Genuine Shop Manuals Standard Equipment on All Cars

mike gray > writes:

> Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> >> mike gray wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Show me a car over four years old without faulty computer systems....
> > It's funny how this myth lingers on.
>
> Just like the myth that the earth is a globe.

If I were in a pedantic mood, I'd point out it's not. Very close,
though.

> Just like the myth that operating systems can crash.

> What percentage of recalls are for computer problems?

Dunno -- but I sure hear of a lot more for mechanical problems.

> And how old is the computer on which you wrote yer reply?

I'd have to check -- but it's a 700 MHz Athlon, and the chip had just
come out when I bought it. Though this is about as relevant as
everything else you wrote except the question about percentage of
recalls.
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer

RustY© wrote:
>
> ...Rather, they would quote global instances of damage claims. We all know
> where the 'sue people' have their reservation though - don't we ?

And where the "utes" hangout.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

RustY© wrote:
>
> ...Rather, they would quote global instances of damage claims. We all know
> where the 'sue people' have their reservation though - don't we ?

And where the "utes" hangout.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> mike gray > writes:
>
>> Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>> >> mike gray wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Show me a car over four years old without faulty computer systems....
>> > It's funny how this myth lingers on.
>>
>> Just like the myth that the earth is a globe.
>
> If I were in a pedantic mood, I'd point out it's not. Very close,
> though.
>
>> Just like the myth that operating systems can crash.
>
>> What percentage of recalls are for computer problems?
>
> Dunno -- but I sure hear of a lot more for mechanical problems.
>
>> And how old is the computer on which you wrote yer reply?
>
> I'd have to check -- but it's a 700 MHz Athlon, and the chip had just
> come out when I bought it. Though this is about as relevant as
> everything else you wrote except the question about percentage of
> recalls.

And as relevant as the myth of computer infallibility.

If I were in a pedantic mood, I'd point out that it is not -34 degrees
here in SoFla, though my vehicle's computer sets the fuel mix there, nor
is the proper voltage 22, though that's what the ECU insists on
delivering to the battery.

Fortunately for most folks, the ECU can deliver all sorts of bogus data
with impunity. Until the morning ya switch it on and a voice says, "Good
morning. HAL here. Hope yer day has been a good one so far. . ."

Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> mike gray > writes:
>
>> Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>> >> mike gray wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Show me a car over four years old without faulty computer systems....
>> > It's funny how this myth lingers on.
>>
>> Just like the myth that the earth is a globe.
>
> If I were in a pedantic mood, I'd point out it's not. Very close,
> though.
>
>> Just like the myth that operating systems can crash.
>
>> What percentage of recalls are for computer problems?
>
> Dunno -- but I sure hear of a lot more for mechanical problems.
>
>> And how old is the computer on which you wrote yer reply?
>
> I'd have to check -- but it's a 700 MHz Athlon, and the chip had just
> come out when I bought it. Though this is about as relevant as
> everything else you wrote except the question about percentage of
> recalls.

And as relevant as the myth of computer infallibility.

If I were in a pedantic mood, I'd point out that it is not -34 degrees
here in SoFla, though my vehicle's computer sets the fuel mix there, nor
is the proper voltage 22, though that's what the ECU insists on
delivering to the battery.

Fortunately for most folks, the ECU can deliver all sorts of bogus data
with impunity. Until the morning ya switch it on and a voice says, "Good
morning. HAL here. Hope yer day has been a good one so far. . ."

Steve wrote:


> Exactly. ECMs very rarely fail, even the early ones like "Lean Burn"
> Chryslers from the 70s and HT4100 Cadillacs from the 80s. They're
> usually replaced because someone can't figure out what's REALLY wrong
> and blames that "stupid black box" that they can't understand. Or
> because someone fries the ECM doing improper diagnostics. Its usually a
> sensor, actuator, or wiring problem at the root of most "ECM" problems.

I agree that it's seldom the black box, most often the i/o stuff that
craps out. But the i/o stuff is part of the computer, there's a
gazillion sensors in modern cars, and failures are both common and
difficult to remedy.

The good news is that most failures are never noticed unless they
trigger a dash mounted warning light.

Steve wrote:


> Exactly. ECMs very rarely fail, even the early ones like "Lean Burn"
> Chryslers from the 70s and HT4100 Cadillacs from the 80s. They're
> usually replaced because someone can't figure out what's REALLY wrong
> and blames that "stupid black box" that they can't understand. Or
> because someone fries the ECM doing improper diagnostics. Its usually a
> sensor, actuator, or wiring problem at the root of most "ECM" problems.

I agree that it's seldom the black box, most often the i/o stuff that
craps out. But the i/o stuff is part of the computer, there's a
gazillion sensors in modern cars, and failures are both common and
difficult to remedy.

The good news is that most failures are never noticed unless they
trigger a dash mounted warning light.

mike gray wrote:

> Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>
>>> mike gray wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Show me a car over four years old without faulty computer systems....
>>
>>
>> It's funny how this myth lingers on.
>
>
> Just like the myth that the earth is a globe.
>
> Just like the myth that operating systems can crash.
>
> What percentage of recalls are for computer problems?

Almost none.


> And how old is the computer on which you wrote yer reply?

Three years, however, my two prior PCs lasted 8 and 7 years,
respectively, and were working fine when I gave both to my parents.
They used each another 7-8 years before trashing them as they couldn't
run the newer software. I've only had a couple of PCs have hardware
failures (one CD-ROM and one modem) in nearly 20 years of PC ownership.
And I've NEVER had a CPU fail.


Matt

mike gray wrote:

> Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>
>>> mike gray wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Show me a car over four years old without faulty computer systems....
>>
>>
>> It's funny how this myth lingers on.
>
>
> Just like the myth that the earth is a globe.
>
> Just like the myth that operating systems can crash.
>
> What percentage of recalls are for computer problems?

Almost none.


> And how old is the computer on which you wrote yer reply?

Three years, however, my two prior PCs lasted 8 and 7 years,
respectively, and were working fine when I gave both to my parents.
They used each another 7-8 years before trashing them as they couldn't
run the newer software. I've only had a couple of PCs have hardware
failures (one CD-ROM and one modem) in nearly 20 years of PC ownership.
And I've NEVER had a CPU fail.


Matt

mike gray wrote:

> Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>
>> mike gray > writes:
>>
>>> Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>> >> mike gray wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Show me a car over four years old without faulty computer
>>> systems....
>>> > It's funny how this myth lingers on.
>>>
>>> Just like the myth that the earth is a globe.
>>
>>
>> If I were in a pedantic mood, I'd point out it's not. Very close,
>> though.
>>
>>> Just like the myth that operating systems can crash.
>>
>>
>>> What percentage of recalls are for computer problems?
>>
>>
>> Dunno -- but I sure hear of a lot more for mechanical problems.
>>
>>> And how old is the computer on which you wrote yer reply?
>>
>>
>> I'd have to check -- but it's a 700 MHz Athlon, and the chip had just
>> come out when I bought it. Though this is about as relevant as
>> everything else you wrote except the question about percentage of
>> recalls.
>
>
> And as relevant as the myth of computer infallibility.

Nobody said computers were infallible, just not prone to a high rate of
failure as you assert.


> If I were in a pedantic mood, I'd point out that it is not -34 degrees
> here in SoFla, though my vehicle's computer sets the fuel mix there, nor
> is the proper voltage 22, though that's what the ECU insists on
> delivering to the battery.

One computer failure does not a trend establish.


> Fortunately for most folks, the ECU can deliver all sorts of bogus data
> with impunity. Until the morning ya switch it on and a voice says, "Good
> morning. HAL here. Hope yer day has been a good one so far. . ."

You really shouldn't stop taking your medication without your doctor's
approval.


Matt