Need help from a Buick Oddfire V6 Guru

Hi Bill,
Spine the engine until the distributor drops into the oil pump
drive, and pull number one spark plug and put your finger in it to make
sure you're feeling the compression coming up for top dead center. Twist
the distributor forward clockwise towards number six, usually with the
vacuum diaphragm that's all it will travel anyway, turn on ignition put
number one wire where you can see it jump the quarter inch and pull the
distributor back slowly until you see the discharge and lock it.
Point gap of .022" is way too wide, should be .016" to be thirty
degrees of dwell. Old hod rod trick use an 1/8 in. Allen wrench, turn
the adjusting screw clockwise until the engine begins to misfire, then
turn it out 1/2 turn.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Bill Lahr wrote:
>
> Thanks to all of you. I can rotate the distributor body enough to line
> it up at #1 or between #1 and #6, depending upon how I seat the shaft.
> There are some hoses and the vacuum advance that limit the adjustment. I
> am assuming the guy who gave me the Jeep installed the new timing chain
> properly, since he worked for Hillcrest Cadillac in LA for a time,
> restoring the antique cars for the Willet H. Brown collection. Some were
> valued at more than $600,000. (Typical mechanic, fix other peoples'
> stuff and let yours go to pot.)
>
> Yes, I have a timing light, but I wanted to set it with a meter to
> roughly 5BTDC before I attempt to start it. The oddfire distributor is
> strange.
>
> As to the cam lobes, this is of no importance because the rotor cap is
> keyed and can only fit one way. I set the point gap at .022, but there
> is a door on the side of the distributor cap that will let me adjust the
> dwell once it is running. I have an aftermarket capacitor discharge
> ignition system for it so the dwell isn't that important.
>
> The jeep sat outside for over ten years with water in the radiator. The
> block, heads and intake manifold are cast iron. I had to use a hammer
> and chisel to open up the water passages, then followed it with Prestone
> Super Flush "for neglected cooling systems." It did a nice job of
> removing the rust. Water seems to be flowing fine now. Once the
> treatments are done, it will be filled with coolant and water. Ithas a
> Cadillac radiator, so it shouldn't overheat. The jeep qualified as a
> basket case, but I am 99% sure I can get it running again.

Bill,

Did you one better. I pulled the plugs and left valve cover, turned the
engine by hand and watched the valves so I could be 100% sure the TDC
mark is at the #1 compression stroke. My book doesn't specifically list
the Oddfire engines, says .022 for "all Delco distributors." Of course,
they could be referring to the Jeep four-bangers, as it isn't really
clear on that point. As I said, the dwell is not important anyway, as I
am using an aftermarket CD ignition system. I bought three of them about
40 years ago. Plugs last 50K miles and points last forever. I'll go
ahead and regap the points to .016 anyway.

I spun up the oil pump, no flow, so next up is to drop the pan and clean
the pickup screen. Those engines have the pickup in the rear with an oil
passage going through the block to the oil pump in front. Once I get it
flowing with fresh oil, I want to flush the block. Any suggestions on
what to use? The prior owner plugged off the PCV valve (he ran it on
natural gas directly into the manifold for a couple years in the 70's)
and there is some sludge in it that I want to get rid of. I used
"Rislone" years ago, not sure it is still around.

Bill


L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> Spine the engine until the distributor drops into the oil pump
> drive, and pull number one spark plug and put your finger in it to make
> sure you're feeling the compression coming up for top dead center. Twist
> the distributor forward clockwise towards number six, usually with the
> vacuum diaphragm that's all it will travel anyway, turn on ignition put
> number one wire where you can see it jump the quarter inch and pull the
> distributor back slowly until you see the discharge and lock it.
> Point gap of .022" is way too wide, should be .016" to be thirty
> degrees of dwell. Old hod rod trick use an 1/8 in. Allen wrench, turn
> the adjusting screw clockwise until the engine begins to misfire, then
> turn it out 1/2 turn.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
>

Just so you know, I can set the rotor in any physical position and clock
the wires to match so it runs, except on that odd fire engine. I
believe it has to be correct with the rotor pointing to 5:00 looking
from the front. Hence the round cam lobe setup, vs the sharp one.

As far as the fine tuning goes, you can set the rotor so it is in the
center of the free movement area for the distributor body while pointing
at #1 wire post in the cap. You then set the crank pulley at the notch
for TDC or at the 5 deg mark you want. Then with the key off, you put
your meter set on Ohms across the points and turn the distributor body
until the meter stop beeping or first flickers away from 0. Or you
could have the meter on Volts with the key on and turn the distributor
body until the meter flicks to 12 volts. When this happens, bolt the
distributor down.

This will have your timing statically set at 5 deg. BTDC.

Then you can open up the cap and see where the sucker is 'supposed' to
be....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Bill Lahr wrote:
>
> Thanks to all of you. I can rotate the distributor body enough to line
> it up at #1 or between #1 and #6, depending upon how I seat the shaft.
> There are some hoses and the vacuum advance that limit the adjustment. I
> am assuming the guy who gave me the Jeep installed the new timing chain
> properly, since he worked for Hillcrest Cadillac in LA for a time,
> restoring the antique cars for the Willet H. Brown collection. Some were
> valued at more than $600,000. (Typical mechanic, fix other peoples'
> stuff and let yours go to pot.)
>
> Yes, I have a timing light, but I wanted to set it with a meter to
> roughly 5BTDC before I attempt to start it. The oddfire distributor is
> strange.
>
> As to the cam lobes, this is of no importance because the rotor cap is
> keyed and can only fit one way. I set the point gap at .022, but there
> is a door on the side of the distributor cap that will let me adjust the
> dwell once it is running. I have an aftermarket capacitor discharge
> ignition system for it so the dwell isn't that important.
>
> The jeep sat outside for over ten years with water in the radiator. The
> block, heads and intake manifold are cast iron. I had to use a hammer
> and chisel to open up the water passages, then followed it with Prestone
> Super Flush "for neglected cooling systems." It did a nice job of
> removing the rust. Water seems to be flowing fine now. Once the
> treatments are done, it will be filled with coolant and water. Ithas a
> Cadillac radiator, so it shouldn't overheat. The jeep qualified as a
> basket case, but I am 99% sure I can get it running again.
>
> L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> > The relationship between the GM cap lock screws may help:
> > http://www.billhughes.com/temp/buickv6fire.jpg
> > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >
> >
> > bowgus wrote:
> >
> >>Have that engine with Rochester 4bbl in the boat ,,, service bulletin
> >>says:
> >>
> >>1. Rotate engine in normal direction of rotation until the timing mark
> >>on the crankshaft balancer lines up with "0" (TDC) on timing tab and
> >>engine is in #1 firing position.
> >>2. Look closely at the cam in the distributor. Three lobes have sharper
> >>profile than the other three (sharp, round, sharp, round, ... 1 (132
> >>dgrees) 6 (108 degrees) 5 (132 degrees) ... and so on ... )
> >>3. Install the distributor so that when the rotor is aligned with with
> >>the #1 spark plug tower, a rounded lobe is aligned with the rubbing
> >>block of the breaker points.
> >>4. Secure distributor with clamp and check engine timing with timing
> >>light. For what it's worth I set my timing at 8 degrees and use Shell
> >>Silver 89 octane.
>
> --
>
> Bill Lahr
>

That pump needs to be primed. Packing it with Vaseline works for this.

I have managed to prime the pumps in the oil pan by back feeding oil
from the filter base, but that won't work on the V6 pump.

My book also calls for a point gap of .022.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Bill Lahr wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> Did you one better. I pulled the plugs and left valve cover, turned the
> engine by hand and watched the valves so I could be 100% sure the TDC
> mark is at the #1 compression stroke. My book doesn't specifically list
> the Oddfire engines, says .022 for "all Delco distributors." Of course,
> they could be referring to the Jeep four-bangers, as it isn't really
> clear on that point. As I said, the dwell is not important anyway, as I
> am using an aftermarket CD ignition system. I bought three of them about
> 40 years ago. Plugs last 50K miles and points last forever. I'll go
> ahead and regap the points to .016 anyway.
>
> I spun up the oil pump, no flow, so next up is to drop the pan and clean
> the pickup screen. Those engines have the pickup in the rear with an oil
> passage going through the block to the oil pump in front. Once I get it
> flowing with fresh oil, I want to flush the block. Any suggestions on
> what to use? The prior owner plugged off the PCV valve (he ran it on
> natural gas directly into the manifold for a couple years in the 70's)
> and there is some sludge in it that I want to get rid of. I used
> "Rislone" years ago, not sure it is still around.
>
> Bill
>
>
> L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> > Hi Bill,
> > Spine the engine until the distributor drops into the oil pump
> > drive, and pull number one spark plug and put your finger in it to make
> > sure you're feeling the compression coming up for top dead center. Twist
> > the distributor forward clockwise towards number six, usually with the
> > vacuum diaphragm that's all it will travel anyway, turn on ignition put
> > number one wire where you can see it jump the quarter inch and pull the
> > distributor back slowly until you see the discharge and lock it.
> > Point gap of .022" is way too wide, should be .016" to be thirty
> > degrees of dwell. Old hod rod trick use an 1/8 in. Allen wrench, turn
> > the adjusting screw clockwise until the engine begins to misfire, then
> > turn it out 1/2 turn.
> > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > http://www.billhughes.com/
> >
> >

Lazarus Lives! Many thanks to all of you here. I spun the oil pump with
my drill, finally got it primed. Seated the distributor, aligned so the
rotor was between 0 and 5BTDC in a static check (regapped the points to
..016 as you suggested.) Cranked it over and it coughed and started! Not
bad after sitting for almost 11 years. Alternator works, 30A charge, oil
pressure is around 30 psi on fast idle, water temp slowly got to 140.
Popped it in reverse, then first, clutch and trans work fine. Started to
rain, so I'll have to shut it off for a few days. Picked up some Rislone
today, so will change the oil and filter, run that with the next oil
change, and hopefully get rid of most of the sludge. I have the PCV
valve hooked up now, so that should eliminate sludge in the future.

Thanks again for all the tips.

Bill Lahr

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> Spine the engine until the distributor drops into the oil pump
> drive, and pull number one spark plug and put your finger in it to make
> sure you're feeling the compression coming up for top dead center. Twist
> the distributor forward clockwise towards number six, usually with the
> vacuum diaphragm that's all it will travel anyway, turn on ignition put
> number one wire where you can see it jump the quarter inch and pull the
> distributor back slowly until you see the discharge and lock it.
> Point gap of .022" is way too wide, should be .016" to be thirty
> degrees of dwell. Old hod rod trick use an 1/8 in. Allen wrench, turn
> the adjusting screw clockwise until the engine begins to misfire, then
> turn it out 1/2 turn.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Bill Lahr wrote:
>
>

Cool.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Bill Lahr wrote:
>
> Lazarus Lives! Many thanks to all of you here. I spun the oil pump with
> my drill, finally got it primed. Seated the distributor, aligned so the
> rotor was between 0 and 5BTDC in a static check (regapped the points to
> .016 as you suggested.) Cranked it over and it coughed and started! Not
> bad after sitting for almost 11 years. Alternator works, 30A charge, oil
> pressure is around 30 psi on fast idle, water temp slowly got to 140.
> Popped it in reverse, then first, clutch and trans work fine. Started to
> rain, so I'll have to shut it off for a few days. Picked up some Rislone
> today, so will change the oil and filter, run that with the next oil
> change, and hopefully get rid of most of the sludge. I have the PCV
> valve hooked up now, so that should eliminate sludge in the future.
>
> Thanks again for all the tips.
>
> Bill Lahr
>
> L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> > Hi Bill,
> > Spine the engine until the distributor drops into the oil pump
> > drive, and pull number one spark plug and put your finger in it to make
> > sure you're feeling the compression coming up for top dead center. Twist
> > the distributor forward clockwise towards number six, usually with the
> > vacuum diaphragm that's all it will travel anyway, turn on ignition put
> > number one wire where you can see it jump the quarter inch and pull the
> > distributor back slowly until you see the discharge and lock it.
> > Point gap of .022" is way too wide, should be .016" to be thirty
> > degrees of dwell. Old hod rod trick use an 1/8 in. Allen wrench, turn
> > the adjusting screw clockwise until the engine begins to misfire, then
> > turn it out 1/2 turn.
> > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > http://www.billhughes.com/
> >
> > Bill Lahr wrote:
> >
> >

Ditto.

Mike

"L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" wrote:
>
> Cool.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Bill Lahr wrote:
> >
> > Lazarus Lives! Many thanks to all of you here. I spun the oil pump with
> > my drill, finally got it primed. Seated the distributor, aligned so the
> > rotor was between 0 and 5BTDC in a static check (regapped the points to
> > .016 as you suggested.) Cranked it over and it coughed and started! Not
> > bad after sitting for almost 11 years. Alternator works, 30A charge, oil
> > pressure is around 30 psi on fast idle, water temp slowly got to 140.
> > Popped it in reverse, then first, clutch and trans work fine. Started to
> > rain, so I'll have to shut it off for a few days. Picked up some Rislone
> > today, so will change the oil and filter, run that with the next oil
> > change, and hopefully get rid of most of the sludge. I have the PCV
> > valve hooked up now, so that should eliminate sludge in the future.
> >
> > Thanks again for all the tips.
> >
> > Bill Lahr
> >
> > L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> > > Hi Bill,
> > > Spine the engine until the distributor drops into the oil pump
> > > drive, and pull number one spark plug and put your finger in it to make
> > > sure you're feeling the compression coming up for top dead center. Twist
> > > the distributor forward clockwise towards number six, usually with the
> > > vacuum diaphragm that's all it will travel anyway, turn on ignition put
> > > number one wire where you can see it jump the quarter inch and pull the
> > > distributor back slowly until you see the discharge and lock it.
> > > Point gap of .022" is way too wide, should be .016" to be thirty
> > > degrees of dwell. Old hod rod trick use an 1/8 in. Allen wrench, turn
> > > the adjusting screw clockwise until the engine begins to misfire, then
> > > turn it out 1/2 turn.
> > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > >
> > > Bill Lahr wrote:
> > >
> > >