road courtesy - a question for the masses of rad

I've seen people here say they would never flinch from their lane to
oncoming traffic when on a freeway - I understand that logic as I've
lived most of my life in large cities with entrance ramps ranging from a
mere few feet where bad drivers come to a dead stop when confronted with
traffic moving 30-50 mph faster than them (those people deserve
criticism, IMO).

But now I live in a small town and was leaving work today from the
outskirts of an even smaller town.

So, everyday, I am faced with making a right turn (90 degrees) from a
road with a speed limit of 35 to a 4 lane divided highway (2 lanes each
way) with a limit of 65.

There is a VERY generous acceleration lane (not a ramp as there is no
elevation to overcome). It goes on long enough for me in my modest V-6
Chrysler to accelerate to the limit before the solid white line even
disappears without pressing it anywhere near the floor.

So, this evening, I was calmly accelerating up to speed and just as I
hit the passing point (where the solid white line turned to stripes
shortly before the acceleration lane turns to shoulder) there was a
driver in the far right lane (excluding my acceleration lane) that was
just close enough behind me that I could not merge without punching it
and driving on the shoulder for a brief moment.

There was no one else anywhere near us. I expected him to move to the
left lane to allow me to merge into "traffic" (the sole traffic anywhere
near us - within a half mile ahead or behind us) being me and him.

Had I known he was going to be a dick about it, I would have accelerated
harder and merged in front on him. Had I been a real dick (and willing
to break the law), I would have crossed over the solid white line as
soon as I could have while I was still going less than 40, thus forcing
him to either brake or change lanes.

So, am I unreasonable to expect a little courtesy in this situation?

Or is the other driver unreasonable to not afford me the courtesy of
merging without having to brake and go behind him.


Bear in mind that by the time I hit the merge point I was going 65-70
mph and he was only going about 65, since I passed him as soon as I was
forced to merge behind him - and also bear in mind that there was no
traffic anywhere near either of us that would have prevented him from
moving over one lane.

I even considered the possibility that he wanted to exit to the right
about 3/4 of a mile ahead - he didn't, so throw that idea out.

Opinions?

barking pumpkin wrote:
> I've seen people here say they would never flinch from their lane to
> oncoming traffic when on a freeway - I understand that logic as I've
> lived most of my life in large cities with entrance ramps ranging from a
> mere few feet where bad drivers come to a dead stop when confronted with
> traffic moving 30-50 mph faster than them (those people deserve
> criticism, IMO).
>
> But now I live in a small town and was leaving work today from the
> outskirts of an even smaller town.
>
> So, everyday, I am faced with making a right turn (90 degrees) from a
> road with a speed limit of 35 to a 4 lane divided highway (2 lanes each
> way) with a limit of 65.
>
> There is a VERY generous acceleration lane (not a ramp as there is no
> elevation to overcome). It goes on long enough for me in my modest V-6
> Chrysler to accelerate to the limit before the solid white line even
> disappears without pressing it anywhere near the floor.
>
> So, this evening, I was calmly accelerating up to speed and just as I
> hit the passing point (where the solid white line turned to stripes
> shortly before the acceleration lane turns to shoulder) there was a
> driver in the far right lane (excluding my acceleration lane) that was
> just close enough behind me that I could not merge without punching it
> and driving on the shoulder for a brief moment.
>
> There was no one else anywhere near us. I expected him to move to the
> left lane to allow me to merge into "traffic" (the sole traffic anywhere
> near us - within a half mile ahead or behind us) being me and him.
>
> Had I known he was going to be a dick about it, I would have accelerated
> harder and merged in front on him. Had I been a real dick (and willing
> to break the law), I would have crossed over the solid white line as
> soon as I could have while I was still going less than 40, thus forcing
> him to either brake or change lanes.
>
> So, am I unreasonable to expect a little courtesy in this situation?
>
> Or is the other driver unreasonable to not afford me the courtesy of
> merging without having to brake and go behind him.
>
>
> Bear in mind that by the time I hit the merge point I was going 65-70
> mph and he was only going about 65, since I passed him as soon as I was
> forced to merge behind him - and also bear in mind that there was no
> traffic anywhere near either of us that would have prevented him from
> moving over one lane.
>
> I even considered the possibility that he wanted to exit to the right
> about 3/4 of a mile ahead - he didn't, so throw that idea out.
>
> Opinions?

I say you're at fault all the way. It's your responsibility to adjust
your speed so you can merge smoothly. From the way you tell it you had
plenty of time and space to either merge in front of him or slow down
and merge behind him. Looks like you just didn't plan things
correctly.

He is not required to move to the left to accomodate a merger. Yes -
it would have been nice if he had, but that don't mean ****. Switching
lanes is dangerous. I very seldom move left to help people merge though
i do slow down or speed up to open a space for them.

barking pumpkin wrote:

> Opinions?

No other traffic around?????

Even I say that you were wrong, and I'd put it more bluntly if I were
him. He holds his speed, and you adjust. You should have been looking
for the spot and adjusting long before the lanes merged. What was he,
a moving target??

This isn't nearly the same situation as having a lane run out and no
place to fit, in which case the other cars need to play nice.

In article >, barking pumpkin wrote:

> So, this evening, I was calmly accelerating up to speed and just as I
> hit the passing point (where the solid white line turned to stripes
> shortly before the acceleration lane turns to shoulder) there was a
> driver in the far right lane (excluding my acceleration lane) that was
> just close enough behind me that I could not merge without punching it
> and driving on the shoulder for a brief moment.

> There was no one else anywhere near us. I expected him to move to the
> left lane to allow me to merge into "traffic" (the sole traffic anywhere
> near us - within a half mile ahead or behind us) being me and him.

He has no obligation to move for you. You on the other hand had an
obligation to merge without disturbing him. You could have achieved this
two ways given your description.

1) a lighter touch on the 'go' pedal and merged behind him.
2) a heavier touch on the 'go' pedal and merged ahead of him.

Instead you decided on 3) attempt to make him move out of your way.

> Had I known he was going to be a dick about it,

Actually you were being that way to him. If he was a dick he would have
accelerated and run you off onto the shoulder and forced you to merge
behind him.

> I would have accelerated harder and merged in front on him.

You should have.

> Had I been a real dick (and willing
> to break the law), I would have crossed over the solid white line as
> soon as I could have while I was still going less than 40, thus forcing
> him to either brake or change lanes.

Yeah, you could have been a bigger asshole than you were.

> So, am I unreasonable to expect a little courtesy in this situation?

He showed you courtsey, he maintained course and speed. Your desire to
have him move for you was the opposite of courteous.

> Or is the other driver unreasonable to not afford me the courtesy of
> merging without having to brake and go behind him.

In a situation where you could have merged safely and cleanly without
causing disruption to others, you chose a course that would disrupt the
only other driver in the area, because you wanted him to bow to you and
show you courtsey. Now you're upset because he didn't do as you wanted.

> Bear in mind that by the time I hit the merge point I was going 65-70
> mph and he was only going about 65, since I passed him as soon as I was
> forced to merge behind him - and also bear in mind that there was no
> traffic anywhere near either of us that would have prevented him from
> moving over one lane.

You're earlier description indicated that you punched it on to the
shoulder, implying that you merged in front of him... this post is
begining to stink like the environment under a bridge.

> I even considered the possibility that he wanted to exit to the right
> about 3/4 of a mile ahead - he didn't, so throw that idea out.

How about you don't screw around with other drivers who are minding
their own business demanding they get out of your way, when the only
reason they are in your way is because you came charging at them. You
had every opertunity to make a smooth merge, you chose to make it
difficult. You chose to demand another driver who had no obligation to
yield, yield to you. Now you're upset he didn't bow to you. I see your
kind often on the road. The road isn't a place to excerise your games of
control. Next time aim for the gaps behind or in front of the driver in
the right lane instead of his passenger side door.

barking pumpkin wrote:

> So, everyday, I am faced with making a right turn (90 degrees) from a
> road with a speed limit of 35 to a 4 lane divided highway (2 lanes each
> way) with a limit of 65.
>
> There is a VERY generous acceleration lane (not a ramp as there is no
> elevation to overcome). It goes on long enough for me in my modest V-6
> Chrysler to accelerate to the limit before the solid white line even
> disappears without pressing it anywhere near the floor.
>
> So, this evening, I was calmly accelerating up to speed and just as I
> hit the passing point (where the solid white line turned to stripes
> shortly before the acceleration lane turns to shoulder) there was a
> driver in the far right lane (excluding my acceleration lane) that was
> just close enough behind me that I could not merge without punching it
> and driving on the shoulder for a brief moment.
>
> There was no one else anywhere near us. I expected him to move to the
> left lane to allow me to merge into "traffic" (the sole traffic anywhere
> near us - within a half mile ahead or behind us) being me and him.

It should have been more than easy enough to adjust your acceleration
rate enough so that you could have been several car lengths ahead or
behind him by the time you reached the merge point.

barking pumpkin wrote: <brevity snip>

> So, everyday, I am faced with making a right turn (90 degrees) from a
> road with a speed limit of 35 to a 4 lane divided highway (2 lanes each
> way) with a limit of 65.
>
> There is a VERY generous acceleration lane (not a ramp as there is no
> elevation to overcome). It goes on long enough for me in my modest V-6
> Chrysler to accelerate to the limit before the solid white line even
> disappears without pressing it anywhere near the floor.
>
> So, this evening, I was calmly accelerating up to speed and just as I
> hit the passing point (where the solid white line turned to stripes
> shortly before the acceleration lane turns to shoulder) there was a
> driver in the far right lane (excluding my acceleration lane) that was
> just close enough behind me that I could not merge without punching it
> and driving on the shoulder for a brief moment.
>
> There was no one else anywhere near us. I expected him to move to the
> left lane to allow me to merge into "traffic" (the sole traffic anywhere
> near us - within a half mile ahead or behind us) being me and him.
>
> Had I known he was going to be a dick about it, I would have accelerated
> harder and merged in front on him. Had I been a real dick (and willing
> to break the law), I would have crossed over the solid white line as
> soon as I could have while I was still going less than 40, thus forcing
> him to either brake or change lanes.
>
> So, am I unreasonable to expect a little courtesy in this situation?
>
> Or is the other driver unreasonable to not afford me the courtesy of
> merging without having to brake and go behind him.
>
>
> Bear in mind that by the time I hit the merge point I was going 65-70
> mph and he was only going about 65, since I passed him as soon as I was
> forced to merge behind him - and also bear in mind that there was no
> traffic anywhere near either of us that would have prevented him from
> moving over one lane.
>
> I even considered the possibility that he wanted to exit to the right
> about 3/4 of a mile ahead - he didn't, so throw that idea out.
>
> Opinions?

Your bad.

It's your responsibility to merge with the flow of traffic causing as
little conflict as practical. An ample accleration lane and only one
vehicle within a half-mile in either direction makes that a pretty
simple proposition. When two dickheads merge upon one another is when
lots of calamity sometimes begins.

If I had been the other driver under those conditions I would have
moved L at the first sign there was a likely conflict with our
vectors... just more safe for me and not much of an "inconvenience".
-----

- gpsman

Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote:
> barking pumpkin wrote:
>
>>
>>Opinions?
>
>
> I say you're at fault all the way. It's your responsibility to adjust
> your speed so you can merge smoothly.


Well, I did adjust my speed and fell in behind him, only to just as
quickly pass him.

> From the way you tell it you had
> plenty of time and space to either merge in front of him

The only way I could have merged in front of him would have been to
break the law by crossing a solid white line or by flooring it instead
of using the full length of the acceleration lane to come up to highway
speed.


> or slow down
> and merge behind him.

Which is what I ended up doing.

>Looks like you just didn't plan things
> correctly.


Yeah, I didn't. Next time, I will not count on someone being reasonably
courteous and will cut them off.

>
> He is not required to move to the left


I never suggested the law required that - common courtesy - well,
perhaps, uncommon courtesy says otherwise.

> to accomodate a merger. Yes -
> it would have been nice if he had, but that don't mean ****. Switching
> lanes is dangerous.

Sorry, but I explained that there was no one within at least a half-mile
of either of us - I didn't exagerrate. Switching lanes would have been
the safer option in this case - he didn't know that I wouldn't have just
cut in front of him anyway. Had I been you, I probably would have.

>I very seldom move left to help people merge though

That's probably because you're already in the left lane trying to slow
traffic down.

> i do slow down or speed up to open a space for them.
>

This driver did neither.

wrote:
> barking pumpkin wrote:
>
>
>>Opinions?
>
>
> No other traffic around?????

Did I stutter?

As I stated before, this is not the big city.

>
> Even I say that you were wrong,

Obviously, I was wrong to expect someone else to act reasonably.
Nevertheless, I was not so wrong that I forced any other driver to brake.

I could have done something moronic like merge in front of him as the
acceleration lane ended.

I dare say that even though the other driver may have been well within
his right to maintain his lane and speed, it was a foolish thing to do,
because just as I could not count on him to be courteous, he could not
count on me to be safe and I was ahead of him when the merge was forced
by the lines on the road.

> and I'd put it more bluntly if I were
> him. He holds his speed, and you adjust. You should have been looking
> for the spot and adjusting long before the lanes merged. What was he,
> a moving target??

No, but he watched me for - (just guessing here, but) - probably close
to a full 30 seconds while I was ahead of him and he should have
realized my acceleration lane would end soon and I would be forced to
merge into his lane.

>
> This isn't nearly the same situation as having a lane run out and no
> place to fit, in which case the other cars need to play nice.
>

Brent P wrote:
> In article >, barking pumpkin wrote:
>
>
>>So, this evening, I was calmly accelerating up to speed and just as I
>>hit the passing point (where the solid white line turned to stripes
>>shortly before the acceleration lane turns to shoulder) there was a
>>driver in the far right lane (excluding my acceleration lane) that was
>>just close enough behind me that I could not merge without punching it
>>and driving on the shoulder for a brief moment.
>
>
>
>>There was no one else anywhere near us. I expected him to move to the
>>left lane to allow me to merge into "traffic" (the sole traffic anywhere
>>near us - within a half mile ahead or behind us) being me and him.
>
>
> He has no obligation to move for you.

No legal obligation perhaps. That's not what I was asking, but thanks
for your opinion anyway.

> You on the other hand had an
> obligation to merge without disturbing him.

As I did.

> You could have achieved this
> two ways given your description.
>
> 1) a lighter touch on the 'go' pedal and merged behind him.
> 2) a heavier touch on the 'go' pedal and merged ahead of him.
>
> Instead you decided on 3) attempt to make him move out of your way.


WRONG!

I could have easily FORCED him to move out of the way, or barring that
hit him.

Instead, I braked and fell in behind him and proceeded to pass him.

I most certainly did NOT attempt to make him move out of my way.

>
>
>>Had I known he was going to be a dick about it,
>
>
> Actually you were being that way to him. If he was a dick he would have
> accelerated and run you off onto the shoulder

Errr - no - had he accelerated, he would have been out of my way and I
would have proceeded unimpeded.

Instead, he gave me no choice but to run onto the shoulder or brake and
fall in behind him and immediately pass him.


> and forced you to merge
> behind him.

Which I was essentially forced to do. I could very easily have taken
20-30 feet on the shoulder to continue accelerating and merge in front
of him

>
>
>>I would have accelerated harder and merged in front on him.
>
>
> You should have.

Yeah - hindsight is 20-20.

>
>
>> Had I been a real dick (and willing
>>to break the law), I would have crossed over the solid white line as
>>soon as I could have while I was still going less than 40, thus forcing
>>him to either brake or change lanes.
>
>
> Yeah, you could have been a bigger asshole than you were.


LOL - you think I was an asshole here?

How did I inconvenience the other driver?



>
>
>>So, am I unreasonable to expect a little courtesy in this situation?
>
>
> He showed you courtsey, he maintained course and speed. Your desire to
> have him move for you was the opposite of courteous.
>
>
>>Or is the other driver unreasonable to not afford me the courtesy of
>>merging without having to brake and go behind him.

Whatever.

>
>
> In a situation where you could have merged safely and cleanly without
> causing disruption to others,

How did I cause ANY disruption to anyone but myself?

> you chose a course that would disrupt the
> only other driver in the area, because you wanted him to bow to you and
> show you courtsey. Now you're upset because he didn't do as you wanted.
>

Yeah, I was ****ed that he didn't move left. However, his course was
not affected in the least.


>
>>Bear in mind that by the time I hit the merge point I was going 65-70
>>mph and he was only going about 65, since I passed him as soon as I was
>>forced to merge behind him - and also bear in mind that there was no
>>traffic anywhere near either of us that would have prevented him from
>>moving over one lane.
>
>
> You're earlier description indicated that you punched it on to the
> shoulder,

No, an acceleration lane (in this case, as I stated, a very generous
one) is not the same as the shoulder.

Had this been a typical freeway in a big city, I would have punched it
since I would have known space was limited.

> implying that you merged in front of him...

Re-read my original post - I never merged in front of him. I could have
if I had punched it, but I see no reason to do that when there are very
few cars on the road in what is essentially a rural area.

> this post is
> begining to stink like the environment under a bridge.
>
>
>>I even considered the possibility that he wanted to exit to the right
>>about 3/4 of a mile ahead - he didn't, so throw that idea out.
>
>
> How about you don't screw around with other drivers who are minding
> their own business demanding they get out of your way,


How did I "demand" he get out of my way?

If I had ignored him, that would have been demanding. Maybe next time I
will - nah, I probably won't.

> when the only
> reason they are in your way is because you came charging at them.

As I stated, I was using the full length of the acceleration lane -
which prevented my merging any earlier to gradually come up to the speed
limit of 65 - that is hardly "charging".

> You
> had every opertunity to make a smooth merge,

No - I did everything I could to make a smooth merge. My only other
options were to be slothful, which is not in my nature or to floor it,
which is also not in my nature unless I have to.

> you chose to make it
> difficult. You chose to demand another driver who had no obligation to
> yield, yield to you. Now you're upset he didn't bow to you. I see your
> kind often on the road. The road isn't a place to excerise your games of
> control.

At the very least, the other driver was the oblivious one. At the
worst, he was the ones playing games of "control".


> Next time aim for the gaps behind or in front of the driver in
> the right lane instead of his passenger side door.
>
>

gpsman wrote:
> barking pumpkin wrote: <brevity snip>
>

> Your bad.
>

Well, sort of - if you insist, however, I didn't cause the other driver
any problems.

> It's your responsibility to merge with the flow of traffic causing as
> little conflict as practical.

Fair enough

> An ample accleration lane and only one
> vehicle within a half-mile in either direction makes that a pretty
> simple proposition. When two dickheads merge upon one another is when
> lots of calamity sometimes begins.

Which is precisely why I braked even though I was a couple car lengths
ahead of the other driver when the solid white line finally allowed me
to merge legally.

>
> If I had been the other driver under those conditions I would have
> moved L at the first sign there was a likely conflict with our
> vectors... just more safe for me and not much of an "inconvenience".

Exactly the kind of reasonableness I was hoping for.

No big deal - had this happened in a big city - or even a moderate sized
one, it would have born no mention.

Just emphasizes my experience that drivers in small towns aren't any
worse than they are in cities - there are just more of them in highly
populated areas.

> -----
>
> - gpsman
>