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The real danger of allowing GM and Ford to go bankrupt . . .



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 12th 05, 11:04 PM
Alan Baker
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In article >,
Scott en Aztl?n > wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:58:47 GMT, Alan Baker >
> spake thus:
>
> >> The loss of oil is going to hit the U.S. the hardest.

> >
> >Have you noticed the huge oil reserves Japan has? You haven't? Hmmmm...
> >I wonder why that is...

>
> Yes, but Japan doesn't have anything like the consumption rates that
> the US has, either. Unlike us, they have invested in electric rail
> technology that can move people much more fuel-efficiently - and can
> be powered by non-petroleum energy source, such as newkyooler power.
> And you can bet your bottom Yen that they're already working on
> hydrogen and other alternative fuels. Just as they're ahead of the
> rest of the world in earthquake preparedness, they're going to be the
> most prepared when the oil spigot runs dry.
>
> I doubt Japan will be impacted much, if at all, by the loss of oil.


But you just made my point:

> And you can bet your bottom Yen that they're already working on
> hydrogen and other alternative fuels.


Yup. So it doesn't matter if GM and Ford can't provide the goods,
because Honda, Nissan and Toyota will.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
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  #22  
Old June 12th 05, 11:21 PM
Old Wolf
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Dave wrote:
>>
>> If GM and Ford are bailed out, they will have no motivation to change.
>> Never mind that the hydrogen idea is just plain stupid.
>>

>
> Again with the hydrogen is stupid. Your house burns down. Do you
> build a new one? Nawwww. . . that would be "stupid". People are
> arguing against hydrogen as if there is a CHOICE, but nobody can
> seem to come up with a better solution. So when the oil runs out,
> I guess we're all going to starve to death? Somehow, hydrogen
> doesn't seem as "stupid" as starving to death.


What makes you think the oil is going to run out anytime soon?
Is your government waging another one of those BS campaigns like
it did with the WMD thing?

A more immediate problem is, what are you going to do when GM
goes belly up and you're forced to either drive a Ford Explorer
or a jap crap?

  #23  
Old June 13th 05, 12:30 AM
Matthew Russotto
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In article . net>,
Dave > wrote:
>
>> [Attribution lost]
>> All you need to do is to seperate the oxygen molecules from the hydrogen.
>> Last time I checked that required energy to do.
>>

>
>Yes, and it requires LESS energy than the hydrogen will create.
>Interesting, eh? -Dave


No, it requires more. Unless you've figured out nuclear fusion for
power production.
--
Darth Tel: "You can defeat Emperor Gates. He has forseen it. Join me,
and together we will rule the Galaxy as father and son!"

Steve Chipwalker, hanging on by his fingernails: "Sure thing, Pop. Just pull
me up, give me a laptop, and we'll go axe your boss"

-- Megahertz Wars, Episode V, "Finale".
  #24  
Old June 13th 05, 12:51 AM
Matthew Russotto
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In article . net>,
Dave > wrote:
>>> Yes, and it requires LESS energy than the hydrogen will create.
>>> Interesting, eh? -Dave

>>
>> If you figured this crap out, I don't understand why you aren't a
>> multigazillionaire. I certainly would be if I had your knowledge.
>>

>
>Yeah, If I could figure out the problems that exist, I'd be a gazillionaire.
>
>Everybody likes to argue against hydrogen. But nobody seems to have a
>better idea.


Yeah, and maybe they'd have more energy to think it up if they didn't
keep having to shoot down the foolishness that is hydrogen.
--
Darth Tel: "You can defeat Emperor Gates. He has forseen it. Join me,
and together we will rule the Galaxy as father and son!"

Steve Chipwalker, hanging on by his fingernails: "Sure thing, Pop. Just pull
me up, give me a laptop, and we'll go axe your boss"

-- Megahertz Wars, Episode V, "Finale".
  #25  
Old June 13th 05, 01:48 AM
Dave
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>
> What makes you think the oil is going to run out anytime soon?


I listen to thousands of scientists who know a lot more about the issue than
I do. What makes YOU think that oil is NOT going to run out soon? (this
should be good) -Dave


  #26  
Old June 13th 05, 01:50 AM
Dave
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>>Everybody likes to argue against hydrogen. But nobody seems to have a
>>better idea.

>
> Yeah, and maybe they'd have more energy to think it up if they didn't
> keep having to shoot down the foolishness that is hydrogen.
> --


Who are you to say it's foolish? Have you built a hydrogen powered car
recently? Was it a dismal failure? Well, maybe somebody who doesn't
believe it's foolish should give it a shot. Oh wait, it's already in the
works. Never mind. -Dave


  #27  
Old June 13th 05, 01:52 AM
John David Galt
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Scott en Aztlán wrote:
> And you can bet your bottom Yen that they're already working on
> hydrogen and other alternative fuels.


Sounds like they, and you, haven't yet figured out that H2 is not an
alternative fuel. Like electricity, H2 is only a way of storing and
transporting energy that must first come from other sources. And like
electricity, H2 is NOT "pollution free" except at the consumer end of
the energy-transport system.

But the idea is popular in places like Los Angeles because it will let
them export their cars' pollution to the outlying places where their
electricity is generated. Unless the feds or the courts stop them.
  #28  
Old June 13th 05, 03:58 PM
Matthew Russotto
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In article >,
John David Galt > wrote:

>transporting energy that must first come from other sources. And like
>electricity, H2 is NOT "pollution free" except at the consumer end of
>the energy-transport system.


Not even there, because NOx is still formed.

--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
 




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