CJ starting problems

Here's the story, bare with me, 81 CJ7, starter died about 2 months ago,
went and got a rebuilt, installed it, but about every 3rd to 5th time it
wouldn't start, just go err, turn key back try again and it would work, only
had it on the road for about a month, not my daily driver so probably 20
starts, and 5 to 7 no starts. Just had a new engine put in, re-manned, 258,
starter wont start it, well I shouldn't say that, will now start every 5th
time. Engine place said don't use it and get a new starter, they checked all
electrical, no problem, checked starter and said starter was shot, place I
got starter from tested it, said nothing wrong, but I got new one anyway,
still no start, I can see were it is taking off corners of flywheel so don't
want to try anymore. First remanned starter was a Champion, second one
Bosch. Any ideas from anyone? Looks to me like starter gear is not going far
enough out to engage flywheel. These things aren't rocket science so I don't
realy know what to do. When I got second starter I asked if there were
different starters for different years, he checked, something like 77 to 86
all the same, so no luck there. If it just happened after engine swap I
would say something wrong there, but it was like that before.

You sure could be describing flaky connections on the solenoid on the
fender... That solenoid needs a clean ground too.

Good luck, we are heading off for 4 days camping in a couple minutes. I
blew another hub 2 weeks ago so am on the last spare part you sent me
now... Gotta go warn hubs, one is already.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Greg wrote:
>
> Here's the story, bare with me, 81 CJ7, starter died about 2 months ago,
> went and got a rebuilt, installed it, but about every 3rd to 5th time it
> wouldn't start, just go err, turn key back try again and it would work, only
> had it on the road for about a month, not my daily driver so probably 20
> starts, and 5 to 7 no starts. Just had a new engine put in, re-manned, 258,
> starter wont start it, well I shouldn't say that, will now start every 5th
> time. Engine place said don't use it and get a new starter, they checked all
> electrical, no problem, checked starter and said starter was shot, place I
> got starter from tested it, said nothing wrong, but I got new one anyway,
> still no start, I can see were it is taking off corners of flywheel so don't
> want to try anymore. First remanned starter was a Champion, second one
> Bosch. Any ideas from anyone? Looks to me like starter gear is not going far
> enough out to engage flywheel. These things aren't rocket science so I don't
> realy know what to do. When I got second starter I asked if there were
> different starters for different years, he checked, something like 77 to 86
> all the same, so no luck there. If it just happened after engine swap I
> would say something wrong there, but it was like that before.

Hi greg,
You have a broken tooth on the flywheel ring gear.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Greg wrote:
>
> Here's the story, bare with me, 81 CJ7, starter died about 2 months ago,
> went and got a rebuilt, installed it, but about every 3rd to 5th time it
> wouldn't start, just go err, turn key back try again and it would work, only
> had it on the road for about a month, not my daily driver so probably 20
> starts, and 5 to 7 no starts. Just had a new engine put in, re-manned, 258,
> starter wont start it, well I shouldn't say that, will now start every 5th
> time. Engine place said don't use it and get a new starter, they checked all
> electrical, no problem, checked starter and said starter was shot, place I
> got starter from tested it, said nothing wrong, but I got new one anyway,
> still no start, I can see were it is taking off corners of flywheel so don't
> want to try anymore. First remanned starter was a Champion, second one
> Bosch. Any ideas from anyone? Looks to me like starter gear is not going far
> enough out to engage flywheel. These things aren't rocket science so I don't
> realy know what to do. When I got second starter I asked if there were
> different starters for different years, he checked, something like 77 to 86
> all the same, so no luck there. If it just happened after engine swap I
> would say something wrong there, but it was like that before.

Thanks, after I posted I did a little googleing, and sure enough, post on
solenoid was corroded. Googleing came up with a sight saying that when a
starter goes it corrodes that post from heat build up, so thanks, you were
right, just 10 minutes too slow .
On a side note, what the hell are you doing to those hubs?

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> You sure could be describing flaky connections on the solenoid on the
> fender... That solenoid needs a clean ground too.
>
> Good luck, we are heading off for 4 days camping in a couple minutes. I
> blew another hub 2 weeks ago so am on the last spare part you sent me
> now... Gotta go warn hubs, one is already.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Greg wrote:
>>
>> Here's the story, bare with me, 81 CJ7, starter died about 2 months
>> ago,
>> went and got a rebuilt, installed it, but about every 3rd to 5th time it
>> wouldn't start, just go err, turn key back try again and it would work,
>> only
>> had it on the road for about a month, not my daily driver so probably 20
>> starts, and 5 to 7 no starts. Just had a new engine put in, re-manned,
>> 258,
>> starter wont start it, well I shouldn't say that, will now start every
>> 5th
>> time. Engine place said don't use it and get a new starter, they checked
>> all
>> electrical, no problem, checked starter and said starter was shot, place
>> I
>> got starter from tested it, said nothing wrong, but I got new one anyway,
>> still no start, I can see were it is taking off corners of flywheel so
>> don't
>> want to try anymore. First remanned starter was a Champion, second one
>> Bosch. Any ideas from anyone? Looks to me like starter gear is not going
>> far
>> enough out to engage flywheel. These things aren't rocket science so I
>> don't
>> realy know what to do. When I got second starter I asked if there were
>> different starters for different years, he checked, something like 77 to
>> 86
>> all the same, so no luck there. If it just happened after engine swap I
>> would say something wrong there, but it was like that before.

http://www.billhughes.com/mikeTwistJeep.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O


Greg wrote:
>
> Thanks, after I posted I did a little googleing, and sure enough, post on
> solenoid was corroded. Googleing came up with a sight saying that when a
> starter goes it corrodes that post from heat build up, so thanks, you were
> right, just 10 minutes too slow .
> On a side note, what the hell are you doing to those hubs?

I think my tires are killing the hubs. The 33x9.5 BFG muds just don't
spin so put amazing amounts of torque on the hubs and engine mounts.
Especially when I am alternating between ice pans and mud on the
trails. Did 70 miles on ice and dirt before the last one exploded 1/4
mile from the destination.... Had to winch it or fix it in the dark. I
winched it and fixed it next day.

I am almost afraid to put really strong hubs in there. I don't want to
find out what the next weakest link is......

Mike

Greg wrote:
>
> Thanks, after I posted I did a little googleing, and sure enough, post on
> solenoid was corroded. Googleing came up with a sight saying that when a
> starter goes it corrodes that post from heat build up, so thanks, you were
> right, just 10 minutes too slow .
> On a side note, what the hell are you doing to those hubs?
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You sure could be describing flaky connections on the solenoid on the
> > fender... That solenoid needs a clean ground too.
> >
> > Good luck, we are heading off for 4 days camping in a couple minutes. I
> > blew another hub 2 weeks ago so am on the last spare part you sent me
> > now... Gotta go warn hubs, one is already.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Greg wrote:
> >>
> >> Here's the story, bare with me, 81 CJ7, starter died about 2 months
> >> ago,
> >> went and got a rebuilt, installed it, but about every 3rd to 5th time it
> >> wouldn't start, just go err, turn key back try again and it would work,
> >> only
> >> had it on the road for about a month, not my daily driver so probably 20
> >> starts, and 5 to 7 no starts. Just had a new engine put in, re-manned,
> >> 258,
> >> starter wont start it, well I shouldn't say that, will now start every
> >> 5th
> >> time. Engine place said don't use it and get a new starter, they checked
> >> all
> >> electrical, no problem, checked starter and said starter was shot, place
> >> I
> >> got starter from tested it, said nothing wrong, but I got new one anyway,
> >> still no start, I can see were it is taking off corners of flywheel so
> >> don't
> >> want to try anymore. First remanned starter was a Champion, second one
> >> Bosch. Any ideas from anyone? Looks to me like starter gear is not going
> >> far
> >> enough out to engage flywheel. These things aren't rocket science so I
> >> don't
> >> realy know what to do. When I got second starter I asked if there were
> >> different starters for different years, he checked, something like 77 to
> >> 86
> >> all the same, so no luck there. If it just happened after engine swap I
> >> would say something wrong there, but it was like that before.

Lol! Yup, things like that with high traction 33x9.5 mud tires and
well.....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"L.W.(ßill) Hughes III" wrote:
>
> http://www.billhughes.com/mikeTwistJeep.jpg
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
>
> Greg wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, after I posted I did a little googleing, and sure enough, post on
> > solenoid was corroded. Googleing came up with a sight saying that when a
> > starter goes it corrodes that post from heat build up, so thanks, you were
> > right, just 10 minutes too slow .
> > On a side note, what the hell are you doing to those hubs?

Warn make "hub fuses". Has anyone used them ?

http://www.warn.com/truck/axles/hub_fuse.shtml

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> I think my tires are killing the hubs. The 33x9.5 BFG muds just don't
> spin so put amazing amounts of torque on the hubs and engine mounts.
> Especially when I am alternating between ice pans and mud on the
> trails. Did 70 miles on ice and dirt before the last one exploded 1/4
> mile from the destination.... Had to winch it or fix it in the dark. I
> winched it and fixed it next day.
>
> I am almost afraid to put really strong hubs in there. I don't want to
> find out what the next weakest link is......
>
> Mike

I changed the header seeing as this thread went sideways. Greg fixed
the solenoid.

I easily explode the stock Jeep hubs themselves, Greg sent me two extras
and I am on the last one, so those fuses look like an interesting option
with the warn hubs, thanks for the link. I am going to ask about them
at my local 4x4 shop to see what they think about them for our
wheeling. We have impacts.

We are hard on parts. Our trail muck usually has a hard bottom so when
you go from 3rd low to the max chewing through a foot of corn snow on an
ice pack to hitting solid bottom, it gives things quite the jolt.

I am going to post a couple photos of the trip a couple weeks ago when I
blew the last hub over on alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4.

I was only 1/4 mile from getting to camp after 70 miles of insane bush
trails and detours around major washouts.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Dave Milne wrote:
>
> Warn make "hub fuses". Has anyone used them ?
>
> http://www.warn.com/truck/axles/hub_fuse.shtml
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I think my tires are killing the hubs. The 33x9.5 BFG muds just don't
> > spin so put amazing amounts of torque on the hubs and engine mounts.
> > Especially when I am alternating between ice pans and mud on the
> > trails. Did 70 miles on ice and dirt before the last one exploded 1/4
> > mile from the destination.... Had to winch it or fix it in the dark. I
> > winched it and fixed it next day.
> >
> > I am almost afraid to put really strong hubs in there. I don't want to
> > find out what the next weakest link is......
> >
> > Mike

Anywhere else you could put them Mike ? I don't have access to that group
from my ISP, and it doesn't seem to be hosted by google either ?

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...

> I am going to post a couple photos of the trip a couple weeks ago when I
> blew the last hub over on alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4.