Gasket and Freeze Plug issues...

Hi all,

This past weekend I took my car in to get its regular checkup. I have
a '94 Ford Explorer Sport, 4.0 liter engine, 6 cylinder (I think),
stick shift, and over 150,000 miles.

Everything went fine, except when the mechanic showed me the car as it
was hoisted up. He shined a flashlight on two circular indentations
that looked like they were leaking and told me that the gasket (I
assume he meant the head gasket) and a freeze plug needed to be
fixed. He said 3 days and $900.00. He told me I could probably drive
around for a little bit, but don't get into any big road trips or the
heat would cause my gasket to break, potentially damaging the rest of
the engine.

Just to be safe I took my car into another shop today and told them
what I was looking for. They hoisted the car up and took a look
around, and came back saying that they couldn't find a gasket issue,
but I have two freeze plugs leaking and that they could fix it for
around $170.

That's a big difference. I'm thinking of going to a third location to
see what they say. I also wanted to get the opinions of this group.
What do you think? How hard is a gasket issue to find?

Much thanks,
Erik

The head gasket issue is up for grabs.. I will not comment on that at this
point in time.....

However... your motor has two frost plugs that are leaking.... Two out of
many... The 94 Explorer isn't something I work on every day.... but I'd
guess at least 10 frost plugs. If two are leaking... how long before others
are leaking? Read my lips "I DON'T KNOW"... and neither do you... nor anyone
else...

Would I be far wrong in assuming you don't know the last time the cooling
system had a service performed?

This is top posted... If you do not like this format, pretend that there is
a lot of **** above it.... Pretend that there is nothing below it....
Pretend that you actually know people in a sense that you an actually touch
them.... Chat rooms... text messaging... what next? Whew... that was close.




"Erik" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
> This past weekend I took my car in to get its regular checkup. I have
> a '94 Ford Explorer Sport, 4.0 liter engine, 6 cylinder (I think),
> stick shift, and over 150,000 miles.
>
> Everything went fine, except when the mechanic showed me the car as it
> was hoisted up. He shined a flashlight on two circular indentations
> that looked like they were leaking and told me that the gasket (I
> assume he meant the head gasket) and a freeze plug needed to be
> fixed. He said 3 days and $900.00. He told me I could probably drive
> around for a little bit, but don't get into any big road trips or the
> heat would cause my gasket to break, potentially damaging the rest of
> the engine.
>
> Just to be safe I took my car into another shop today and told them
> what I was looking for. They hoisted the car up and took a look
> around, and came back saying that they couldn't find a gasket issue,
> but I have two freeze plugs leaking and that they could fix it for
> around $170.
>
> That's a big difference. I'm thinking of going to a third location to
> see what they say. I also wanted to get the opinions of this group.
> What do you think? How hard is a gasket issue to find?
>
> Much thanks,
> Erik

On Jul 16, 7:54*pm, > wrote:
> The head gasket issue is up for grabs.. I will not comment on that at this
> point in time.....

That's a critical point, however. For example, if the mechanic that
wants $900 spotted something that the mechanic that quoted $170 did
not, then that would suggest gasket issues are difficult to spot. If
such an issue is relatively easy to spot (to a trained eye), then the
first mechanic may be trying to fleece me. In any case, I think I may
try to get a third mechanic to take a look at the vehicle. That
should (hopefully) put an end to the question.

>
> However... your motor has two frost plugs that are leaking.... Two out of
> many... The 94 Explorer isn't something I work on every day.... but I'd
> guess at least 10 frost plugs. If two are leaking... how long before others
> are leaking? Read my lips "I DON'T KNOW"... and neither do you... nor anyone
> else...

I wasn't asking about when the plugs would start leaking. Based on
the fact that the two leaking plugs were found easily, I would think
that plugs are easy to spot to a trained eye. In either case, the
gasket issue is still the one that needs to be determined.

>
> Would I be far wrong in assuming you don't know the last time the cooling
> system had a service performed?
>

No, you wouldn't be wrong, although my car was looked at due to
overheating issues a couple of years ago. I don't remember the exact
parts that were replaced, but it didn't amount to more than a few
hundred dollars. Certainly not the $900 the above mentioned mechanic
wants. I was assured at the time that there was no significant damage
to the engine and its constituent parts. I think it largely came down
to the thermostat, but I don't remember exactly.

Or it may add even more fuel to the "who do you trust" fire..... You can
have someone "low ball" the quote because you "look good for the money".
Don't be surprised when surprises happen....

I don't know what your "day job" is... I do know that it isn't
automotive....

At some point in time, you will need to decide on who you will trust and who
you wont.... You want my (or anyones) advice - SIGHT UNSEEN - because you
are looking for cheaper...

You downplay leaking freeze plugs.... your car is 14 ****ing years old....
**** gets old, you go into denial, I get fed up and leave.... I don't spend
money - you do...

Enjoy...

Why the **** do I do this?




"Erik" > wrote in message
...
On Jul 16, 7:54 pm, > wrote:
> The head gasket issue is up for grabs.. I will not comment on that at this
> point in time.....

That's a critical point, however. For example, if the mechanic that
wants $900 spotted something that the mechanic that quoted $170 did
not, then that would suggest gasket issues are difficult to spot. If
such an issue is relatively easy to spot (to a trained eye), then the
first mechanic may be trying to fleece me. In any case, I think I may
try to get a third mechanic to take a look at the vehicle. That
should (hopefully) put an end to the question.

>
> However... your motor has two frost plugs that are leaking.... Two out of
> many... The 94 Explorer isn't something I work on every day.... but I'd
> guess at least 10 frost plugs. If two are leaking... how long before
> others
> are leaking? Read my lips "I DON'T KNOW"... and neither do you... nor
> anyone
> else...

I wasn't asking about when the plugs would start leaking. Based on
the fact that the two leaking plugs were found easily, I would think
that plugs are easy to spot to a trained eye. In either case, the
gasket issue is still the one that needs to be determined.

>
> Would I be far wrong in assuming you don't know the last time the cooling
> system had a service performed?
>

No, you wouldn't be wrong, although my car was looked at due to
overheating issues a couple of years ago. I don't remember the exact
parts that were replaced, but it didn't amount to more than a few
hundred dollars. Certainly not the $900 the above mentioned mechanic
wants. I was assured at the time that there was no significant damage
to the engine and its constituent parts. I think it largely came down
to the thermostat, but I don't remember exactly.

Yikes, Jim, you must have really had a rotten day! Usually when you
let someone have it, they well deserve it! This poor guy though - are
you trying to scare him off from asking advice? He OBVIOUSLY doesn't
know much about cars (isn't even sure if his own car has six
cylinders). He knows he has leaking freeze plugs (two different techs
have pointed this out) and intends to get them replaced (no denial here
that I can see). One tech, however, tells him that he has a leaking
head gasket, another tells him no. Now he asks if a leaking gasket is
a difficult thing for a trained tech to spot - should he get a third
opinion.

Why beat up on the poor guy?

(I'm sure you've noticed that I, also, am top posting. Always have,
always will, but I don't feel the need to make a big issue of it.)

Now you can tear into me. I probably do deserve it after that last statement.


On 2008-07-16 23:16:31 -0500, > said:

> Or it may add even more fuel to the "who do you trust" fire..... You can
> have someone "low ball" the quote because you "look good for the money".
> Don't be surprised when surprises happen....
>
> I don't know what your "day job" is... I do know that it isn't
> automotive....
>
> At some point in time, you will need to decide on who you will trust and who
> you wont.... You want my (or anyones) advice - SIGHT UNSEEN - because you
> are looking for cheaper...
>
> You downplay leaking freeze plugs.... your car is 14 ****ing years old....
> **** gets old, you go into denial, I get fed up and leave.... I don't spend
> money - you do...
>
> Enjoy...
>
> Why the **** do I do this?
>
>
>
>
> "Erik" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Jul 16, 7:54 pm, > wrote:
>> The head gasket issue is up for grabs.. I will not comment on that at this
>> point in time.....
>
> That's a critical point, however. For example, if the mechanic that
> wants $900 spotted something that the mechanic that quoted $170 did
> not, then that would suggest gasket issues are difficult to spot. If
> such an issue is relatively easy to spot (to a trained eye), then the
> first mechanic may be trying to fleece me. In any case, I think I may
> try to get a third mechanic to take a look at the vehicle. That
> should (hopefully) put an end to the question.
>
>>
>> However... your motor has two frost plugs that are leaking.... Two out of
>> many... The 94 Explorer isn't something I work on every day.... but I'd
>> guess at least 10 frost plugs. If two are leaking... how long before
>> others
>> are leaking? Read my lips "I DON'T KNOW"... and neither do you... nor
>> anyone
>> else...
>
> I wasn't asking about when the plugs would start leaking. Based on
> the fact that the two leaking plugs were found easily, I would think
> that plugs are easy to spot to a trained eye. In either case, the
> gasket issue is still the one that needs to be determined.
>
>>
>> Would I be far wrong in assuming you don't know the last time the cooling
>> system had a service performed?
>>
>
> No, you wouldn't be wrong, although my car was looked at due to
> overheating issues a couple of years ago. I don't remember the exact
> parts that were replaced, but it didn't amount to more than a few
> hundred dollars. Certainly not the $900 the above mentioned mechanic
> wants. I was assured at the time that there was no significant damage
> to the engine and its constituent parts. I think it largely came down
> to the thermostat, but I don't remember exactly.

On Jul 16, 9:16*pm, > wrote:
> I don't know what your "day job" is... I do know that it isn't
> automotive....

Never indicated that it was. That's why I posted to this board.

>
> At some point in time, you will need to decide on who you will trust and who
> you wont.... You want my (or anyones) advice - SIGHT UNSEEN - because you
> are looking for cheaper...

I'm not looking for cheaper, I'm trying to make sure I don't get
swindled. Why would I pay for an expensive part that doesn't need
repair at this time? That's why I asked. If it needs to be replaced,
so be it. It was a simple question on how easy it was to spot gasket
issues.

>
> Why the **** do I do this?

It gives you a feeling of power and a chance to vent, apparently.

Erik wrote:
> On Jul 16, 9:16 pm, > wrote:
>> I don't know what your "day job" is... I do know that it isn't
>> automotive....
>
> Never indicated that it was. That's why I posted to this board.
>
>> At some point in time, you will need to decide on who you will trust and who
>> you wont.... You want my (or anyones) advice - SIGHT UNSEEN - because you
>> are looking for cheaper...
>
> I'm not looking for cheaper, I'm trying to make sure I don't get
> swindled. Why would I pay for an expensive part that doesn't need
> repair at this time? That's why I asked. If it needs to be replaced,
> so be it. It was a simple question on how easy it was to spot gasket
> issues.
>
>> Why the **** do I do this?
>
> It gives you a feeling of power and a chance to vent, apparently.

It's not hard for a mechanic to diagnose a bad head gasket even if he
isn't a super master god like mechanic with a million dollar machine
(that customers should be glad to pay for) like Jim. Jim dispenses good
answers when his panties aren't all bunched up in his ass because you've
got poor grammar or you bottom post. When he chooses to answer his
expertise is worth putting up with his grouchy superior nature. sometimes.

You maybe a rocket scientist but to Jim you are a dumbass because you
can't diagnose a bad head gasket.

Just curious; who is this obnoxious "mechanic."..? Appears as though his
name is "Jim", but the only Jim that I know that posts with some knowledge
is "Warman" ! Having been on this NG for over five years, that Gent would
never have responded to anyone in such a crude manner. Warman can "cut ya"
but does it with more finesse.... Did a little back checking and Mr
"mechanic" seems to be a fairly new responder whose almost every response is
of the same nature; Holier than thou (at least in his opinion) .
Bill

BTW: I also am a top poster. Makes more sense to me <G>


"Bob" > wrote in message
...
> Erik wrote:
>> On Jul 16, 9:16 pm, > wrote:
>>> I don't know what your "day job" is... I do know that it isn't
>>> automotive....
>>
>> Never indicated that it was. That's why I posted to this board.
>>
>>> At some point in time, you will need to decide on who you will trust and
>>> who
>>> you wont.... You want my (or anyones) advice - SIGHT UNSEEN - because
>>> you
>>> are looking for cheaper...
>>
>> I'm not looking for cheaper, I'm trying to make sure I don't get
>> swindled. Why would I pay for an expensive part that doesn't need
>> repair at this time? That's why I asked. If it needs to be replaced,
>> so be it. It was a simple question on how easy it was to spot gasket
>> issues.
>>
>>> Why the **** do I do this?
>>
>> It gives you a feeling of power and a chance to vent, apparently.
>
> It's not hard for a mechanic to diagnose a bad head gasket even if he
> isn't a super master god like mechanic with a million dollar machine (that
> customers should be glad to pay for) like Jim. Jim dispenses good answers
> when his panties aren't all bunched up in his ass because you've got poor
> grammar or you bottom post. When he chooses to answer his expertise is
> worth putting up with his grouchy superior nature. sometimes.
>
> You maybe a rocket scientist but to Jim you are a dumbass because you
> can't diagnose a bad head gasket.
>
>
>

"Erik" > wrote in message
...
On Jul 16, 9:16 pm, > wrote:
> I don't know what your "day job" is... I do know that it isn't
> automotive....

Never indicated that it was. That's why I posted to this board.

>
> At some point in time, you will need to decide on who you will trust and
who
> you wont.... You want my (or anyones) advice - SIGHT UNSEEN - because you
> are looking for cheaper...

I'm not looking for cheaper, I'm trying to make sure I don't get
swindled. Why would I pay for an expensive part that doesn't need
repair at this time? That's why I asked. If it needs to be replaced,
so be it. It was a simple question on how easy it was to spot gasket
issues.

When my '91 Explorer needed a new/rebuilt transmission I shopped around for
the best price. Bad idea. The place I took it to said it would cost $750
but when they were done it was more like $1800. Plus they put in a bad
rebuilt the first time and had to tow it back to the shop. Plus a bunch of
other crap I won't even go into. Bottom line: try to find a reputable
mechanic. Sometimes it costs less to pay more.

OK, so we are pretty sure your freeze plugs are leaking. But we are not
quite sure about which gasket Mechanic #1 was refering to. It it's a head
gasket this can be tested by checking the cylinder compression. Usually one
(or two adjoining) cylinders will have low compression if the head is
leaking. There may also be bubbles in the coolant and there are suppposedly
tests strips to check for exhuast gases in the coolant. Any decent mechanic
should know this. Someone at Jiffy Lube or such a place might not.
Replacing both head gaskets and checking the heads for cracks etc could
account for the other $700 or so. I think that is high for only one head.

Now, if the gasket Mechanic #1 was refering to was the oil pan gasket then
the engine has to be hoisted up to get it out of there. That could cost
some $$$. But I have a hard time imaging an oil pan gasket suddenly blowing
out so that probably is not what he meant. There is also the intake
manifold gasket (mainly the lower) that could very well be the problem.
Since we are already pretty sure your cooling system needs some maintenance
I would say this is likely and it can blow suddenly spewing coolant all over
the place and the engine could overheat quickly and you would be stuck.
Replacing this gasket requires removing a lot of stuff and scraping off the
old gasket etc and I think it would probably cost around $500-$700 to have
someone do it. I also think $700 is a bit high but you may be paying the
extra for someone who is going to take their time and do a thorough job and
guarantee their work. Plus they seem to be professional enough to look for
other potential problems. You might even ask to have the thermostat and
thermostat gasket replaced while he's in there. It's probably due too.
Maybe some new spark plugs, wires, and serpentine belt are needed about now
also. And perhaps new radiator and heater hoses. So don't be surprised if
he finds a lot of other stuff. You may very well need it. This is also why
there are many used Explorers for sale. After the last trip to the mechanic
with an estimate of over $4000 for a car that's worth $2000, well, time for
a trade-in unless you can do the work yourself.

900 bucks? Sounds like a good profit from a head gasket replacement and a
couple a freeze plugs.How about a complete valve job and both heads done
correctly?couldnt be that much more money could it?I would also try the
expanding rubber freeze plugs in the meantime , and consider a complete
rebuild for that kind of investment. Sometimes it isnt that much more work
to do everything over ,such as a rebuild.
"Erik" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
> This past weekend I took my car in to get its regular checkup. I have
> a '94 Ford Explorer Sport, 4.0 liter engine, 6 cylinder (I think),
> stick shift, and over 150,000 miles.
>
> Everything went fine, except when the mechanic showed me the car as it
> was hoisted up. He shined a flashlight on two circular indentations
> that looked like they were leaking and told me that the gasket (I
> assume he meant the head gasket) and a freeze plug needed to be
> fixed. He said 3 days and $900.00. He told me I could probably drive
> around for a little bit, but don't get into any big road trips or the
> heat would cause my gasket to break, potentially damaging the rest of
> the engine.
>
> Just to be safe I took my car into another shop today and told them
> what I was looking for. They hoisted the car up and took a look
> around, and came back saying that they couldn't find a gasket issue,
> but I have two freeze plugs leaking and that they could fix it for
> around $170.
>
> That's a big difference. I'm thinking of going to a third location to
> see what they say. I also wanted to get the opinions of this group.
> What do you think? How hard is a gasket issue to find?
>
> Much thanks,
> Erik