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  #11  
Old February 2nd 05, 06:11 PM
external usenet poster
 
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On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:45:58 -0600, Dave Henrie
> wrote:

> But...it does work DIFFERENTLY than what you may be used to. So if you
>buy a car that has a starter button instead of a key, do you take it back?
>
>dave henrie

Dave, if it was that simple do think you'd see all the posts here?
It's a flawed design that need to be fixed but won't because EA just
fired a ton of their developers because they paid huge sums to Nascar
and the NFL for exclusive rights to produce mediocre products. This
after they worked them to death. I won't buy another EA product.
Ads
  #12  
Old February 3rd 05, 12:51 AM
David G Fisher
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> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:45:58 -0600, Dave Henrie
> > wrote:
>
> > But...it does work DIFFERENTLY than what you may be used to. So if

you
> >buy a car that has a starter button instead of a key, do you take it

back?
> >
> >dave henrie

> Dave, if it was that simple do think you'd see all the posts here?



Because there are some people who think it has to be done the way papyrus
did it, or it's wrong. They don't bother to do a little exploration before
they start complaining.

Dave's right, there are far more options, and it's an all around better
controller setup system than anything papyrus ever gave us.


--
David G Fisher


  #13  
Old February 3rd 05, 01:15 AM
Tony Rickard
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"David G Fisher" wrote:

> Because there are some people who think it has to be done the way papyrus
> did it, or it's wrong. They don't bother to do a little exploration before
> they start complaining.
>
> Dave's right, there are far more options, and it's an all around better
> controller setup system than anything papyrus ever gave us.


As one who has tweaked and tweaked the ISI controller settings without
personal success I would take issue with that.

Also it relies on the Windows game controller settings rather than having
its own calibration routines which hasn't always suited.

Finally I did have an unusually complex controller setup at one point
(separate wheel, pedals and gear change on separate axes) which only the
papy system could cope with.

Of course it easy to forget that the linearity slider in GPL and NR series
was critical to feel and worked opposite ways or was fairly hidden, so it is
not all glory for Papy, but overall the system gets my vote as one that
works well on the majority of machines out of the box.

All IMHO of course!

Cheers
Tony


  #14  
Old February 3rd 05, 07:29 AM
Dave Henrie
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"Tony Rickard" > wrote in
k:

> "David G Fisher" wrote:
>
>> Because there are some people who think it has to be done the way
>> papyrus did it, or it's wrong. They don't bother to do a little
>> exploration before they start complaining.
>>
>> Dave's right, there are far more options, and it's an all around
>> better controller setup system than anything papyrus ever gave us.

>
> As one who has tweaked and tweaked the ISI controller settings without
> personal success I would take issue with that.
>
> Also it relies on the Windows game controller settings rather than
> having its own calibration routines which hasn't always suited.
>
> Finally I did have an unusually complex controller setup at one point
> (separate wheel, pedals and gear change on separate axes) which only
> the papy system could cope with.
>
> Of course it easy to forget that the linearity slider in GPL and NR
> series was critical to feel and worked opposite ways or was fairly
> hidden, so it is not all glory for Papy, but overall the system gets
> my vote as one that works well on the majority of machines out of the
> box.
>
> All IMHO of course!
>
> Cheers
> Tony
>
>
>


indeed, did not TSW users have to discover an extremely arcane product
called a ROCKFIRE convertor? Should they take GPL back because the sim
did not work at all with their hardware unless they had some product
hithero unknown to man except for here and the tsw support?
Don't some Soundblaster users, to this day, have problems with sound
issues, even tho SB is the worlds most common computer sound product.
Should they take back GPL, and all the Nx series?
ICR2, one of the world's first 3d racing sims, yet to get it to run in
3d, you had to have batch files and file swaps and all sorts of
headaches...should they have not bothered with that either?
Have not many 'high end' wheel users have had to resort to resoldering
the polarity of the their pots? Surely sims should recognize quality
wheels?
If you don't understand something, fine. But to smack-down something
just because it doesn't conform to your concept of perfect means just
about everything eventually would fail some criteria.
To this day I don't understand the delay settins in Papyrus controller
routines, despite many users attempts to explain testing methods via
driving over curbs etc.
I know also that GTR has some GAWD=Awful copy protection schemes. I
haven't paid attention to those discussions, but I know where to look for
them when GTR finally gets to Washington State.
I don't say ISI's controller routines are better than Papyrus, I do
say they function like they are supposed to and do provide more options
and possibilities. And I do race in a Papyrus online league...I don't
currently compete with ISI stuff.
dave henrie
  #15  
Old February 3rd 05, 09:31 PM
Tony Rickard
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"Dave Henrie" wrote:

> > "David G Fisher" wrote:

<snip>

> >> Dave's right, there are far more options, and it's an all around
> >> better controller setup system than anything papyrus ever gave us.


<snip>
> > Of course it easy to forget that the linearity slider in GPL and NR
> > series was critical to feel and worked opposite ways or was fairly
> > hidden, so it is not all glory for Papy, but overall the system gets
> > my vote as one that works well on the majority of machines out of the
> > box.


<snip>
> If you don't understand something, fine. But to smack-down something
> just because it doesn't conform to your concept of perfect means just
> about everything eventually would fail some criteria.


My response was to DGF's comment about the ISI controller being the best -
which it clearly is for him. My point was my own experience was the
opposite. Not quite sure where any "smack-down" took place but then as you
kindly point out I don't understand anyway...



  #16  
Old February 4th 05, 06:17 PM
Neil Charlton
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"Alan Le" > wrote in message
...
>> The problem is...the controller code DOES work correctly. It works
>> very well. ISI handles more axis, more buttons, more inputs and gives
>> you
>> dozens of options not even remotely available from Papyrus.
>> But...it does work DIFFERENTLY than what you may be used to. So if
>> you
>> buy a car that has a starter button instead of a key, do you take it
>> back?

>
> I never understood why people say Papyrus' controller setup is heads and
> tails above ISI's.

[snip]
> ISI's two controller limitation can be frustrating.
>
> Alan
>

This is exactly why Papy's is 'heads and tails' above ISI. Except .....

I have a momo force on ID1, Shifter on ID2 and BRD Speed7s on ID3 (all usb).
With XP, I can find no way of changing the ID # of the latter two. On the
F1C and NRS, it therefore means that my pedals are not recognised. With F1C
I could get round it by unplugging the shifter and using the momo paddles.
On NASCAR sims, I want to use the shifter but this means that I cannot use
my pedals in NSR. This is stupid - particularly so as GTR and rFactor allow
me to do this.

It appears from the demo that little if any development has happened since
F1C - we've even got a NASCAR sim without a solid rear axle. As a demo of a
piece of 2005 software, it's about as bad as I've seen. However, I'll wait
for reviews of the full package, particularly to look at the multiplayer,
but I'm not holding my breath.

Regards


  #17  
Old February 4th 05, 07:04 PM
Mitch_A
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Neil Charlton wrote:

>
> It appears from the demo that little if any development has happened since
> F1C - we've even got a NASCAR sim without a solid rear axle. As a demo of
> a piece of 2005 software, it's about as bad as I've seen. However, I'll
> wait for reviews of the full package, particularly to look at the
> multiplayer, but I'm not holding my breath.
>
> Regards


I feel the same way Neil. A very weak effort based on the demo. Ive not
seen many demos change much to the full release so Im not holding my breath
that this will be any different.

Aint no GTR

Mitch
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  #18  
Old February 4th 05, 07:20 PM
Larry
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You can have every option in the world but if you still can't get a good
feel out of it then it doesn't matter.

I've got dozens of hours on it and I _still_ can't get it right.

Hoping the final is better.

-Larry

"Dave Henrie" > wrote in message
. 97.136...
> Asgeir Nesoen > wrote in
> :
>
>> Exactly. How can you expect people to look up "controller +NSR2005"
>> when they just bought the same game for their hard earned money in
>> order to get it right?
>>
>> If I bought a car, and had to do a google search before I could get it
>> to behave properly, I would have demanded a refund, fer crying out
>> loud.
>>
>> ---A---
>>

> The problem is...the controller code DOES work correctly. It works
> very well. ISI handles more axis, more buttons, more inputs and gives you
> dozens of options not even remotely available from Papyrus.
> But...it does work DIFFERENTLY than what you may be used to. So if you
> buy a car that has a starter button instead of a key, do you take it back?
>
> dave henrie



  #19  
Old February 4th 05, 07:21 PM
Larry
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The Papy way worked It's not the fact that it's Papy. It's the fact
that they got it (mostly) right.

-Larry

"David G Fisher" > wrote in message
news
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:45:58 -0600, Dave Henrie
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > But...it does work DIFFERENTLY than what you may be used to. So if

> you
>> >buy a car that has a starter button instead of a key, do you take it

> back?
>> >
>> >dave henrie

>> Dave, if it was that simple do think you'd see all the posts here?

>
>
> Because there are some people who think it has to be done the way papyrus
> did it, or it's wrong. They don't bother to do a little exploration before
> they start complaining.
>
> Dave's right, there are far more options, and it's an all around better
> controller setup system than anything papyrus ever gave us.
>
>
> --
> David G Fisher
>
>



  #20  
Old February 5th 05, 12:19 AM
David G Fisher
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Which is why you and I are scrapping our MS wheels because they are not able
to be configured properly in a papy sim to work well on rc's.

MS wheel works just fine in an ISI sim. :-)
--
David G Fisher

"Larry" > wrote in message
news2PMd.54912$jn.26551@lakeread06...
> The Papy way worked It's not the fact that it's Papy. It's the fact
> that they got it (mostly) right.
>
> -Larry
>
> "David G Fisher" > wrote in message
> news
> >
> > > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:45:58 -0600, Dave Henrie
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> > But...it does work DIFFERENTLY than what you may be used to. So if

> > you
> >> >buy a car that has a starter button instead of a key, do you take it

> > back?
> >> >
> >> >dave henrie
> >> Dave, if it was that simple do think you'd see all the posts here?

> >
> >
> > Because there are some people who think it has to be done the way

papyrus
> > did it, or it's wrong. They don't bother to do a little exploration

before
> > they start complaining.
> >
> > Dave's right, there are far more options, and it's an all around better
> > controller setup system than anything papyrus ever gave us.
> >
> >
> > --
> > David G Fisher
> >
> >

>
>



 




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