What Ford should do about the Vette

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 01:48:37 GMT, " >
wrote:

> Why?
>
> The $50-60K (USD) domestic market is limited in size. Why would ford
>want to compete in a market that has limited size and limted sales
>opportunity, especially given the Vette's dominance. Would you be
>willing or able to fork over the 60k to buy a GR-1/super-cobra/whatever?
>
> I think Ford is better off staying in their own market niche. Base GT,
>Cobra, Lightning, etc. High-end performance is great, but how can one
>use it these days on the street? I can barely open up my 97 cobra in my
>locale without encountering gobs of traffic. How much performance does
>one need in a street car? If I want to run 11's, I'll buy a car to do
>that...

I agree, stick with what has worked. 20K v6 models for mass
production, sell a lot of GT's and thow in some Cobra's that have
performance close or equal to a vette like the 03/04's did.
I mean, how fun is it to drive a 35K cobra that can keep up with a 50k
vette ?
Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying

"Rein" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 01:48:37 GMT, " >
> wrote:
> I mean, how fun is it to drive a 35K cobra that can keep up with a 50k
> vette ?

Lots of fun until you come to a corner.

Howard
89 5.0 LX vert


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Joe wrote:
> Wound Up > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>Joe wrote:
>>
>>>RichA > wrote in
:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 25 Jan 2005 03:05:07 GMT, Joe > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>RichA > wrote in
om:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Simple; Release a new Cobra using the 427 small block
>>>>>>they developed recently.
>>>>>>-Rich
>>>>>
>>>>>Would that be competition for the base C6 or the Z06?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What is the base C6 going to be? The current 400hp model?
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes - it's the 400/400 6.0 liter LS2.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>They should ignore it and concentrate on making a Vette killer
>>>>at a lower price point. Handling might be a problem.
>>>>-Rich
>>>
>>>
>>>180's right IMO - At this point, Ford can't possibly come up with
>>>anything to seriously compete with the Corvette.
>>
>>What about using the '03 390/390 Roots-blown 32v 4.6 DOHC in a
>>dropped, tightened up new Mustang with a T56 and an active stability
>>control system? It wouldn't have to out outrun it on the top end; I
>>mean, 8th grade stat geeks might bicker, but what it if could run
>>the Vette on a strip and a road course, be cheaper, and more
>>user-friendly too boot? I think Ford has a few options outside the
>>exotic GT to compete with the Vette for less with the Mustang
>>platform. "They have the technology"...
>
>
> ...but not the will or the incentive.

Unfortunately true.

>
>>And the PR, Mustangs outrunning Vettes again...
>
>
> Now that's an interesting sidebar. What years did Mustangs outrun
> Corvettes? I don't know, I'm asking.

I was thinking about this. I know there at least a couple. I thought
1968, but don't think so on second thought... It would take some
research, given the history of both. Maybe the '95 351R... hmmm...

This is perfect timing to make it happen. Horsepower wars redux.

>
> Joe
> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC


--
Wound Up

1967 Mustang Coupe, restored & modified

"A pessimist is just a well-informed optimist." - Anonymous

On 26 Jan 2005 13:30:23 GMT, Joe > wrote:

>Wound Up > wrote in
:
>
>> Joe wrote:
>>> RichA > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 25 Jan 2005 03:05:07 GMT, Joe > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>RichA > wrote in
om:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Simple; Release a new Cobra using the 427 small block
>>>>>>they developed recently.
>>>>>>-Rich
>>>>>
>>>>>Would that be competition for the base C6 or the Z06?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What is the base C6 going to be? The current 400hp model?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes - it's the 400/400 6.0 liter LS2.
>>>
>>>
>>>>They should ignore it and concentrate on making a Vette killer
>>>>at a lower price point. Handling might be a problem.
>>>>-Rich
>>>
>>>
>>> 180's right IMO - At this point, Ford can't possibly come up with
>>> anything to seriously compete with the Corvette.
>>
>> What about using the '03 390/390 Roots-blown 32v 4.6 DOHC in a
>> dropped, tightened up new Mustang with a T56 and an active stability
>> control system? It wouldn't have to out outrun it on the top end; I
>> mean, 8th grade stat geeks might bicker, but what it if could run
>> the Vette on a strip and a road course, be cheaper, and more
>> user-friendly too boot? I think Ford has a few options outside the
>> exotic GT to compete with the Vette for less with the Mustang
>> platform. "They have the technology"...
>
>...but not the will or the incentive.
>
>> And the PR, Mustangs outrunning Vettes again...
>
>Now that's an interesting sidebar. What years did Mustangs outrun
>Corvettes? I don't know, I'm asking.

I beat most same year Vettes in my 1988 LX 5.0.
-Rich

On 26 Jan 2005 17:09:33 GMT, Joe > wrote:

>ZombyWoof > wrote in
:
>
>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:17:26 -0600, "Curtis Metzler"
>> > wrote something wonderfully witty:
>>
>>>i agree it would be hard for ford to compete with the vette, but it
>>>could be done, i myself wish they would make a comparable car at the
>>>vette's price
>>>
>> After missing out on the start of this thread and reading some of
>> the replies it became obvious to me that ya`all for get that Chevy &
>> Ford at one time did compete in what is the Corvette's arena. With
>> Ford handing GM the Corvette's ass in a bag. How could ya all
>> forget about the two seater T-Bird? The original, not the current
>> reconstituted one.
>
>I didn't forget, but I didn't think that Ford "handed GM the
>Corvette's ass in a bag", either.
>
>> When Ford's new two-seater was introduced as a '55 model it became
>> an immediate success. Whereas Chevrolet sold only 700 1955
>> Corvettes, even though it now had the new Chevy overhead valve V-8,
>> Ford sold 16,155 Thunderbirds. That is 23 times the amount of
>> Corvettes sold for the math impaired.
>>
>> In fact the dismal Corvette sales had General Motors on the verge of
>> discontinuing it, but the introduction of the T-bird convinced GM to
>> keep it. So it was actually Ford that saved the Corvette.
>>
>> A performance comparison with the '55 Corvette V-8 found the T-bird
>> slower. Road & Track magazine (7/55) reported that the Corvette, in
>> spite of its 2-speed "Powerglide" automatic, could sprint to 96 km/h
>> (60 mph) in a quick 8.7 seconds, and reach a top speed of 188 km/h
>> (116.9 mph). R&T (3/55) reported that the automatic Thunderbird took
>> 9.5 seconds to reach 96 (60), and could only manage 177 km/h (110.1
>> mph).
>>
>> For 1957 the basic theme remained, but again with some changes. A
>> new combination grille and bumper adorned the front end, and the
>> trunk was stretched five inches, allowing the spare tire to migrate
>> back inside, although the Continental mounting was still optional.
>> In keeping with Detroit's fin craze, little canted blades sprouted
>> from each rear fender of the '57 T-bird.
>>
>> The bigger news was under the hood, however. The 5.1 litre V-8 could
>> now be had with an optional Paxton-McCulloch, belt-driven
>> centrifugal supercharger, bringing horsepower to 300. Can you say
>> "Wowza"? How many of those babies you still around, even at
>> high-end car shows?
>>
>> Power for the base 4.8 litre engine was up also to 212, and the
>> normally aspirated 5.1 developed 245, although a few modified
>> versions put out more. The supercharged 'Bird would prove to be very
>> rare, with only 208 being produced.
>>
>> Although it had a good year, selling 21,380 '57 Thunderbirds, and
>> still out-selling the Corvette, this would be the last of the Ford
>> factory two-seaters until it's recent rebirth. Ford Division's
>> austere general manager, Robert McNamara, one of the post-World War
>> II "Whiz Kids," decided there was more profit in four-passenger
>> Thunderbirds. In so doing it left the true sports car field to the
>> Corvette and the rest as they say is history.
>>
>> McNamara would be proved correct dollar wise. The larger "personal
>> luxury" Thunderbird did earn far more money for Ford than the
>> Corvette would for GM. But two-seater T-bird aficionados never
>> forgave him.
>>
>> **Disclaimer (portions of the above are from the net)
>>
>>
>> Ya`all gotta remember you history. Chevy never fought against the
>> Mustang with the Vette, nor did Ford ever plan to fight the Vette
>> with the Mustang. That was a different battle and a different
>> history lesson altogether.
>
>Exactly. The big point here is that the T-Bird evolved into a "larger
>personal luxury" car (as noted above), while the Corvette moved more
>in the sports car vein. Except for the few early years, Ford never
>made a vehicle to compete with the Corvette.
>

They have a performance hole. The Mustang GT all the way to the GT.
$29,000 versus, what, $125,000? Vettes about $60,000.
-Rich

In article >, Joe wrote:
> (Brent P) wrote in
> :
>
>> In article >, Joe wrote:
>>
>>> 180's right IMO - At this point, Ford can't possibly come up with
>>> anything to seriously compete with the Corvette.
>>
>> A cost reduced, built for production version of GT.
>
> In so many words, a stripper? Or a Cobra?

No. A cost reduced version. Instead of say a billet windshield washer
bottle, a simple plastic from a mustang or crown vic for instance. Other
parts can be made by less expensive processes, etc. The car will probably
be heavier and not handle quite as well, but it will cost significantly
less to build. Version may not even be the right word since what will
result will be a different car.

> Ford won't build a stripper because there's not enough market for one.
> It wouldn't compete with the Corvette anyway - the 'Vette has some
> very nice toys in it.

For production means adding the various items needed for a production
volume vehicle. Again, with borrowing from the rest of the line.

GM can do it, Ford can do it if they want to.

Ford however is still into instant collectable marketing so they won't.

In article >, Joe wrote:

>> How can you say that when aftermarket firms do it all the time?
>> Saleen, for one.

> So why hasn't Ford done it?

Not part of their marketing plan.

"ZombyWoof" > wrote in message
...
>Ford also has the entire RWD
> large sedan market sewed up. Yeah Chrysler has brought out the 300c,
> but that baby is peeking at damn near 40K decently equipped. I can
> get a comparable Crown Vic or Grand Marquis for half of that. Yeah OK
> they don't have the Hemi. BFD.

Ford has the granny and taxi cab market sewn up. People are happily paying
$40K for those 300Cs.

>And let's not forget that the F-150
> has owned it's market space for what two decades?

Not if you add Chevy to GM brand truck sales.

> I think Ford knows what it is doing. And it isn't playing catch-up.

Ford has been stumbling for quite a while and the new Mustang is the only
bright star. Toyota and Nissan are nibbling on the truck market. The new
500 sedan is a styling flop. The Focus earned a terrible reputation for
reliability (trumping its good reviews), and has poor resale value.

-John

On 27 Jan 2005 01:56:19 GMT, Joe > wrote:

>RichA > wrote in
:
>
>> On 26 Jan 2005 13:30:23 GMT, Joe > wrote:
>>
>>>Wound Up > wrote in
:
>>>
>>>> Joe wrote:
>>>>> RichA > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 25 Jan 2005 03:05:07 GMT, Joe > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>RichA > wrote in
>>>>>>>news:1e7bv01beo8blta16jq86los5ulg4rhr6a@4ax .com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Simple; Release a new Cobra using the 427 small block
>>>>>>>>they developed recently.
>>>>>>>>-Rich
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Would that be competition for the base C6 or the Z06?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What is the base C6 going to be? The current 400hp model?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes - it's the 400/400 6.0 liter LS2.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>They should ignore it and concentrate on making a Vette killer
>>>>>>at a lower price point. Handling might be a problem.
>>>>>>-Rich
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 180's right IMO - At this point, Ford can't possibly come up with
>>>>> anything to seriously compete with the Corvette.
>>>>
>>>> What about using the '03 390/390 Roots-blown 32v 4.6 DOHC in a
>>>> dropped, tightened up new Mustang with a T56 and an active
>stability
>>>> control system? It wouldn't have to out outrun it on the top end;
>I
>>>> mean, 8th grade stat geeks might bicker, but what it if could run
>>>> the Vette on a strip and a road course, be cheaper, and more
>>>> user-friendly too boot? I think Ford has a few options outside
>the
>>>> exotic GT to compete with the Vette for less with the Mustang
>>>> platform. "They have the technology"...
>>>
>>>...but not the will or the incentive.
>>>
>>>> And the PR, Mustangs outrunning Vettes again...
>>>
>>>Now that's an interesting sidebar. What years did Mustangs outrun
>>>Corvettes? I don't know, I'm asking.
>>
>> I beat most same year Vettes in my 1988 LX 5.0.
>> -Rich
>
>Factory, Rich. Anybody can tweak any car to beat a Corvette given
>enough time and money.

My car was dead stock. From 0-50, the Vette had maybe a half car
lead, from then on, it was always the same, they'd fall behind.
Top speed, I have no idea but the LX would hit 148mph.
-Rich

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 22:33:15 -0500, ZombyWoof >
wrote:

>On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:13:54 -0500, RichA > wrote
>something wonderfully witty:
>
>>On 26 Jan 2005 13:30:23 GMT, Joe > wrote:
>>
>>>Wound Up > wrote in
:
>>>
>>>> Joe wrote:
>>>>> RichA > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 25 Jan 2005 03:05:07 GMT, Joe > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>RichA > wrote in
>>>>>>>news:1e7bv01beo8blta16jq86los5ulg4rhr6a@4ax .com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Simple; Release a new Cobra using the 427 small block
>>>>>>>>they developed recently.
>>>>>>>>-Rich
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Would that be competition for the base C6 or the Z06?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What is the base C6 going to be? The current 400hp model?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes - it's the 400/400 6.0 liter LS2.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>They should ignore it and concentrate on making a Vette killer
>>>>>>at a lower price point. Handling might be a problem.
>>>>>>-Rich
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 180's right IMO - At this point, Ford can't possibly come up with
>>>>> anything to seriously compete with the Corvette.
>>>>
>>>> What about using the '03 390/390 Roots-blown 32v 4.6 DOHC in a
>>>> dropped, tightened up new Mustang with a T56 and an active stability
>>>> control system? It wouldn't have to out outrun it on the top end; I
>>>> mean, 8th grade stat geeks might bicker, but what it if could run
>>>> the Vette on a strip and a road course, be cheaper, and more
>>>> user-friendly too boot? I think Ford has a few options outside the
>>>> exotic GT to compete with the Vette for less with the Mustang
>>>> platform. "They have the technology"...
>>>
>>>...but not the will or the incentive.
>>>
>>>> And the PR, Mustangs outrunning Vettes again...
>>>
>>>Now that's an interesting sidebar. What years did Mustangs outrun
>>>Corvettes? I don't know, I'm asking.
>>
>>I beat most same year Vettes in my 1988 LX 5.0.
>>-Rich
>>
>If the driver was a retard, yeah I'll give you that.

All of them? It's possible, I guess. What I do remember was
that there was nothing on the road (apart from exotica) stock
that could beat the Mustang then. When I got my 93, it was
a different story.
-Rich