Need Help, Advice, Information - Possible purchase of '65 Mustang

Good morning all,

First off, before I even get a single response I want to thank anyone
who gives me some of the advice I need.

Anyways, a guy I work with is selling a 65 Mustang Coupe, and I'm
hoping someone can tell me whether or not it might be worth my time.
This would be my first ever 'classic' so I want to make sure I'm
informed and making a smart decision. Essentially I'm looking for
something I can enjoy and possibly make into a fast streetable car down
the road - I am not looking for a show car. Here's all of the
information I have so far - I have yet to see the car in person but the
owner is showing me pictures today (to see if I'm interested or not):

1965 Mustang Coupe
$6000 (may be negotiable but I'm not sure)
6 Cylinder
Automatic Transmission
Metallic Green w/ Black Interior

Work Done:

New Master Cylinder
New Front Chrome
New Door Hinges
New Rubber For Doorseals
Aftermarket A/C (runs cold according to owner)
New Low Profile Tires with Cragar Mag Wheels
Paint is about 2 years old
Runs Great (according to owner but I'd expect him to say that)
New Quarter Panels

Work Needed:

Two Small Rips in Headliner (he has a new one to replace)
Repair Emergency Brake (he has the new spring to replace)
No back bumper
Dashboard is cracked (I haven't seen the car yet so I don't know how
severe)
Needs chrome around windows (I think this is what he said)
He has new rear lights and bezels to be put in.
He's willing to include any parts he has with the car.

Here are the questions I know I need to ask. If anyone can help by
elaborating on things to look for or avoid related to these I
appreciate it:

Mileage
Engine Details (Including to check if numbers match but how do I do
that?)
Is a title available?
Is any work documented?
Previous owner history?
Who did the repair work on the car?
VIN info - I found the decode info on Barrett-Jackson to verify

Things other co-workers mentioned:

Check for floor panel damage/rust and frame rust - where should I look?
Check for rear quarter panel and wheel-well damage/rust - how/where?
Check for bondo - magnet?

QUESTIONS FOR GOOGLE GROUPS:

What other issues should I be concerned with?
One thing I'd like to consider doing if I bought a car like this would
be to eventually change it over to a V-8 and possibly a manual tranny.
What kind of work is involved to do so with this kind of car, or is it
impossible?
He claims to have about $7000 invested - could I get away with offering
him less, and if so how much?
What kind of investment does this car turn out to be?

Any other general advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated. If
you need more info you can also email me at .

Thanks!

Willis (Baltimore, MD)

Willis wrote:

Essentially I'm looking for
> something I can enjoy and possibly make into a fast streetable car
down
> the road.

Then get a V8. The I6 Stangs are substantially different than the
V8's. Four-lug wheels, a different rear axle, more light weight front
suspension, smaller radiator. It's not worth it to change a coupe over
when there are so many V8 coupes. A fastback or a vert, maybe, if the
price was right. $6000 would be the right price for one of these, but
it's too high for a coupe.

> Metallic Green

Um, ick.

> Work Done:
>
> New Master Cylinder
> New Front Chrome
> New Door Hinges
> New Rubber For Doorseals
> Aftermarket A/C (runs cold according to owner)
> New Low Profile Tires with Cragar Mag Wheels
> Paint is about 2 years old
> Runs Great (according to owner but I'd expect him to say that)
> New Quarter Panels

Most of these things are pretty easy, cheap bolt on type stuff. The
"new quarters" and 2-year old paint are revealing, suggesting a heavy
rust problem. If the quarters rusted out to the point of needing
replacement, the cowl vents, floor pans, doors (both corners, inside
and out), and front fenders (just ahead of door opening) are suspect
too. Yes, check those door corners and front fenders with a magnet.
It's very common just to slap on some bondo and paint it. The rust
will come bubbling up two or three years later. (Funny he's selling
on the two year anniversary of the repaint, huh?)

About the cowl vents, the hood just in front of the windshield is a
louvered panel, right? That panel is welded on with many dozen spot
welds. Beneath that panel, on each side, is a "hat," a cylinder of
sheet metal intended to admit air into the car and keep water out.
Ford did not paint these cylinders. So they rust out around the
bottom, admitting the water. The water runs down into the floor pans,
where your feet go, and soaks the carpet and sits there. The floor
pans rust out. The way to check for rusted hats is to run water into
the cowl vents and check for water inside. You will see it, or at
least feel it in the carpet. You can also check visually under the
car, at the point where the floor pan goes from horizontal to a
diagonal slope to join the firewall. It's called the Flintstone car
condition, you know, how Fred and Barney had to propel their cars by
sticking their feet through the floorboards and running on the
pavement.
>
> Work Needed:
>
> Two Small Rips in Headliner (he has a new one to replace)

This requires the removal of the windshield and backlight (although
some claim to have installed a headliner without removing the glass).

> Repair Emergency Brake (he has the new spring to replace)
> No back bumper

Available repro, cheap, although the repros never fit as well as OE.

> Dashboard is cracked (I haven't seen the car yet so I don't know how
> severe)

Ditto.

> Needs chrome around windows (I think this is what he said)

He probably means the OE frame around the vent wing window is pitted.

> He has new rear lights and bezels to be put in.
> He's willing to include any parts he has with the car.

> Mileage
> Engine Details (Including to check if numbers match but how do I do
> that?)

Who cares? A 6 cyl will NEVER be a collectors item.

> He claims to have about $7000 invested - could I get away with
offering
> him less, and if so how much?

$3000. What a guy has in a car has NOTHING to do with it's value to
you as a buyer on the national market. I've got $8000 in my '70
Cougar; it's worth $4000 on a good day. I've got $21000 in my '65
Mustang; it's worth $12000 if I'm lucky. Boo hoo for me, but that's
the way it is in the old car hobby.

> What kind of investment does this car turn out to be?

A bad one.

> Any other general advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Get the Ford shop manual, the four Osbourne assembly manuals, and a 200
piece Craftsman tool set.

180 Out
TS 28

I just sold a '65 I6 coupe for 6000. It had fresh paint and interior and
only needed a complete detail of the engine compartment. Everything was
either restored rebuilt or new. Pretty and clean but not a show car. I think
the one you're looking at is too much unless it looks almost new inside and
out. Just my opinion. Look at some other mustangs for sale in your area and
compare.

--
Mark C. Jack of all trades, master of none. (well, maybe a couple)

I r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d



> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Willis wrote:
>
> Essentially I'm looking for
>> something I can enjoy and possibly make into a fast streetable car
> down
>> the road.
>
> Then get a V8. The I6 Stangs are substantially different than the
> V8's. Four-lug wheels, a different rear axle, more light weight front
> suspension, smaller radiator. It's not worth it to change a coupe over
> when there are so many V8 coupes. A fastback or a vert, maybe, if the
> price was right. $6000 would be the right price for one of these, but
> it's too high for a coupe.
>
>> Metallic Green
>
> Um, ick.
>
>> Work Done:
>>
>> New Master Cylinder
>> New Front Chrome
>> New Door Hinges
>> New Rubber For Doorseals
>> Aftermarket A/C (runs cold according to owner)
>> New Low Profile Tires with Cragar Mag Wheels
>> Paint is about 2 years old
>> Runs Great (according to owner but I'd expect him to say that)
>> New Quarter Panels
>
> Most of these things are pretty easy, cheap bolt on type stuff. The
> "new quarters" and 2-year old paint are revealing, suggesting a heavy
> rust problem. If the quarters rusted out to the point of needing
> replacement, the cowl vents, floor pans, doors (both corners, inside
> and out), and front fenders (just ahead of door opening) are suspect
> too. Yes, check those door corners and front fenders with a magnet.
> It's very common just to slap on some bondo and paint it. The rust
> will come bubbling up two or three years later. (Funny he's selling
> on the two year anniversary of the repaint, huh?)
>
> About the cowl vents, the hood just in front of the windshield is a
> louvered panel, right? That panel is welded on with many dozen spot
> welds. Beneath that panel, on each side, is a "hat," a cylinder of
> sheet metal intended to admit air into the car and keep water out.
> Ford did not paint these cylinders. So they rust out around the
> bottom, admitting the water. The water runs down into the floor pans,
> where your feet go, and soaks the carpet and sits there. The floor
> pans rust out. The way to check for rusted hats is to run water into
> the cowl vents and check for water inside. You will see it, or at
> least feel it in the carpet. You can also check visually under the
> car, at the point where the floor pan goes from horizontal to a
> diagonal slope to join the firewall. It's called the Flintstone car
> condition, you know, how Fred and Barney had to propel their cars by
> sticking their feet through the floorboards and running on the
> pavement.
>>
>> Work Needed:
>>
>> Two Small Rips in Headliner (he has a new one to replace)
>
> This requires the removal of the windshield and backlight (although
> some claim to have installed a headliner without removing the glass).
>
>> Repair Emergency Brake (he has the new spring to replace)
>> No back bumper
>
> Available repro, cheap, although the repros never fit as well as OE.
>
>> Dashboard is cracked (I haven't seen the car yet so I don't know how
>> severe)
>
> Ditto.
>
>> Needs chrome around windows (I think this is what he said)
>
> He probably means the OE frame around the vent wing window is pitted.
>
>> He has new rear lights and bezels to be put in.
>> He's willing to include any parts he has with the car.
>
>> Mileage
>> Engine Details (Including to check if numbers match but how do I do
>> that?)
>
> Who cares? A 6 cyl will NEVER be a collectors item.
>
>> He claims to have about $7000 invested - could I get away with
> offering
>> him less, and if so how much?
>
> $3000. What a guy has in a car has NOTHING to do with it's value to
> you as a buyer on the national market. I've got $8000 in my '70
> Cougar; it's worth $4000 on a good day. I've got $21000 in my '65
> Mustang; it's worth $12000 if I'm lucky. Boo hoo for me, but that's
> the way it is in the old car hobby.
>
>> What kind of investment does this car turn out to be?
>
> A bad one.
>
>> Any other general advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Get the Ford shop manual, the four Osbourne assembly manuals, and a 200
> piece Craftsman tool set.
>
> 180 Out
> TS 28
>

Hey guys,

Thanks for the feedback. Based on your comments I decided against the
purchase. However, in looking for advice a friend of a friend has
spotted a 65' Coupe in Virginia that has a 289 and a 3speed manual for
a little over $3K.

Supposedly it needs some work, but with a 289 out of the box and
(hopefully) minimal work needed, it might be worth it. Anything I
should look out for?

Thanks again,

Willis

--
Mark C. Jack of all trades, master of none. (well, maybe a couple)

I r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d



"Willis" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hey guys,
>
> Thanks for the feedback. Based on your comments I decided against the
> purchase. However, in looking for advice a friend of a friend has
> spotted a 65' Coupe in Virginia that has a 289 and a 3speed manual for
> a little over $3K.
>
> Supposedly it needs some work, but with a 289 out of the box and
> (hopefully) minimal work needed, it might be worth it. Anything I
> should look out for?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Willis
>

Rust, rust, and rust. Any car driven in the snow has a potential because of
salt on the roads and also cars near the ocean. If you're looking at buying
a car from a far, buy a california car.

--
Mark C. Jack of all trades, master of none. (well, maybe a couple)

I r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d



"Willis" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hey guys,
>
> Thanks for the feedback. Based on your comments I decided against the
> purchase. However, in looking for advice a friend of a friend has
> spotted a 65' Coupe in Virginia that has a 289 and a 3speed manual for
> a little over $3K.
>
> Supposedly it needs some work, but with a 289 out of the box and
> (hopefully) minimal work needed, it might be worth it. Anything I
> should look out for?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Willis
>