How Not To Save Detroit

On Jun 8, 6:36*am, "krp" > wrote:
> "Scott in SoCal" > wrote in messagenews:jk4p25hnep7akvsu49d836vu4u295otnjs@4ax .com...
>
> > In message >, Brent
> > > wrote:
>
> >>In three years GM will be profitable and the government can sell it off
> >>just like Nixon promised with amtrack!
>
> > Nixon promised that?
>
> * * YEP. He promised to make Amtrak profitable in 2 years. *Just like the
> Feds promise to have the Post Office turn a profit. Don't worry - they will
> "FIX" your healthcare!

Put the government in charge of the desert, and within 10 years you'll
have a shortage of sand.

Only idiots vote for more of government.

On 2009-06-08, krp > wrote:
>
> "Brent" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2009-06-06, krp > wrote:
>>>
>>> "Brent" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On 2009-06-05, Frog Breeches > wrote:
>>>>> C. E. White wrote:
>>>>>> Would be really funny except it is a little too close to the truth:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.minyanville.com/audiovideo/703/1/23
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> They didn't bail out Detroit or American Industry or Americans.
>>>>> They bailed out Wall Street and Global Speculators and Banking.
>>>>> They should have bailed out the victims and let them(us)rescue the
>>>>> firms
>>>>> deserving bailing out with our spending.
>>>>
>>>> The bankers' people in the government bailed out the bankers. Goldman
>>>> Sachs didn't give all that money to Obama just for fun.
>>>>
>>>>> The result we have is that there is endless supply, of proposed and
>>>>> already implemented tax increases, fees, revenue enhancement, lost
>>>>> jobs,
>>>>> manufacturing base, and a devaluing currency.
>>>>> That's all upside down and they keep talking about preserving and
>>>>> improving it.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes one might think that's what they want achieve.
>>>>
>>>> GM is the brink of becoming the Amtrack of autos.
>>>
>>> HEY WAIT! Nancy Pelosi has PLANS to SAVE GM and bring it back to its
>>> former
>>> glory. She has designed a 2012 SUV that is GREEN for Chevrolet.
>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/84685146@N00/347429384/
>>
>> In three years GM will be profitable and the government can sell it off
>> just like Nixon promised with amtrack!
>>
>
> Yeah right. In 3 years there will be NO General Motors.

GM will be with us so long as the dollar doesn't collapse and maybe even
if it does. Government is a bottomless pit of money, it will either take
it from people or have the fed print it (which is the same thing as the
printing takes the money via inflation). GM and probably chrysler will
form the amtrak of autos. Ford better be watching their back because GM
was known for lobbying government for regulation to hurt its competition
before (not that others didn't do it), now it is part of the government.

> the CEO - STILL doesn't know how to START a car!

any source for this interesting factoid?

> When you have an asshole with a Harvard
> MBA (bean counting) degree who has absolutely NO idea what makes the tin
> MOVE - what do you think we're going to get? MORE OF THE SAME "****" has
> built for the last 40 years. Listen to the GOOF at his "PRESS" conferences,
> when he is asked a simple CAR question - his eyes start to glaze over and he
> gets this dumb, deer in the headlights expression on his face and starts
> going; "Duhhhhhhhhhhhh!" Tell me this, let's forget for a second that GM
> cars have been PURE ****. Let's PRETEND that they start building GOOD cars.
> Why buy an ALMOST Toyota for $65,000 when you can buy a REAL Toyota for
> $18,000? The jerk just doesn't GET IT! EVEN IF the GM plants re-tooled to
> make the TOYOTA AN EXACT copy, manufacturing costs AT A MINIMUM would
> require it to cost at least TWICE what it costs to make a REAL Toyota. And
> the government plans to keep throwing an endless supply of FUNNY MONEY at
> it.

GM will now be used as the tool of government so the rulers can force us
to drive what they politically determine we should drive for the good of
society. This is one of the reasons why Ford will be destroyed. The
federal reserve system makes it so that the government always has the
money for all sorts of nonsense, including this. Some people consider it
crazy talk to end the fed, but it's the only way to stop government from
doing whatever it damn well pleases without directly taxing for it.

It doesn't matter if you won't buy a GM car because eventually, that's
all you will be able to buy. every automaker that is left will produce
different versions of the same government designed hunk of crap. Designs
by people who never held a productive job in their lives, but rather,
like Obama, spent their entire careers in government looking to tell
other people what to do.

> I've seen the ads. I'll buy a FORD first! Don't tell me that SOMEDAY -
> when PIGS FLY you'll build a car worth considering. BUILD IT NOW. For all
> the BULL**** from Detroit, they could have electric cars on the road TODAY.
> NOT 20 years from now, or even next month. All the talk from these assholes
> is pure BULL****. You see - it is HARD to make an electric motor that
> breaks down all the time so you can sell assloads of PARTS to fix the ****.

Electrics themselves are mostly smoke and mirrors nonsense. The
breakthrough in battery technology hasn't happened yet and the electric
power doesn't come from zero point either. Even the japanese hybrids are
silly when compared to their basic gasoline counterparts. Even at $4/gal
gas they take the lifetime of the car to make back the additional
purchase cost. (provided the battery pack isn't replaced)

> Did you ever price out the cost of PARTS for a car? Let's PLAY with the
> little ****box Aveo. (Daewoo) You can buy it for $15,000. BUT if you bought
> the parts it would cost $ 97,850.

That's because of the inventory, distribution, etc... The same would be
true of just about any product you can buy if you could even buy all the
parts. And before the computer example is tossed in, go down a level,
and build your own sound cards, motherboards, etc from individually
purchased SMT parts. The reason it's competitive is because each major
component is a finished product. Also if government regulated
electronics like it does cars electronics companies wouldn't be able to
counteract the inflation the way they do.

> Oh and the range of the cars? GM will
> only allow a TEENY TINY battery with a range of 40 miles. There are
> batteries that will give at least $150 miles.

On what planet? the batteries for a 150 miles will weigh more the than
rest of the aveo.

> The car companies could get
> together and build the cars with easily removable battery packs. On a trip
> you could pull in a service station, they could yank your battery pack, and
> replace it with a fully charged pack off the rack. Then recharge the pack
> for a customer down the line.

Really? You want to get someone's crappy battery pack in place of your
good one? You get to the next exchange and they tell you your pack is
crap and refuse to accept it and you're SOL. Lots of people do not take
proper care of their cars and this system will help them at everyone
else's expense.

> Before the jerkoffs at GM while about that idea. When Henry Ford first
> started mass producing his cars, there were almost NO gas stations in
> America.With some work these battery packs could be designed to hit 400
> miles between charges. Most of the time you just plug it in at night.

When parking lots are equiped with outlets and the breakthrough in a
battery technology occurs.

> The PROBLEM in this is electrical demand.Can we say NUKES????? We are
> generating much of our electricity by OIL. Makes NO sense at all. But in
> 2012 GM *MIGHT* make the Chevy VOLT.
> (A really outdated design).

The anti-energy people have a problem with nukes. They have a problem
with everything including wind. They loved wind until it started to
work, now it's a bird killer, it's ugly, and so on. They'll turn on
electric cars the moment the breakthrough in battery techology gets to
the market. Soon after they will be concerned about the toxic battery
chemicals, manufacturing processes, bits of worn rubber from tires,
anything they can think of to continue their attack. It isn't about oil,
or the planet, or anything but simple power. Power to tell other people
how to live.

><sigh> Oh well - the American consumer will get it up the ass anyway.

Until the american people as a whole get a clue.

On 2009-06-08, <TedKennedyMurderedHisPregnantMistress.dwpj65@spam gourmet.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 6:36*am, "krp" > wrote:
>> "Scott in SoCal" > wrote in messagenews:jk4p25hnep7akvsu49d836vu4u295otnjs@4ax .com...
>>
>> > In message >, Brent
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> >>In three years GM will be profitable and the government can sell it off
>> >>just like Nixon promised with amtrack!
>>
>> > Nixon promised that?
>>
>> * * YEP. He promised to make Amtrak profitable in 2 years. *Just like the
>> Feds promise to have the Post Office turn a profit. Don't worry - they will
>> "FIX" your healthcare!
>
> Put the government in charge of the desert, and within 10 years you'll
> have a shortage of sand.
>
> Only idiots vote for more of government.

but (more) government promises to fix the problems that government
created in the first place. (prime example, healthcare, which got the
way it is because of the tax code, the great society programs, and
regulation)

<TedKennedyMurderedHisPregnantMistress.dwpj65@spam gourmet.com> wrote in
message
...
On Jun 8, 6:36 am, "krp" > wrote:
> "Scott in SoCal" > wrote in
> messagenews:jk4p25hnep7akvsu49d836vu4u295otnjs@4ax .com...
>
> > In message >, Brent
> > > wrote:
>
> >>In three years GM will be profitable and the government can sell it off
> >>just like Nixon promised with amtrack!
>
> > Nixon promised that?
>
> YEP. He promised to make Amtrak profitable in 2 years. Just like the
> Feds promise to have the Post Office turn a profit. Don't worry - they
> will
> "FIX" your healthcare!

TK> Put the government in charge of the desert, and within 10 years you'll
TK> have a shortage of sand.

` But many folks want them to manage our HEALTH CARE!!!

"Brent" > wrote in message
...

>>> In three years GM will be profitable and the government can sell it off
>>> just like Nixon promised with amtrack!

>> Yeah right. In 3 years there will be NO General Motors.

> GM will be with us so long as the dollar doesn't collapse and maybe even
> if it does. Government is a bottomless pit of money, it will either take
> it from people or have the fed print it (which is the same thing as the
> printing takes the money via inflation). GM and probably chrysler will
> form the amtrak of autos. Ford better be watching their back because GM
> was known for lobbying government for regulation to hurt its competition
> before (not that others didn't do it), now it is part of the government.

There will be NO American made cars within 5 years. UNLESS Penske can
fix Saturn. There is a 200% chance that GM won't last out 2 years. Chrysler
will be gone by the end of 2009 no matter how many TRILLIONS the government
throws at it. Given money to GM is like dropping that paper money onto a
raging forest fire in the imbecilic hope that it will put it out. Indeed GM
has been known to BRIBE public officials to screw its competition. Buses and
trolley cars. Tucker and the independents. GM and the MAFIA are cousins. The
only difference is that the Mafia won't tolerate MORONS within its
leadership. GM gives birth to them.

"Brent" > wrote in message
...
>
> Electrics themselves are mostly smoke and mirrors nonsense. The
> breakthrough in battery technology hasn't happened yet and the electric
> power doesn't come from zero point either. Even the japanese hybrids are
> silly when compared to their basic gasoline counterparts. Even at $4/gal
> gas they take the lifetime of the car to make back the additional
> purchase cost. (provided the battery pack isn't replaced)


No the battery is HERE. GM owns it and has it buried. It was developed when
GM had the previous EV. Exxon Mobil bought the company and BURIED it. It
will NEVER see the light of day. GM and Mobil are killing it.

"Brent" > wrote in message
...

>> Oh and the range of the cars? GM will
>> only allow a TEENY TINY battery with a range of 40 miles. There are
>> batteries that will give at least $150 miles.

> On what planet? the batteries for a 150 miles will weigh more the than
> rest of the aveo.

That is no longer true. While heavy - the power of the new packs are
only about a hudnred pounds. They can be made to slide in and out of gthe
rear of the car.


>> The car companies could get
>> together and build the cars with easily removable battery packs. On a
>> trip
>> you could pull in a service station, they could yank your battery pack,
>> and
>> replace it with a fully charged pack off the rack. Then recharge the pack
>> for a customer down the line.

> Really? You want to get someone's crappy battery pack in place of your
> good one? You get to the next exchange and they tell you your pack is
> crap and refuse to accept it and you're SOL. Lots of people do not take
> proper care of their cars and this system will help them at everyone
> else's expense.

No such thing as a "crappy energy pack." They'll all be essentially new
and must rate full charges.

In article >,
krp > wrote:
>
>No the battery is HERE. GM owns it and has it buried. It was developed when
>GM had the previous EV. Exxon Mobil bought the company and BURIED it. It
>will NEVER see the light of day. GM and Mobil are killing it.

The Ovonic battery isn't the breakthrough the conspiracy theorists
would like you to believe it is.
--
It's times like these which make me glad my bank is Dial-a-Mattress

On 2009-06-08, krp > wrote:
>
> "Brent" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>> In three years GM will be profitable and the government can sell it off
>>>> just like Nixon promised with amtrack!
>
>>> Yeah right. In 3 years there will be NO General Motors.
>
>> GM will be with us so long as the dollar doesn't collapse and maybe even
>> if it does. Government is a bottomless pit of money, it will either take
>> it from people or have the fed print it (which is the same thing as the
>> printing takes the money via inflation). GM and probably chrysler will
>> form the amtrak of autos. Ford better be watching their back because GM
>> was known for lobbying government for regulation to hurt its competition
>> before (not that others didn't do it), now it is part of the government.

> There will be NO American made cars within 5 years.

The import makes have factories in the US that will continue to function
until the US federal government forces them out of this market. Five
years is a pretty steep time line for that. The government might destroy
Ford in that time period however.

> UNLESS Penske can
> fix Saturn. There is a 200% chance that GM won't last out 2 years. Chrysler
> will be gone by the end of 2009 no matter how many TRILLIONS the government
> throws at it. Given money to GM is like dropping that paper money onto a
> raging forest fire in the imbecilic hope that it will put it out. Indeed GM
> has been known to BRIBE public officials to screw its competition. Buses and
> trolley cars. Tucker and the independents. GM and the MAFIA are cousins. The
> only difference is that the Mafia won't tolerate MORONS within its
> leadership. GM gives birth to them.

Government is fundamentally a mafia. If the stories about GM are just a
little true the government-GM alliance will leave us with only our
choice of politically approved GM cars.

On 2009-06-08, krp > wrote:
>
> "Brent" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Electrics themselves are mostly smoke and mirrors nonsense. The
>> breakthrough in battery technology hasn't happened yet and the electric
>> power doesn't come from zero point either. Even the japanese hybrids are
>> silly when compared to their basic gasoline counterparts. Even at $4/gal
>> gas they take the lifetime of the car to make back the additional
>> purchase cost. (provided the battery pack isn't replaced)
>
>
> No the battery is HERE. GM owns it and has it buried. It was developed when
> GM had the previous EV. Exxon Mobil bought the company and BURIED it. It
> will NEVER see the light of day. GM and Mobil are killing it.

sounds like BS to me. Automakers don't get along well with oil
companies and never have. It's a myth that they conspire together. It's
more like this:

Automakers: 'we want better fuels for our new engine technology' .
Oil companies: 'screw you, use what we make'.

the idea that they are working as a team to kill battery technology
seems absurd to me. Now, did exxon have thugs visit an inventor in the
middle of the night or buy up a company to kill or control a technology?
possibly. If GM bought a company for battery technology and it never
saw the light of day it's because: A) it didn't work. B) GM management
consists of a bunch of morons. GM has licensed various technology only
not use it while others who licensed it developed it and put it on the
market.