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Ignition Timing: How Automated?
When setting the ignition timing of 1990s Honda cars, how
critical is it for the fixed pointer to line up exactly with the center BTDC timing mark (of the three BTDC marks) on the crankshaft pulley? Background: The second step for setting the timing on my 91 Civic (as well as other Hondas) is to jumper the "Ignition Timing Adjusting Connector." I thought what this did was keep the car's computer from trying to adjust the timing automatically while one was monkeying with the housing etc. Correct? Then one rotates the distributor housing until the timing light shows the pointer lining up with the center of the three red marks. The timing light flashes according to when #1 cylinder fires. The crankshaft will then be oriented so that, ideally, I guess firing occurs--under these conditions, namely idle, normal operating temp, no ECU input, and so forth--at 18 degrees BTDC. Correct? The Civic manual specifies 16 to 20 degrees BTDC at 675-750 RPM. It does look like the red marks farthest apart could be about four timing degrees apart. But what if, because it's so hard to see those pulley marks (with middle-aged eyes; the grime on the pulley; and the interference of the parts above the pulley), the pointer is off and actually points closer to one of the two outside marks? Will the computer correct for this? In other words, when setting timing on modern cars (say 1990 and newer or so), is one just getting the timing in the ball park, and then the computer does the rest? After all, the computer does have crank angle and RPM measurements and I guess also firing inputs to it. It is advancing/retarding the firing timing as appropriate for different conditions, via input to the igniter as shown on schematics, correct? My mileage was down a bit (from 40++ to just under 39) for a few tanks of gas through October and November. Granted the temperature dropped unusually low for my parts. But I'd also been messing with the valve lash and ignition timing a bit. On the most recent tank, upon fillup the other day, the mileage came back up to 41 mpg. Should I be all that concerned about aligning that center white mark perfectly with the pointer? The best excerpt I could find on this topic appears under the "tuneup" sections of the autozone manuals and my Chilton's manual, and the UK site's manuals. See for example: |
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#2
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Ignition Timing: How Automated?
Yes you disable the timing adjustments before setting the base timing.
The actual timing once things are hooked back up will be more advanced than 18 degrees at idle. The lower the cylinder charge the slower the flame front speed hence the greater the advance needed to keep the starting and ending times for combustion roughly symetrical about TDC. Never heard of self-correcting, closed loop timing, except for those cars with knock sensors. However I believe all adjustments made by the ecu assume a correct basic mechanical setting. |
#3
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Ignition Timing: How Automated?
Elle wrote:
> When setting the ignition timing of 1990s Honda cars, how > critical is it for the fixed pointer to line up exactly with > the center BTDC timing mark (of the three BTDC marks) on the > crankshaft pulley? if you want it to be "correct", the center mark needs to be exactly aligned. > > Background: > The second step for setting the timing on my 91 Civic (as > well as other Hondas) is to jumper the "Ignition Timing > Adjusting Connector." I thought what this did was keep the > car's computer from trying to adjust the timing > automatically while one was monkeying with the housing etc. > Correct? correct. > > Then one rotates the distributor housing until the timing > light shows the pointer lining up with the center of the > three red marks. The timing light flashes according to when > #1 cylinder fires. The crankshaft will then be oriented so > that, ideally, I guess firing occurs--under these > conditions, namely idle, normal operating temp, no ECU > input, and so forth--at 18 degrees BTDC. Correct? correct. > > The Civic manual specifies 16 to 20 degrees BTDC at 675-750 > RPM. It does look like the red marks farthest apart could be > about four timing degrees apart. > > But what if, because it's so hard to see those pulley marks > (with middle-aged eyes; the grime on the pulley; and the > interference of the parts above the pulley), the pointer is > off and actually points closer to one of the two outside > marks? if that's the case, it's not set right. > Will the computer correct for this? not on yours because tdc is determined by the distributor, not a flywheel sensor like on later models. > In other words, > when setting timing on modern cars (say 1990 and newer or > so), is one just getting the timing in the ball park, and > then the computer does the rest? not on any model without the flywheel tdc sensor. > > After all, the computer does have crank angle and RPM > measurements and I guess also firing inputs to it. It is > advancing/retarding the firing timing as appropriate for > different conditions, via input to the igniter as shown on > schematics, correct? only if it has an accurate [fixed] reference. > > My mileage was down a bit (from 40++ to just under 39) for a > few tanks of gas through October and November. Granted the > temperature dropped unusually low for my parts. But I'd also > been messing with the valve lash and ignition timing a bit. > On the most recent tank, upon fillup the other day, the > mileage came back up to 41 mpg. Should I be all that > concerned about aligning that center white mark perfectly > with the pointer? yes. too advanced means higher combustion temperature and greater nox production, oil consumption, etc. too retarded means excess gas consumption and lackluster performance. > > The best excerpt I could find on this topic appears under > the "tuneup" sections of the autozone manuals and my > Chilton's manual, and the UK site's manuals. See for > example: > i see no example! bottom line, it all depends on the type of ignition system you have. your vintage honda has all its ignition timing and injection timing set by the position sensors in the distributor. if they're not correct, everything is off, so try and get it as correct as possible. unless you have one of the really high intensity kick-butt timing lights, set the timing at night. that way, you can see the marks much better without too much ambient reducing contrast. |
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