mag type aftermarket wheels that were not taper lug nuts were known to
>have problems. We are not talking about them here.

We most certainly ARE, Sir. My *taper* lug nuts were loose as a
goose's ass at Christmastime when I brought my *new* car home. I
could almost turn them by hand.

> Get over your
>obsession with exact torque readings.

Not gonna happen Archie, and I'll tell ya why. My dad spent his
entire lifetime ( graduate of MIT ) doing stress testing on Naval
Underwater Ordinance. I've seen those bolts go. And even on my OWN
car, have busted off the lugs going to the *factory recommended 100
pound / feet ). Busted clean off. I have a jpeg of the receipt for
the new lug is you want me to email it to ya.

> Lube or not your dealing with a
>mostly half inch stud size,

Doesn't make a damn of difference. I'm driving a 3,800 pound
automobile here doing 70 mph or 80 mph or greater, sometimes 85 mph.
think E=mv^2

What kind of force do you think those bolts are going to get on a 180
or 360 spinout.

Now go away and kill somebody else.
I can't waste any more time with your ignorance.

Lg'



> it will not be any where close to failure if
>you torque it with antisieze to rated torque. I have not warped rotors
>problems which will show up long before snapping any lugs also. quit
>being so anal and figure out what your doing wrong. if the rest of the
>world is not having that many problems with them, and there not, then
>guess where the problem is?????????
>PS just because it says antisieze lube on the bottle it does not make it
>a lubercant. all most anything one can put on will ease torque effort in
>the short run. KB

Kevin Bottorff wrote:
>
> In case your having trouble reading, I have done standard lug
> tightening procedure (not race car!, it is different, and irresponsible
> to try to compare them, your not driving a race car) and had no problems
> in 30 years. Even with the newer allumun wheels. Now some of the older
> mag type aftermarket wheels that were not taper lug nuts were known to
> have problems. We are not talking about them here. Get over your
> obsession with exact torque readings. Lube or not your dealing with a
> mostly half inch stud size, it will not be any where close to failure if
> you torque it with antisieze to rated torque. I have not warped rotors
> problems which will show up long before snapping any lugs also. quit
> being so anal and figure out what your doing wrong. if the rest of the
> world is not having that many problems with them, and there not, then
> guess where the problem is?????????
> PS just because it says antisieze lube on the bottle it does not make it
> a lubercant. all most anything one can put on will ease torque effort in
> the short run. KB
>

Lemme see if I have this straight:

My truck calls for 100 lb/ft torque (dry.)

You would put antiseize on there and then torque em down to 100?

"Ray" > wrote in message
news:NlVBd.679387$%k.27716@pd7tw2no...
>
> Lemme see if I have this straight:
>
> My truck calls for 100 lb/ft torque (dry.)
>
> You would put antiseize on there and then torque em down to 100?

You bet, especially since it's your truck.

Chas Hurst wrote:
> "Ray" > wrote in message
> news:NlVBd.679387$%k.27716@pd7tw2no...
>
>>Lemme see if I have this straight:
>>
>>My truck calls for 100 lb/ft torque (dry.)
>>
>>You would put antiseize on there and then torque em down to 100?
>
>
> You bet, especially since it's your truck.
>
>

Smartass. I was asking Kevin if that's his "final answer" on that so I
can confirm that he is in fact totally retarded.

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:05:25 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
> wrote:

<snip>
>Ok! I have been using anti sieze for at least 10 years in the shop on=20
>wheel studs. I have never had a wheel lug come loose after tightening=20
>with or without it for the 20 years before that. I don`t know what the=20
>hell you people are doing to have problems keeping lugs tight. I don`t=20
>over tighten them or have brake rotors warp either. The standard=20
>procedures have worked perfectly all those years.

This is by no means the *standard* procedure.

=46rom the 2005 GM Service Manual,

"Notice: A torque wrench or J 39544 must be used to ensure that wheel
nuts are tightened to specification. Never use lubricants or penetrating
fluids on wheel stud, nuts, or mounting surfaces, as this can raise the
actual torque on the nut without a corresponding torque reading on the
torque wrench. Wheel nuts, studs, and mounting surfaces must be clean
and dry. Failure to follow these instructions could result in wheel,
nut, and/or stud damage."

> You are working with a=20
>tappered nut after all, very hard to self loosen when tightened. If you=20
>are having problems you might want to pay closer attenction when =
starting=20
>the lug nuts that they are centered before begining tightening. KB

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 23:41:36 GMT, "D. Dub"
> wrote:

>
> wrote in message
.. .
>On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:05:25 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>Ok! I have been using anti sieze for at least 10 years in the shop on
>>wheel studs. I have never had a wheel lug come loose after tightening
>>with or without it for the 20 years before that. I don`t know what the
>>hell you people are doing to have problems keeping lugs tight. I don`t
>>over tighten them or have brake rotors warp either. The standard
>>procedures have worked perfectly all those years.
>
>This is by no means the *standard* procedure.
>
>From the 2005 GM Service Manual,
>
>"Notice: A torque wrench or J 39544 must be used to ensure that wheel
>nuts are tightened to specification. Never use lubricants or penetrating
>fluids on wheel stud, nuts, or mounting surfaces, as this can raise the
>actual torque on the nut without a corresponding torque reading on the
>torque wrench. Wheel nuts, studs, and mounting surfaces must be clean
>and dry. Failure to follow these instructions could result in wheel,
>nut, and/or stud damage."
>
>> You are working with a
>>tappered nut after all, very hard to self loosen when tightened. If you
>>are having problems you might want to pay closer attenction when starting
>>the lug nuts that they are centered before begining tightening. KB
>
>
>Sure...............try and fool him with the facts................
>

I would slap you in the face for that.

consider yourself SLAPPED.

You're trying to tell me, a Certified Engineer, how to tighten a
****ing nut? Go to HELL.

Lg