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  #331  
Old July 15th 05, 07:40 PM
C.H.
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On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:42:52 +0000, 223rem wrote:

> C.H. wrote:
>
>
>> And I have never seen a car more uninspired and boring than a Toyota
>> Corolla.

>
> And yet you praise the Chevy Cobalt?! You're absurd. A friend of mine has
> a Corolla, and it is a very nice little car.


I praised a Cobalt SS, which is quite different from a base Cobalt.
Nothing absurd about it.

Chris
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  #332  
Old July 15th 05, 07:42 PM
C.H.
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On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 08:02:53 -0700, fbloogyudsr wrote:

> "223rem" > wrote
>> C.H. wrote:
>>> And I have never seen a car more uninspired and boring than a Toyota
>>> Corolla.

>>
>> And yet you praise the Chevy Cobalt?! You're absurd. A friend of mine
>> has a Corolla, and it is a very nice little car.

>
> Especially amusing considering the Corolla and (Geo) Chevy Prism are the
> same car!


The Geo Prism is just as boring and as uninspired as the Corolla. Where
did I say that I like these wannabe GMs from the Far East?

Chris
  #333  
Old July 15th 05, 07:54 PM
C.H.
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On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 05:04:48 -0700, N8N wrote:

>
>
> C.H. wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:05:00 -0700, N8N wrote:
>>
>> The Lumina has been out of production for years. The new Malibu seems ok
>> and in the price range of a new Cavalier you won't find much even from
>> Japan, at least no 4-seat sedans.
>>

> Hyundai? Not Japanese but less expensive and more appealing.


Less expensive but more junky. True horror-brakes, horrible quality,
designed by a committee and only selling because some people are stupid
enough to think that a 10 year warranty makes up for an unreliable POS.

>> The Jetta on the other hand has major reliability problems and I
>> personally despise it, YMMV.

>
> Balls. It would be my pick of the group. Probably will outlast any two
> of the other cars mentioned.


Hahahahaha! I see how the Golfs and Boras (German Jetta) of my friends in
Germany break. Engine and electronics problems galore. Thanks, reliability
wise Id rather take a V6 Malibu than the turbo Jetta.

>> And I have never seen a car more uninspired and boring than a Toyota
>> Corolla.
>>

> At least it's competent, handles well, and is available with a decent
> manual transmission. Probably more reliable than anything GM makes as
> well.


I can't say I like the Corolla's handling much. Of course if you love
understeer you may think differently. Before you rip my head off, I don't
like the handling of any FWD sedan much.

>> If they really are trying they are failing miserably at it.
>>

> Denial - it's not just a river in Egypt anymore.


That you are in denial is indeed true. Kudos for admitting it.

> There's a reason people don't buy GM products - and it's not "bias" or
> "hatred" much as you'd wish to call it that.


Chevrolet is the best selling passenger car brand in America. GM has the
largest market share of any manufacturer in the US. To put it quite
bluntly, even in 2004 the numbers of Toyota (12.2%), Honda (8.2%) and
Nissan (5.8%) together don't reach GM's market share (27.3%) even though
SUV sales were in a slump.

To claim that 'nobody buys GM' is plain stupid.

Chris
  #334  
Old July 15th 05, 08:52 PM
N8N
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C.H. wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 05:04:48 -0700, N8N wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > C.H. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:05:00 -0700, N8N wrote:
> >>
> >> The Lumina has been out of production for years. The new Malibu seems ok
> >> and in the price range of a new Cavalier you won't find much even from
> >> Japan, at least no 4-seat sedans.
> >>

> > Hyundai? Not Japanese but less expensive and more appealing.

>
> Less expensive but more junky. True horror-brakes, horrible quality,
> designed by a committee and only selling because some people are stupid
> enough to think that a 10 year warranty makes up for an unreliable POS.


Again, if I didn't know who you were talking about, I'd immediately
think of GM rather than Hyundai (well, I don't think GM offers a 10
year warranty.) That said, Hyundai has come a long way since they
first came to the US; their products aren't all that bad, all things
considered.

>
> >> The Jetta on the other hand has major reliability problems and I
> >> personally despise it, YMMV.

> >
> > Balls. It would be my pick of the group. Probably will outlast any two
> > of the other cars mentioned.

>
> Hahahahaha! I see how the Golfs and Boras (German Jetta) of my friends in
> Germany break. Engine and electronics problems galore. Thanks, reliability
> wise Id rather take a V6 Malibu than the turbo Jetta.


My experiences haven't been like that. Yeah, they had some supplier
issues with coil packs and window regulators but their fit and finish
as well as the feel and appearance of the interiors is a cut above, and
the handling is much better than either the US or Japanese competition.
The fact that they are still using the same basic engine, designed
back in the early 70's, for both gasoline and Diesel engines speaks to
the basic goodness of the design.


>
> >> And I have never seen a car more uninspired and boring than a Toyota
> >> Corolla.
> >>

> > At least it's competent, handles well, and is available with a decent
> > manual transmission. Probably more reliable than anything GM makes as
> > well.

>
> I can't say I like the Corolla's handling much. Of course if you love
> understeer you may think differently. Before you rip my head off, I don't
> like the handling of any FWD sedan much.


I'm not nuts about it either, and I actually agree with you. That said
I'd rather have a Corolla than a FWD GM sedan.

>
> >> If they really are trying they are failing miserably at it.
> >>

> > Denial - it's not just a river in Egypt anymore.

>
> That you are in denial is indeed true. Kudos for admitting it.


ummm... not exactly.

>
> > There's a reason people don't buy GM products - and it's not "bias" or
> > "hatred" much as you'd wish to call it that.

>
> Chevrolet is the best selling passenger car brand in America. GM has the
> largest market share of any manufacturer in the US. To put it quite
> bluntly, even in 2004 the numbers of Toyota (12.2%), Honda (8.2%) and
> Nissan (5.8%) together don't reach GM's market share (27.3%) even though
> SUV sales were in a slump.
>
> To claim that 'nobody buys GM' is plain stupid.
>


A lot *fewer* people have been buying GM recently than has been the
case in the past, that's a fact.

nate

  #335  
Old July 15th 05, 09:06 PM
223rem
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C.H. wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 05:04:48 -0700, N8N wrote:
>
>
>>
>>C.H. wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:05:00 -0700, N8N wrote:
>>>
>>>The Lumina has been out of production for years. The new Malibu seems ok
>>>and in the price range of a new Cavalier you won't find much even from
>>>Japan, at least no 4-seat sedans.
>>>

>>
>>Hyundai? Not Japanese but less expensive and more appealing.

>
>
> Less expensive but more junky. True horror-brakes, horrible quality,
> designed by a committee and only selling because some people are stupid
> enough to think that a 10 year warranty makes up for an unreliable POS.
>


They're improving. Look for the Chevy buyers to switch in mass to
Hyundai. The V6 Sonata has *a lot to offer* considering the price.
Why buy a V6 Chevy when you can get a loaded V6 Sonata for less $?
  #336  
Old July 15th 05, 09:12 PM
223rem
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Default

C.H. wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 08:02:53 -0700, fbloogyudsr wrote:
>
>
>>"223rem" > wrote
>>
>>>C.H. wrote:
>>>
>>>>And I have never seen a car more uninspired and boring than a Toyota
>>>>Corolla.
>>>
>>>And yet you praise the Chevy Cobalt?! You're absurd. A friend of mine
>>>has a Corolla, and it is a very nice little car.

>>
>>Especially amusing considering the Corolla and (Geo) Chevy Prism are the
>>same car!

>
>
> The Geo Prism is just as boring and as uninspired as the Corolla. Where
> did I say that I like these wannabe GMs from the Far East?
>
> Chris


Your position doesnt make a lot of sense. First, the Corolla is meant
to be boring. Cars in that class are boring by design.

And exactly what is 'unispired' about it? It is cheap, good fuel economy,
the interior is much better than in a Chevy, good engine, ok handling,
lasts forever, MT available, great resale value. A great daily commuter.
What's not to like?
  #337  
Old July 15th 05, 11:55 PM
C.H.
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Posts: n/a
Default

223rem wrote:

> C.H. wrote:


>> Less expensive but more junky. True horror-brakes, horrible quality,
>> designed by a committee and only selling because some people are stupid
>> enough to think that a 10 year warranty makes up for an unreliable POS.
>>

> They're improving. Look for the Chevy buyers to switch in mass to
> Hyundai. The V6 Sonata has *a lot to offer* considering the price.


If I had a dollar for every time I have heard 'look for chevy buyers to
switch en masse to XXX brand, I could retire.

> Why buy a V6 Chevy when you can get a loaded V6 Sonata for less $?


Because the Sonata is a horrible car.

Chris
  #338  
Old July 16th 05, 12:02 AM
C.H.
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Posts: n/a
Default

N8N wrote:

>
>
> C.H. wrote:


>> Less expensive but more junky. True horror-brakes, horrible quality,
>> designed by a committee and only selling because some people are stupid
>> enough to think that a 10 year warranty makes up for an unreliable POS.

>
> Again, if I didn't know who you were talking about, I'd immediately
> think of GM rather than Hyundai (well, I don't think GM offers a 10
> year warranty.) That said, Hyundai has come a long way since they
> first came to the US; their products aren't all that bad, all things
> considered.


I had a Hyundai as a rental a few months ago. Still a horrible car.

>> Hahahahaha! I see how the Golfs and Boras (German Jetta) of my friends in
>> Germany break. Engine and electronics problems galore. Thanks,
>> reliability wise Id rather take a V6 Malibu than the turbo Jetta.

>
> My experiences haven't been like that. Yeah, they had some supplier
> issues with coil packs and window regulators but their fit and finish
> as well as the feel and appearance of the interiors is a cut above, and
> the handling is much better than either the US or Japanese competition.


I was always amused when my coworkers' Volkswagens were at the shop getting
this and that replaced while I my 'unreliable' american car just works.

> The fact that they are still using the same basic engine, designed
> back in the early 70's, for both gasoline and Diesel engines speaks to
> the basic goodness of the design.


My car still uses a basic engine design from the 50s. Thats even better than
VW can do...

>> I can't say I like the Corolla's handling much. Of course if you love
>> understeer you may think differently. Before you rip my head off, I don't
>> like the handling of any FWD sedan much.

>
> I'm not nuts about it either, and I actually agree with you. That said
> I'd rather have a Corolla than a FWD GM sedan.


I wouldn't want either.

>> Chevrolet is the best selling passenger car brand in America. GM has the
>> largest market share of any manufacturer in the US. To put it quite
>> bluntly, even in 2004 the numbers of Toyota (12.2%), Honda (8.2%) and
>> Nissan (5.8%) together don't reach GM's market share (27.3%) even though
>> SUV sales were in a slump.
>>
>> To claim that 'nobody buys GM' is plain stupid.
>>

>
> A lot *fewer* people have been buying GM recently than has been the
> case in the past, that's a fact.


'A lot fewer' and 'nobody' are two entirely different things, especially
when you are bigger than three of the largest foreign competitors together.
And with the 'employee pricing' promotion people are buying GM in record
numbers even though the prices are not lower than they were with the
promotions before that, so ...

Chris
  #339  
Old July 16th 05, 12:07 AM
C.H.
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Posts: n/a
Default

223rem wrote:

> C.H. wrote:
>> The Geo Prism is just as boring and as uninspired as the Corolla. Where
>> did I say that I like these wannabe GMs from the Far East?

>
> Your position doesnt make a lot of sense. First, the Corolla is meant
> to be boring. Cars in that class are boring by design.


Not necessarily. Look at the Neon SRT-4 or the Cobalt SS.

The Corolla is not boring because it has to be but because it is fashionable
in Japan to be as boring as possible.

> And exactly what is 'unispired' about it?


Just about everything.

> It is cheap,


Not really.

> good fuel economy, the interior is much better than in a Chevy,


I happen to hate Toyota's interior, especially the seating position.

> good engine,


Funny.

> ok handling,


.... for a ****box.

> lasts forever,


Tell that to an ex-coworker, who had to junk his Corolla at 94000 miles and
8 years because the engine decided to kick the bucket. And that despite his
religious '3000 mile oil changes'...

> MT available, great resale value. A great daily commuter.


I don't think so, YMMV.

> What's not to like?


Everything. If a car is not fun to drive I don't bother buying it. And if I
want a fun little commuter I am much more likely to buy a Neon SRT-4 than a
Corolla XRS.

Chris
  #340  
Old July 16th 05, 12:09 AM
223rem
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Default

C.H. wrote:

> Because the Sonata is a horrible car.


Edmunds.com disagrees.
But I'm sure you've driven it.
 




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