Body Control Module 98 Caravan-problem?

philthy wrote:

> qaftermarket is already there and if someone wants to spend 400 grand they
> can access everything with a laptop losing the scantool
>
>
> damnnickname wrote:
>
>
>>You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated. wait
>>untill the newer models with this CAN-C and CAN -B bus systems start
>>having problems. right now they are in the dealers,
>>
>>Glenn

And there's only so much a computer can tell you in a real-world
troubleshooting situation. But I guess we're into "replace this-or-that
black box" situation with these systems anyway. But still won't be a
whole lot of help in broken or intemittent wiring situations.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Bill Putney wrote:


> ...intemittent...

intermittent

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

In article >, philthy >
wrote:

> > damnnickname wrote:
> >
> > You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated. wait
> > untill the newer models with this CAN-C and CAN -B bus systems start
> > having problems. right now they are in the dealers,
> >
> > Glenn
>
> qaftermarket is already there and if someone wants to spend 400 grand they
> can access everything with a laptop losing the scantool

400 grand?? What are you talking about?

that's not really true! a scantool can watch a sensor or function that occurs
and you can watch voltage ramp up higher than expected with a broken wire /open
circuit for that circuit or watch amperage ramp up with a corroded wire and
voltage drop or a outright failure of a blown fuse and record a fault code such
as can c and b do now and obd2
alot of times a failure in one black box will set a fault in another black box
but you need to be able to access them all to see that as in door modules and
instrument panels and abs and srs and tire pressure monitoring systems such a
way to see this is with the software i mentioned

Bill Putney wrote:

> philthy wrote:
>
> > qaftermarket is already there and if someone wants to spend 400 grand they
> > can access everything with a laptop losing the scantool all together
> >
> >
> > damnnickname wrote:
> >
> >
> >>You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated. wait
> >>untill the newer models with this CAN-C and CAN -B bus systems start
> >>having problems. right now they are in the dealers,
> >>
> >>Glenn
>
> And there's only so much a computer can tell you in a real-world
> troubleshooting situation. But I guess we're into "replace this-or-that
> black box" situation with these systems anyway. But still won't be a
> whole lot of help in broken or intemittent wiring situations.
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> address with the letter 'x')

oops 4k is that better

aarcuda69062 wrote:

> In article >, philthy >
> wrote:
>
> > > damnnickname wrote:
> > >
> > > You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated. wait
> > > untill the newer models with this CAN-C and CAN -B bus systems start
> > > having problems. right now they are in the dealers,
> > >
> > > Glenn
> >
> > qaftermarket is already there and if someone wants to spend 400 grand they
> > can access everything with a laptop losing the scantool
>
> 400 grand?? What are you talking about?

"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "maxpower" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > >
> > > "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "damnnickname" > wrote in message
> > > >
lkaboutautos.com...
> > > > > You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated.
> > wait
> > > > > untill the newer models with this CAN-C and CAN -B bus systems
start
> > > > > having problems. right now they are in the dealers,
> > > > >
> > > > Glenn, this is completely stupid. Some states - mine for example
> > (Oregon)
> > > > once the
> > > > vehicle reaches 100K miles they REFUSE to put mileage on the title.
> > They
> > > > ONLY put
> > >
> > >
> > > Ok contact your congressman and tell him that
> > >
> > > > mileage on the title if the title is changing hands if mileage is
> under
> > > > 100K. In other
> > >
> > > > words, the State of Oregon has determined that a vehicle after 100K
> had
> > > > completely
> > >
> > > 2 different things
> > >
> > > > depreciated and a vehicle with 100K on it is worth the same money as
a
> > > > vehicle with
> > > > 200K on it. Oregon did not used to do this but started doing it
this
> > way
> > > > after they
> > > > replaced the computer system at the DMV. (another horror story for
a
> > > > different post)
> > > > I very strongly suspect that the feds don't require mileage tracking
> on
> > > > vehicles after
> > > > 100K which is why the state is getting away with it.
> > > >
> > > > From a value standpoint it is very true that at some point it makes
no
> > > > difference
> > > > how much mileage is on a vehicle in terms of it's value. Would you
> for
> > > > example
> > >
> > > Purchase a used car service contract and extend the mileage and tell
me
> it
> > > makes no difference to Chrysler.
> >
> > How many companies offer used car service contracts on vehicles that
> > have 150K+ miles on them?
> >
> > Google Chrysler....get the 800 number and
> > > call them ok? Chrysler and every other manufacturer have guidelines
that
> > > they follow. this is one of them. we don't make the rules!!!
> >
> > You are not listening which isn't unusual.
> >
> > OK, so Chrysler and it's service contract companies think a car value is
> > still
> > significantly affected by mileage even at the 100K Perfectly fine.
> >
> > > > Clearly all Chrysler would have to do is
> > > > make a
> > > > policy that they will change BMC mileage to anything you want as
long
> as
> > > the
> > > > mileage figure you want is over some figure - such as 150K
> >
> > So, let me ask you - do you think that Chrysler and it's service
contract
> > companies still think car value is significantly affected by mileage at
> 150K
> > miles?
> > What about 200K? What about 250K?
> >
> > At some mileage point Chrysler's service
> > contract companies aren't going to write a contract on a used vehicle.
> >
> > Do I know what that point is? No. Do I care? No. That is why I
> > said the statement SOME FIGURE.
> >
> > I DO KNOW that that point exists. If you believe otherwise then please
> > inform the group what service contract companies out there will write
> > contracts on 250K+ mile cars and I'll go to the junkyard and collect
> > a whole passel of them for $100 per car, put service contracts on them
> > and just start driving them until they conk out. Within a year I'll get
> > them all fixed for free according to your logic.
> >
> > So all Chrysler needs to do is say they will happily reprogram the BCM
> > to ANY MILEAGE FIGURE THAT IS BEYOND THIS POINT for
> > a fee.
> >
> > Did you not understand this? Did you not get it?
> >
> > Ted
> >
> >
> You lack common sense Ted, Think about, just think ok?
> fraud /fr?d/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[frawd]
> Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
> -noun 1. deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence,
> perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.
> 2. a particular instance of such deceit or trickery: mail fraud;
> election frauds.
>

Your entire argument is based on the idea that changing the mileage
constitutes fraud because it affects the value of the vehicle.

You don't seem to understand that changing the mileage of a 250,000
mile car to 200,000 miles does not affect it's value because to Kelly
Blue Book, the warranty companies, and everyone else, a vehicle
is used up at 150K miles. (or 170K miles or whatever arbitrary
mileage cutoff they determine)

In other words, beyond a certain mileage it makes no difference
what the vehicle mileage is in terms of valuation of the vehicle. Thus,
you cannot committ fraud if you were to change the mileage of a
280K mile vehicle to 200K miles because it won't affect the value.

In any case, if you want to talk about fraud let's talk about who the
largest committers of vehicle resale fraud are. Vehicle dealers,
that's who:

http://info.insure.com/auto/Flood-damagedcars.htm

"...An estimated 500,000 cars were damaged by hurricanes last year.
Unfortunately, many of these vehicles have been purchased by
dishonest AUTO DEALERS, cleaned up and then sold, with their flood
damage history illegally hidden, according to the
Insurance Information Institute (I.I.I.)...."

Seems to me that unless Chrysler requires the BCM to be returned
and they plug it in and obtain the mileage from it, (in which case there's
no need for mileage figures to be written down on the paperwork
that is sent with it) before programming the new one, and they program
the new one ONLY to the mileage the pulled out of the old BCM, that
this is like having the fox in charge of the henhouse.

I don't see that changing the mileage on a high mileage car to another
high mileage figure is of any consequence or is fraudulent.

Ted

"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>
> Ted, Im not going to get into these Childish debates with you. I don't
write
> the guidelines, I don't work for Chrysler, I just go by the rules and
> regulations.

That's always your answer. In other words if you don't like abortion
since it's currently the rule to allow it, you would not consider any
discussion
to change it and would tell people arguing to change it to shut up and go
away.

Ted

"philthy" > wrote in message
...
> that's not really true! a scantool can watch a sensor or function that
occurs
> and you can watch voltage ramp up higher than expected with a broken wire
/open
> circuit for that circuit or watch amperage ramp up with a corroded wire
and
> voltage drop or a outright failure of a blown fuse and record a fault code
such
> as can c and b do now and obd2
> alot of times a failure in one black box will set a fault in another
black box
> but you need to be able to access them all to see that as in door modules
and
> instrument panels and abs and srs and tire pressure monitoring systems
such a
> way to see this is with the software i mentioned
>

Your assuming the operator of the software is a diagnostician and not a
parts-changer.

I've watched this kind of thing happen in my business, computer networks,
and there's so many parallels to the auto industry it's like the are the
same
industry. Every year the diagnostic software to find problems gets more and
more advanced, has more and more features, and in the hands of a competent
tech, can find problems faster and faster. However every year, the numbers
of competent techs shrink. The techs get lazy and figure that the software
is
so smart that they don't have to learn how the systems work anymore since
the
software will do it for them. And
the software gets so much more complex to use that it takes a lot longer to
learn how to use all the features, and so the techs once again get lazy and
just
learn to use a couple of features of the software and don't really take
advantage
of it.

In any case I really don't understand why the $4K software is required.
There's plenty of horsepower available in even the cheap embedded computers
today that the automakers should be able to put all the diagnostic stuff
right
in the car computer, and an Ethernet jack under the dash, and you plug
in your laptop, fire up a web browser, and access the car computer and
you have all the same stuff as you get from the $4K scanner.

Ted

First of all I'm not arguing. And this is my last reply on this. I simply
replied to the OP how the mileage has to be set into the BCM and stated
that was a guideline that we had to follow, you are the one that twisted
it into a "value of the vehicle" Once again, a little common sense is
needed on your last post about the dealers buying and selling used
vehicles.

Unscrupulous salvage operators and dealers often try to conceal the fact
that the vehicles they are selling have been damaged by a natural
disaster,

The word dealer...... Means just thatealer
Noun
1. Someone who purchases and maintains an inventory of goods to be sold.

2. A firm engaged in trading.

I cant find anywhere where it says NEW CAR DEALER?

Have a nice Christmas

Glenn

damnnickname wrote:
> You got it!!!The mileage is stored in the BCM and can only be reset by
> Chrysler and I dont mean the dealer. You lucky thats the only problem you
> got from swapping out those modules, I h ave heard alot more horry stories
> then what you have
>
> Glenn Beasley
> Chrysler Tech


I just had the BCM replaced in a 1996 Granbd Voyager, and when I went
to pick it up, I noticed some different behavior and I was wondering if
you could give me some advice.

When I open the door the "dinging" goes off like I have my lights on
even though they are off.

When I start the car, turn the lights on then turn the car off--- I
turn off the lights and the parking lights stay on for a number of
minutes--- It used to be the head lights.


There are a couple of other things that are quirky, My question is
could the part be

installed incorrectly?
Programmed incorrectly?

I have more problems caused by the BCM going out

Thanks

Tom