Wireless keys blanks

On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 05:15:01 -0500, "NotMe" > wrote:

>
>"bllsht" > wrote in message
.. .
>| On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 01:25:58 -0500, "NotMe" > wrote:
>|
>| >"bllsht" > wrote in message
>| .. .
>| >| On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:23:24 -0400, MoPar Man > wrote:
>| >|
>| >| >maxpower wrote:
>| >| >
>| >| >> > I have an 04 Mini Van with wireless locks and electric doors.
>| >| >> > I need to replace one of the keys
>| >| >
>| >| >> If you are looking to get the job done fast take it to the dealer.
>| >| >> They will sell you the key and program it. The key must be
>| >| >> programmed by the dealers scan tool. Some locksmiths can also
>| >| >> do this for you. The only way you can program that key yourself
>| >| >> would be if you already had I 2 keys programmed and this would
>| >| >> make the 3rd.
>| >| >
>| >| >I take it that you're describing the "Sentry Key" system:
>| >| >
>| >| >http://www.ocls.com/sentry_key.htm
>| >| >
>| >| >Is it the case the replacement key is in any way modified, programmed
>or
>| >| >altered during the process, or is it that all keys come pre-programmed
>| >| >with a unique code, and it's a matter of training the car's computer
>to
>| >| >recognize and respond to the replacement key's code?
>| >|
>| >| Both are the case. Also, once a key has been programmed to one
>| >| vehicle, it cannot be programmed to another.
>| >|
>| >| >
>| >| >And if a key is stolen, you have to take the car to the dealer to
>| >| >reprogram the computer so that it will no longer respond to the stolen
>| >| >key - which is something you can't do at home or can't be done by a
>| >| >locksmith?
>| >|
>| >| Anyone with a DRBIII and the vehicle's access code can do it.
>| >
>| >
>| >Any 'how to' instructions to be had on the internet?
>| >|
>| >
>|
>| I don't know. Try google.
>
>Did that early on -- No joy -- seems everthing has a price, which is fine
>but at least sell me valid information that I can use at a fair price.

If information is what you're after, you got it *free* here, yet you
are still not satisfied. Yes, somewhere along the line you'll have to
pay for something.


Facts:

1. You need a new key.

2. It must be cut.

3. It must be programmed to your vehicle.

Options:

1. If you have 2 working keys, you can program a new one yourself. You
buy the key, have it cut & program it yourself using instructions in
your owner's manual. Your missing key will still start your car.

2. Buy the key and have it cut. Take your new key and all old keys to
dealer or somebody with a DRBIII. They can delete all keys from memory
and program the ones you have, along with the new one. Only the keys
in your possession will start your car.

3. Buy a blank key, a DRBIII, and the required key cutting tools. Have
at it!




>
>FWIW I lost these somewhere in N Dallas.
>
> http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/laf/821851944.html
>
>On the very far off chance someone on this group runs across them.
>

Full-Quoter bull**** wrote:


> Facts:
>
> 1. You need a new key.
>
> 2. It must be cut.

I'm not sure about that. Is it a given that keys with Sentry-Key
feature that keys need to be uniquely cut for each car?

Perhaps all keys for cars of a given make, model and year with Sentry
Key are physically the same?

> 3. It must be programmed to your vehicle.

I still say that it's the vehicle that gets programmed for the key - not
the other way around.

"MoPar Man" > wrote in message
...
> Full-Quoter bull**** wrote:
>
>
> > Facts:
> >
> > 1. You need a new key.
> >
> > 2. It must be cut.
>
> I'm not sure about that. Is it a given that keys with Sentry-Key
> feature that keys need to be uniquely cut for each car?
>
> Perhaps all keys for cars of a given make, model and year with Sentry
> Key are physically the same?
>
> > 3. It must be programmed to your vehicle.
>
> I still say that it's the vehicle that gets programmed for the key - not
> the other way around.


Once again, Google rolling or hoping code and you may understand why it
cant be done.

Glenn

maxpower wrote:

> Once again, Google rolling or hoping code and you may understand why it
> cant be done.

Why haven't you replied to my previous post about rolling-codes applying
only to the key fob and not the key itself?

Can you explain how an rf-energized key can power a micro-controller to
generate the rolling code without a battery, and save the last code it
used?

Why would a key need to impliment rolling-code, given that the code
stored in the key can't be sniffed over the air like the keyfob can?

On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:51:59 -0400, MoPar Man > wrote:

>Full-Quoter bull**** wrote:
>
>
>> Facts:
>>
>> 1. You need a new key.
>>
>> 2. It must be cut.
>
>I'm not sure about that. Is it a given that keys with Sentry-Key
>feature that keys need to be uniquely cut for each car?

Not sure a new key needs to be cut? How do you propose they turn the
ignition cylinder with a key that hasn't been cut to match the
cylinder?

SKIM has nothing to do with how the key is cut. You can take all the
tumblers out of the ign cylinder so any key will turn it, but SKIM
will still do what SKIM does.... It won't let the vehicle run if the
key hasn't been programmed to the vehicle.

>
>Perhaps all keys for cars of a given make, model and year with Sentry
>Key are physically the same?
>
>> 3. It must be programmed to your vehicle.
>
>I still say that it's the vehicle that gets programmed for the key - not
>the other way around.

What you "still say" doesn't mean jack **** if it's wrong.

You asked how it works and I told you. Believe it or don't. I really
don't care. A key can only be programmed to one vehicle. Period!

On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:45:17 -0400, MoPar Man > wrote:

>maxpower wrote:
>
>> Once again, Google rolling or hoping code and you may understand why it
>> cant be done.
>
>Why haven't you replied to my previous post about rolling-codes applying
>only to the key fob and not the key itself?
>
>Can you explain how an rf-energized key can power a micro-controller to
>generate the rolling code without a battery, and save the last code it
>used?
>
>Why would a key need to impliment rolling-code, given that the code
>stored in the key can't be sniffed over the air like the keyfob can?

Not being able to program a key to more than one vehicle has nothing
to do with rolling codes.

"bllsht" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:45:17 -0400, MoPar Man > wrote:
>
> >maxpower wrote:
> >
> >> Once again, Google rolling or hoping code and you may understand why it
> >> cant be done.
> >
> >Why haven't you replied to my previous post about rolling-codes applying
> >only to the key fob and not the key itself?
> >
> >Can you explain how an rf-energized key can power a micro-controller to
> >generate the rolling code without a battery, and save the last code it
> >used?
> >
> >Why would a key need to impliment rolling-code, given that the code
> >stored in the key can't be sniffed over the air like the keyfob can?
>
> Not being able to program a key to more than one vehicle has nothing
> to do with rolling codes.
>

"Yawn"

In article >, MoPar Man >
wrote:

> maxpower wrote:
>
> > Once again, Google rolling or hoping code and you may understand why it
> > cant be done.
>
> Why haven't you replied to my previous post about rolling-codes applying
> only to the key fob and not the key itself?
>
> Can you explain how an rf-energized key can power a micro-controller to
> generate the rolling code without a battery, and save the last code it
> used?
>
> Why would a key need to impliment rolling-code, given that the code
> stored in the key can't be sniffed over the air like the keyfob can?

My service information states that the rolling code is between the
SKREEM and the PCM on the PCI bus.

The SKREEM reads the RFI chip in the SKIM key, the SKREEM also has a
secret code programmed in it that the SKIM key has to recognize to
enable a valid start sequence.

Thusly, when a new key is procured, it has to be cut to match the
tumblers in the lock cylinder, it has to be programmed to recognize the
secret code in the SKREEM and the SKREEM has to be programmed to
recognize the new SKIM key.

Odds are I'm right since I've successfully programmed a number of new
SKIM keys to replace lost keys on late model ChryCo vehicles and have
watched the progression of the process on my DRB3.

maxpower wrote:

> > Not being able to program a key to more than one vehicle has nothing
> > to do with rolling codes.
>
> "Yawn"

http://www.afs-securitysystems.com/Transponder-Key.php

----------------------
There are currently three types of vehicle transponder system:

Fixed Electronic Code
Each key has a different electronic code written to it. These codes are
permanent, they are not altered when the engine is started.

Rolling Electronic Code
Each key has a different electronic code, which is re-written each time
the engine is started. Only the immobilizer manufacturer knows the
procedure by which the code is changed.

Cryptographic Electronic Code
The transponder memory is protected using bi-directional encryption of
data. Internal algorithms are configured to interpret the messages sent
from transponder to ECU. This is similar to password protection.

Keys can be Cut to Code, Keys made to Locks, Locks made to suit your
key, Transponder keys copied,Crypto keys programmed,and Remote Key Fobs
supplied and coded.
----------------------

Ok, so which type of system has Chrysler used, and on which car line?

I still say that:

1) for a fixed code key, the key could be used to start any number of
cars if the key fits the ignition and if the key was programmed into the
car's computer beforehand.

2) even in the rolling-code situation, as in the keyfob situation, a
floater key could be used between 2 cars because rolling codes use
code-jumping or code lookup as a backup for bad reads. For example, if
I press the lock/unlock button on my key fob a dozen times but I'm out
of range of my car, when I'm in range and press the buttons the car will
get a code that it's not expecting, but it will be a code that it would
have expected in the future. Same would happen for a key transponder.

3) the need for a rolling code or crypto-code keys is not clear, except
for very expensive cars.

See also:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.08/carkey_pr.html

No explanation given in that article how any transpoder system was
circumvented except through the use of key-substitution, or hooking in a
jury-rigged ignition computer, or a back-door hand-brake pumping
sequence (as in the Honda).

And Glenn, you still haven't explained what these are for:

http://www.bypasskit.com/categories.aspx?catid=14

aarcuda69062 wrote:

> My service information states that the rolling code is between the
> SKREEM and the PCM on the PCI bus.
>
> The SKREEM reads the RFI chip in the SKIM key, the SKREEM also has a
> secret code programmed in it that the SKIM key has to recognize to
> enable a valid start sequence.

That doesn't sound like rolling code.

That sounds more like this:

-------------------
Cryptographic Electronic Code

The transponder memory is protected using bi-directional encryption of
data. Internal algorithms are configured to interpret the messages sent
from transponder to ECU. This is similar to password protection.
------------------

For both fixed and rolling code key systems, the key does not recieve
any signal from the car's computer. It only transmits a code. It's a
uni-directional system (key -> car). In theory, both a fixed key and
rolling code key could be used on 2 different cars (naturally with
exactly the same physical key-cut).

With cryptographic keys, there is bi-directional data transfer (key <->
car) and this would allow a key to be coded to a specific car.

Which chrysler vehicles have this Cryptographic code system?