locker advice

I have a 97 Wrangler, lifted about 4 inches with 33x12.5x15 tires. It has
3.73 gears in a front dana 30 and rear dana 44. It is an almost daily
driver. When I take it off-road, it is mostly mud with a few rocks every
now and then. Both diffs are open. I would like to lock up both ends or at
least the rear, but the situation I found myself in (deep muddy ruts) the
other day, I could not get out of the ruts because of the open diff. The
tire up against the rut wouldn't spin while the other side spun freely. Not
a great situation. Ok, I digress, I would like to install lockers, of some
sort, at the same time as re-gearing to 4.56 or 4.88. My questions are
these:
1. Will these diffs handle those gears?
2. Any recommendations or opinions on the Detroit TrueTrac, Electrac, or
Locker?
3. I would like to stay away from friction additives and the Auburn
limited slip sounds like a pain if you have to send it in for rebuild.

The article in the recent JP magazine is what swayed me towards the Detroit
brand.

Also, how hard is it really to install new gears and lockers at the same
time?

Thanks,
Dennis
97 Wrangler

On Mon, 23 May 2005 21:21:24 -0500, "Dennis Cox"
> wrote:

>>I have a 97 Wrangler, lifted about 4 inches with 33x12.5x15 tires. It has
>>3.73 gears in a front dana 30 and rear dana 44. It is an almost daily
>>driver. When I take it off-road, it is mostly mud with a few rocks every
>>now and then. Both diffs are open. I would like to lock up both ends or at
>>least the rear, but the situation I found myself in (deep muddy ruts) the
>>other day, I could not get out of the ruts because of the open diff. The
>>tire up against the rut wouldn't spin while the other side spun freely. Not
>>a great situation. Ok, I digress, I would like to install lockers, of some
>>sort, at the same time as re-gearing to 4.56 or 4.88. My questions are
>>these:
>>1. Will these diffs handle those gears?

Yep

>>2. Any recommendations or opinions on the Detroit TrueTrac, Electrac, or
>>Locker?

Dunno. I run a Detroit and like it. But its no longer a daily driver either.

>>3. I would like to stay away from friction additives and the Auburn
>>limited slip sounds like a pain if you have to send it in for rebuild.
>>
>>The article in the recent JP magazine is what swayed me towards the Detroit
>>brand.
>>
>>Also, how hard is it really to install new gears and lockers at the same
>>time?

You are saving $ and time if you do both at the same time, since both require opening
up the diff's and messing with the gears and stuff. How hard - I dont know, I went
to a good R&P guy for mine. Just seemed like a good idea.

For best traction in a daily driver, a locker (no-slip) is preferable to
a limited slip like the TrueTrac. The one that gets the raves for
durability is the Detroit Locker. It unlocks automatically when turning
on high traction surfaces.

Does winter street driving involve snow where you live? If so, an auto
locker may be unsuitable. It will stay locked on a slippery road and
pull sideways to the ditch. Consider a manually selectable locker like
an ARB air locker, Electrac or OX locker. Alternately go for a good
limited slip like the TrueTrac.

If snow is not an issue, the Detroit Locker is good, but there are less
expensive and easier to install 'lunch box' automatic lockers like EZ
Locker or Powertrax/Lockright. These replace your side gears and spider
gears using your existing carrier with no need to touch the ring & pinion.

If you do go for one that replaces the carrier, then it is wise to do
your gears at the same time. Doing your own gears is possible, but
you'll need to do alot of reading, invest in some special tools, and
block off at least a day to get it done.

http://www.differentials.com/install.html
http://www.thedirtforum.com/differential.htm
http://www.motivegear.com/tech_info/...tructions.html

It ain't rocket science, but you do need a good grasp of how to measure
and adjust pinion depth, backlash, and bearing preloads. It can take
many time consuming cycles of tearing down and reassembling with
different shim combinations to get all the variables within spec.

Steve
http://xjeep.dyndns.org


Dennis Cox wrote:
> I have a 97 Wrangler, lifted about 4 inches with 33x12.5x15 tires. It has
> 3.73 gears in a front dana 30 and rear dana 44. It is an almost daily
> driver. When I take it off-road, it is mostly mud with a few rocks every
> now and then. Both diffs are open. I would like to lock up both ends or at
> least the rear, but the situation I found myself in (deep muddy ruts) the
> other day, I could not get out of the ruts because of the open diff. The
> tire up against the rut wouldn't spin while the other side spun freely. Not
> a great situation. Ok, I digress, I would like to install lockers, of some
> sort, at the same time as re-gearing to 4.56 or 4.88. My questions are
> these:
> 1. Will these diffs handle those gears?
> 2. Any recommendations or opinions on the Detroit TrueTrac, Electrac, or
> Locker?
> 3. I would like to stay away from friction additives and the Auburn
> limited slip sounds like a pain if you have to send it in for rebuild.
>
> The article in the recent JP magazine is what swayed me towards the Detroit
> brand.
>
> Also, how hard is it really to install new gears and lockers at the same
> time?
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis
> 97 Wrangler
>
>

I will second or third the snowy roads warning. They call lockers 'low
side finders' and they have no manners in snow.

Other than that, here is a trick for you that dates from the first
vehicles made. I have been 'stuck' on slush with an ice base and had 2
wheels merrily spinning away, one front and one back, so the boys are
going for the straps....

Suddenly bang, I have all 4 tossing rooster tails and away I go! The
boys are sitting there with jaws hanging....

If you hit the brakes while popping the clutch, you will load up the
wheel spinning so the torque builds up high enough to break the 'stuck'
wheel free and you have both tires spinning.

The owners manuals for 'both' of my Jeeps say you can load up the rear
by putting the emergency brake on to get both moving, but that hasn't
worked for me, using the brake pedal works quite well and if you get it
just right, you can load up the front at the same time to get all 4
spinning.

The diff puts 'equal' torque to both wheels. The one free spinning
needs almost 0 torque to spin, so the stuck wheel sees the same almost 0
torque. Use the brakes to raise the torque needed to spin the wheel,
and the other side sees the same raise in torque. Get high enough, and
the stopped wheel 'will' break free.

It takes a pile of practice, but it works well.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Dennis Cox wrote:
>
> I have a 97 Wrangler, lifted about 4 inches with 33x12.5x15 tires. It has
> 3.73 gears in a front dana 30 and rear dana 44. It is an almost daily
> driver. When I take it off-road, it is mostly mud with a few rocks every
> now and then. Both diffs are open. I would like to lock up both ends or at
> least the rear, but the situation I found myself in (deep muddy ruts) the
> other day, I could not get out of the ruts because of the open diff. The
> tire up against the rut wouldn't spin while the other side spun freely. Not
> a great situation. Ok, I digress, I would like to install lockers, of some
> sort, at the same time as re-gearing to 4.56 or 4.88. My questions are
> these:
> 1. Will these diffs handle those gears?
> 2. Any recommendations or opinions on the Detroit TrueTrac, Electrac, or
> Locker?
> 3. I would like to stay away from friction additives and the Auburn
> limited slip sounds like a pain if you have to send it in for rebuild.
>
> The article in the recent JP magazine is what swayed me towards the Detroit
> brand.
>
> Also, how hard is it really to install new gears and lockers at the same
> time?
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis
> 97 Wrangler

not much snow in Dallas, but we get slippery roads once a winter it seems
like.

Thanks for the info.

Dennis

"Steve" > wrote in message
news:royke.8565$9A2.5304@edtnps89...
> For best traction in a daily driver, a locker (no-slip) is preferable to a
> limited slip like the TrueTrac. The one that gets the raves for durability
> is the Detroit Locker. It unlocks automatically when turning on high
> traction surfaces.
>
> Does winter street driving involve snow where you live? If so, an auto
> locker may be unsuitable. It will stay locked on a slippery road and pull
> sideways to the ditch. Consider a manually selectable locker like an ARB
> air locker, Electrac or OX locker. Alternately go for a good limited slip
> like the TrueTrac.
>
> If snow is not an issue, the Detroit Locker is good, but there are less
> expensive and easier to install 'lunch box' automatic lockers like EZ
> Locker or Powertrax/Lockright. These replace your side gears and spider
> gears using your existing carrier with no need to touch the ring & pinion.
>
> If you do go for one that replaces the carrier, then it is wise to do your
> gears at the same time. Doing your own gears is possible, but you'll need
> to do alot of reading, invest in some special tools, and block off at
> least a day to get it done.
>
> http://www.differentials.com/install.html
> http://www.thedirtforum.com/differential.htm
> http://www.motivegear.com/tech_info/...tructions.html
>
> It ain't rocket science, but you do need a good grasp of how to measure
> and adjust pinion depth, backlash, and bearing preloads. It can take many
> time consuming cycles of tearing down and reassembling with different shim
> combinations to get all the variables within spec.
>
> Steve
> http://xjeep.dyndns.org
>
>
> Dennis Cox wrote:
>> I have a 97 Wrangler, lifted about 4 inches with 33x12.5x15 tires. It
>> has 3.73 gears in a front dana 30 and rear dana 44. It is an almost
>> daily driver. When I take it off-road, it is mostly mud with a few rocks
>> every now and then. Both diffs are open. I would like to lock up both
>> ends or at least the rear, but the situation I found myself in (deep
>> muddy ruts) the other day, I could not get out of the ruts because of the
>> open diff. The tire up against the rut wouldn't spin while the other
>> side spun freely. Not a great situation. Ok, I digress, I would like to
>> install lockers, of some sort, at the same time as re-gearing to 4.56 or
>> 4.88. My questions are these:
>> 1. Will these diffs handle those gears?
>> 2. Any recommendations or opinions on the Detroit TrueTrac, Electrac,
>> or Locker?
>> 3. I would like to stay away from friction additives and the Auburn
>> limited slip sounds like a pain if you have to send it in for rebuild.
>>
>> The article in the recent JP magazine is what swayed me towards the
>> Detroit brand.
>>
>> Also, how hard is it really to install new gears and lockers at the same
>> time?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dennis
>> 97 Wrangler

I was driving my girlfriend's jeep on the beach here and it had open diffs,
got stuck in some sugar sand with the wheels spinning like that. I remember
reading in this group about that once and I tried it and it worked... got
cool points with her too

Troy

"Dennis Cox" > wrote in message
news
> I have a 97 Wrangler, lifted about 4 inches with 33x12.5x15 tires. It has
> 3.73 gears in a front dana 30 and rear dana 44. It is an almost daily
> driver. When I take it off-road, it is mostly mud with a few rocks every
> now and then. Both diffs are open. I would like to lock up both ends or
at
> least the rear, but the situation I found myself in (deep muddy ruts) the
> other day, I could not get out of the ruts because of the open diff. The
> tire up against the rut wouldn't spin while the other side spun freely.
Not
> a great situation. Ok, I digress, I would like to install lockers, of
some
> sort, at the same time as re-gearing to 4.56 or 4.88. My questions are
> these:
> 1. Will these diffs handle those gears?

Yes. The 4.56s are supposedly the better choice because the pinion on the
4.88s gets really small.



> 2. Any recommendations or opinions on the Detroit TrueTrac, Electrac,
or
> Locker?

Detroit Full Locker in the back. Pick your poison for the front. I have the
Detroit EZLocker up front and it has never let me down.


> 3. I would like to stay away from friction additives and the Auburn
> limited slip sounds like a pain if you have to send it in for rebuild.
>

The locker avoids the additives.


> The article in the recent JP magazine is what swayed me towards the
Detroit
> brand.
>
> Also, how hard is it really to install new gears and lockers at the same
> time?
>

You would WANT to do the gears at the same time. There is no point in
opening the diffs for the locker this week, then opening the diffs again
next week for gears. Or the other way around. Be advised that you will
probably be getting a new carrier for the gearing project because the new
ring gear won't fit the current carrier.

4.88 gears are fine, no one running them is having troubles with their
strength. The RUMOR was that 4.88 gears wouldn't hold up when they
first came out but the rumors were proved false. Mine are doing fine as
well with lots of rock crawling under their belt with 35" tires and f/r
lockers..

Jeff Strickland wrote:
> "Dennis Cox" > wrote in message
> news >
>>I have a 97 Wrangler, lifted about 4 inches with 33x12.5x15 tires. It has
>>3.73 gears in a front dana 30 and rear dana 44. It is an almost daily
>>driver. When I take it off-road, it is mostly mud with a few rocks every
>>now and then. Both diffs are open. I would like to lock up both ends or
>
> at
>
>>least the rear, but the situation I found myself in (deep muddy ruts) the
>>other day, I could not get out of the ruts because of the open diff. The
>>tire up against the rut wouldn't spin while the other side spun freely.
>
> Not
>
>>a great situation. Ok, I digress, I would like to install lockers, of
>
> some
>
>>sort, at the same time as re-gearing to 4.56 or 4.88. My questions are
>>these:
>>1. Will these diffs handle those gears?
>
>
> Yes. The 4.56s are supposedly the better choice because the pinion on the
> 4.88s gets really small.
>
>
>
>
>>2. Any recommendations or opinions on the Detroit TrueTrac, Electrac,
>
> or
>
>>Locker?
>
>
> Detroit Full Locker in the back. Pick your poison for the front. I have the
> Detroit EZLocker up front and it has never let me down.
>
>
>
>>3. I would like to stay away from friction additives and the Auburn
>>limited slip sounds like a pain if you have to send it in for rebuild.
>>
>
>
> The locker avoids the additives.
>
>
>
>>The article in the recent JP magazine is what swayed me towards the
>
> Detroit
>
>>brand.
>>
>>Also, how hard is it really to install new gears and lockers at the same
>>time?
>>
>
>
> You would WANT to do the gears at the same time. There is no point in
> opening the diffs for the locker this week, then opening the diffs again
> next week for gears. Or the other way around. Be advised that you will
> probably be getting a new carrier for the gearing project because the new
> ring gear won't fit the current carrier.
>
>
>

--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

Real Jeeps come stock with 5.38s:
http://www.californiajeeper.com/axle.htm
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Dennis Cox wrote:
>
> I have a 97 Wrangler, lifted about 4 inches with 33x12.5x15 tires. It has
> 3.73 gears in a front dana 30 and rear dana 44. It is an almost daily
> driver. When I take it off-road, it is mostly mud with a few rocks every
> now and then. Both diffs are open. I would like to lock up both ends or at
> least the rear, but the situation I found myself in (deep muddy ruts) the
> other day, I could not get out of the ruts because of the open diff. The
> tire up against the rut wouldn't spin while the other side spun freely. Not
> a great situation. Ok, I digress, I would like to install lockers, of some
> sort, at the same time as re-gearing to 4.56 or 4.88. My questions are
> these:
> 1. Will these diffs handle those gears?
> 2. Any recommendations or opinions on the Detroit TrueTrac, Electrac, or
> Locker?
> 3. I would like to stay away from friction additives and the Auburn
> limited slip sounds like a pain if you have to send it in for rebuild.
>
> The article in the recent JP magazine is what swayed me towards the Detroit
> brand.
>
> Also, how hard is it really to install new gears and lockers at the same
> time?
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis
> 97 Wrangler

There you have it ladies and gentlemen, my suggestion that 4.88s were going
to be weak is unfounded. I'll be the first to admit that I was repeating a
rumor. I thought that if the rumor were true, then my giving the heads up
would be a good thing. Since the rumor has turned out to be false, then the
heads up is OK, but can be ignored.

PS
I didn't know you were running 4.88s Jerry.




"Jerry Bransford" > wrote in message
news:jw6le.6580$tp.5723@fed1read05...
> 4.88 gears are fine, no one running them is having troubles with their
> strength. The RUMOR was that 4.88 gears wouldn't hold up when they
> first came out but the rumors were proved false. Mine are doing fine as
> well with lots of rock crawling under their belt with 35" tires and f/r
> lockers..
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > "Dennis Cox" > wrote in message
> > news > >
> >>I have a 97 Wrangler, lifted about 4 inches with 33x12.5x15 tires. It
has
> >>3.73 gears in a front dana 30 and rear dana 44. It is an almost daily
> >>driver. When I take it off-road, it is mostly mud with a few rocks
every
> >>now and then. Both diffs are open. I would like to lock up both ends
or
> >
> > at
> >
> >>least the rear, but the situation I found myself in (deep muddy ruts)
the
> >>other day, I could not get out of the ruts because of the open diff.
The
> >>tire up against the rut wouldn't spin while the other side spun freely.
> >
> > Not
> >
> >>a great situation. Ok, I digress, I would like to install lockers, of
> >
> > some
> >
> >>sort, at the same time as re-gearing to 4.56 or 4.88. My questions are
> >>these:
> >>1. Will these diffs handle those gears?
> >
> >
> > Yes. The 4.56s are supposedly the better choice because the pinion on
the
> > 4.88s gets really small.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>2. Any recommendations or opinions on the Detroit TrueTrac, Electrac,
> >
> > or
> >
> >>Locker?
> >
> >
> > Detroit Full Locker in the back. Pick your poison for the front. I have
the
> > Detroit EZLocker up front and it has never let me down.
> >
> >
> >
> >>3. I would like to stay away from friction additives and the Auburn
> >>limited slip sounds like a pain if you have to send it in for rebuild.
> >>
> >
> >
> > The locker avoids the additives.
> >
> >
> >
> >>The article in the recent JP magazine is what swayed me towards the
> >
> > Detroit
> >
> >>brand.
> >>
> >>Also, how hard is it really to install new gears and lockers at the same
> >>time?
> >>
> >
> >
> > You would WANT to do the gears at the same time. There is no point in
> > opening the diffs for the locker this week, then opening the diffs again
> > next week for gears. Or the other way around. Be advised that you will
> > probably be getting a new carrier for the gearing project because the
new
> > ring gear won't fit the current carrier.
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/