engine noise

My 2002 A4 with 3 litre 6speed, has a troubling noise when started
cold. The engine makes a sound like worn or dry lifters. The clatter
is only for a second and then normal valve sound after that. The
dealer looked at it cold and said this is normal. I have had GM V6s'
with 200,000 kms on them that did not sound like this. Maybe Audi has
solid lifters and just is a noisy motor, but I don't think this is
normal.
Any suggestions?
pjm

In message >
(pjm) wrote:

> My 2002 A4 with 3 litre 6speed, has a troubling noise when started
> cold. The engine makes a sound like worn or dry lifters. The clatter
> is only for a second and then normal valve sound after that. The
> dealer looked at it cold and said this is normal. I have had GM V6s'
> with 200,000 kms on them that did not sound like this. Maybe Audi has
> solid lifters and just is a noisy motor, but I don't think this is
> normal.
> Any suggestions?

This is not because they are solid lifters, but because they are
self-adjusting hydraulic lifters. When the engine has been stopped for
a while, the oil drains out of the lifters. On restarting, it takes a
second for the oil pressure to build up and re-fill the lifters.

--
Peter Bell (Note Spamtrap - To reply, replace 'invalid' with 'bellfamily')

Nedavno Peter Bell pise:

| This is not because they are solid lifters, but because they are
| self-adjusting hydraulic lifters. When the engine has been stopped
| for a while, the oil drains out of the lifters. On restarting, it
| takes a second for the oil pressure to build up and re-fill the
| lifters.

I have '89 Audi 100, and one of hydraulic lifters makes a noise when I
start warm engine (for example after engine was stopped for few hours).
Can that do any damage to engine? Do I need to replace lifters
immediately?



--
___ ____
/__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 **
/ / \/ /\ \ ** http://counter.li.org/ **
/__/\____/--\__\ ** Reply at: ivica - at - ptt - dot - yu **

Yvan wrote:
> Nedavno Peter Bell pise:
>
> | This is not because they are solid lifters, but because they are
> | self-adjusting hydraulic lifters. When the engine has been stopped
> | for a while, the oil drains out of the lifters. On restarting, it
> | takes a second for the oil pressure to build up and re-fill the
> | lifters.
>
> I have '89 Audi 100, and one of hydraulic lifters makes a noise when I
> start warm engine (for example after engine was stopped for few hours).
> Can that do any damage to engine? Do I need to replace lifters
> immediately?
>
>
>
It's not too serious. Kind of depends on the car's value/condition. If
it's a runabout and you're not too bothered it will probably be ok- I
ran my Golf for a while with noisy lifters. If it's due a cambelt change
soon do it then, as it's not much extra work, or at least it wasn't on
the Golf, so if your 100 is a 4 cyl engine it shouldn't be.

Nedavno Chris Bartram pise:

| > I have '89 Audi 100, and one of hydraulic lifters makes a noise when
| > I start warm engine (for example after engine was stopped for few
| > hours). Can that do any damage to engine? Do I need to replace
| > lifters immediately?
| >
| It's not too serious. Kind of depends on the car's value/condition. If
| it's a runabout and you're not too bothered it will probably be ok- I
| ran my Golf for a while with noisy lifters. If it's due a cambelt
| change soon do it then, as it's not much extra work, or at least it
| wasn't on the Golf, so if your 100 is a 4 cyl engine it shouldn't be.

It's 5 cyl 2.3 NF engine. It does not bother me, I am just wondering if
that will not produce further damage.

I also have another (related?) problem. Recently when I start the cold
engine it immediately stalls (if I do not pres accelerator pedal hard).
It has trouble stabilizing - idle is ~750 rpm, and sometimes it goes
down to 700, then it goes up to ~900 and then back to ~750. It idles
then on ~750 and goes up and down 10 rpm (approximately). It is slow in
stabilizing with big oscillations in rpm. (I hope I explained that so
you can understand, English is not my native language).

I cleaned ISV with carburetor cleaner, and now I am thinking what to do
next. I am going to change spark-plugs. Perhaps O2 sensor?



--
___ ____
/__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 **
/ / \/ /\ \ ** http://counter.li.org/ **
/__/\____/--\__\ ** Reply at: ivica - at - ptt - dot - yu **

Yvan,
You used _THROTTLE BODY CLEANER_....right? Carburetor Cleaner is too
aggressive for the ISV and will dissolve the internal rubber seals - making
the ISV useless. If it has only 2 contacts at the plug, take it off the car
and try to blow through it, if you can, then it's time to replace it.
The oxygen sensor may need replacing if it is the original to the car - they
are cheap if you get one for a common 3-wired sensor (here in Canada, a Ford
will do) and you can splice the wiring harness yourself.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
"Yvan" > wrote in message
...
> Nedavno Chris Bartram pise:
>
> | > I have '89 Audi 100, and one of hydraulic lifters makes a noise when
> | > I start warm engine (for example after engine was stopped for few
> | > hours). Can that do any damage to engine? Do I need to replace
> | > lifters immediately?
> | >
> | It's not too serious. Kind of depends on the car's value/condition. If
> | it's a runabout and you're not too bothered it will probably be ok- I
> | ran my Golf for a while with noisy lifters. If it's due a cambelt
> | change soon do it then, as it's not much extra work, or at least it
> | wasn't on the Golf, so if your 100 is a 4 cyl engine it shouldn't be.
>
> It's 5 cyl 2.3 NF engine. It does not bother me, I am just wondering if
> that will not produce further damage.
>
> I also have another (related?) problem. Recently when I start the cold
> engine it immediately stalls (if I do not pres accelerator pedal hard).
> It has trouble stabilizing - idle is ~750 rpm, and sometimes it goes
> down to 700, then it goes up to ~900 and then back to ~750. It idles
> then on ~750 and goes up and down 10 rpm (approximately). It is slow in
> stabilizing with big oscillations in rpm. (I hope I explained that so
> you can understand, English is not my native language).
>
> I cleaned ISV with carburetor cleaner, and now I am thinking what to do
> next. I am going to change spark-plugs. Perhaps O2 sensor?
>
>
>
> --
> ___ ____
> /__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 **
> / / \/ /\ \ ** http://counter.li.org/ **
> /__/\____/--\__\ ** Reply at: ivica - at - ptt - dot - yu **

Check to see that the closed throttle switch on the throttle body is making
contact which activates the ISV. Use an ohm meter on the electrical contacts on
the plug on the top - back of the TB.

The 'lifter' noise that you hear on start-up is probably caused by loose or
broken exhaust manifold bolts on cylinder 3 - 5 and not lifters. Common on the
five cylinder engines. When the manifold heats up it expands and closes the leak
so it is quiet. Nothing to worry about.

Tony
'91 100q 5spd
(fourth T44)

Steve Sears wrote:

> Yvan,
> You used _THROTTLE BODY CLEANER_....right? Carburetor Cleaner is too
> aggressive for the ISV and will dissolve the internal rubber seals - making
> the ISV useless. If it has only 2 contacts at the plug, take it off the car
> and try to blow through it, if you can, then it's time to replace it.
> The oxygen sensor may need replacing if it is the original to the car - they
> are cheap if you get one for a common 3-wired sensor (here in Canada, a Ford
> will do) and you can splice the wiring harness yourself.
> Cheers!
> Steve Sears
> 1987 Audi 5kTQ
> 1980 Audi 5k
> 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
> (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
> "Yvan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Nedavno Chris Bartram pise:
>>
>>| > I have '89 Audi 100, and one of hydraulic lifters makes a noise when
>>| > I start warm engine (for example after engine was stopped for few
>>| > hours). Can that do any damage to engine? Do I need to replace
>>| > lifters immediately?
>>| >
>>| It's not too serious. Kind of depends on the car's value/condition. If
>>| it's a runabout and you're not too bothered it will probably be ok- I
>>| ran my Golf for a while with noisy lifters. If it's due a cambelt
>>| change soon do it then, as it's not much extra work, or at least it
>>| wasn't on the Golf, so if your 100 is a 4 cyl engine it shouldn't be.
>>
>>It's 5 cyl 2.3 NF engine. It does not bother me, I am just wondering if
>>that will not produce further damage.
>>
>>I also have another (related?) problem. Recently when I start the cold
>>engine it immediately stalls (if I do not pres accelerator pedal hard).
>>It has trouble stabilizing - idle is ~750 rpm, and sometimes it goes
>>down to 700, then it goes up to ~900 and then back to ~750. It idles
>>then on ~750 and goes up and down 10 rpm (approximately). It is slow in
>>stabilizing with big oscillations in rpm. (I hope I explained that so
>>you can understand, English is not my native language).
>>
>>I cleaned ISV with carburetor cleaner, and now I am thinking what to do
>>next. I am going to change spark-plugs. Perhaps O2 sensor?
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>> ___ ____
>> /__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 **
>> / / \/ /\ \ ** http://counter.li.org/ **
>> /__/\____/--\__\ ** Reply at: ivica - at - ptt - dot - yu **
>
>
>

Nedavno Steve Sears pise:

| Yvan,
| You used _THROTTLE BODY CLEANER_....right? Carburetor Cleaner is too
| aggressive for the ISV and will dissolve the internal rubber seals -
| making the ISV useless.

No, I used STP carburetor spray :-( I found some instructions:

http://20v.org/engprob.htm#isv
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/G.../faq.html#inj5

and few more.

| If it has only 2 contacts at the plug, take
| it off the car and try to blow through it, if you can, then it's time
| to replace it. The oxygen sensor may need replacing if it is the
| original to the car - they are cheap if you get one for a common
| 3-wired sensor (here in Canada, a Ford will do) and you can splice the
| wiring harness yourself. Cheers!

I'll try, thanks.




--
___ ____
/__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 **
/ / \/ /\ \ ** http://counter.li.org/ **
/__/\____/--\__\ ** Reply at: ivica - at - ptt - dot - yu **

Nedavno Tony pise:

| Check to see that the closed throttle switch on the throttle body is
| making contact which activates the ISV. Use an ohm meter on the
| electrical contacts on the plug on the top - back of the TB.

I'll do that.

| The 'lifter' noise that you hear on start-up is probably caused by
| loose or broken exhaust manifold bolts on cylinder 3 - 5 and not
| lifters. Common on the five cylinder engines. When the manifold heats
| up it expands and closes the leak so it is quiet. Nothing to worry
| about.

Sometimes ticking is loud, then it stops for a minute or two, than comes
back again. Until engine warms up. when it is lot quieter. It still
looks to me as a "lifter" noise (when I lean over the engine).


--
___ ____
/__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 **
/ / \/ /\ \ ** http://counter.li.org/ **
/__/\____/--\__\ ** Reply at: ivica - at - ptt - dot - yu **

If you are quite sure that lifters are the cause, The 5 cylinders are fairly
picky about their oil and filter. The oiling system operates at a high volume
compared to domestic cars so if you use a cheap filter from the parts store this
can be the result.

Go to bimmerparts.com and buy a German Mahle oil filter. Filter should be Mahle
or Mann are sold by Audi as OEM. Change your oil and replace filter with a good one.

Do not use Fram oil filter.

Even if it is lifters you don't need to worry about progressive engine damage,
just the annoyance of the sound.

Tony

Yvan wrote:
> Nedavno Tony pise:
> | The 'lifter' noise that you hear on start-up is probably caused by
> | loose or broken exhaust manifold bolts on cylinder 3 - 5 and not
> | lifters. Common on the five cylinder engines. When the manifold heats
> | up it expands and closes the leak so it is quiet. Nothing to worry
> | about.
>
> Sometimes ticking is loud, then it stops for a minute or two, than comes
> back again. Until engine warms up. when it is lot quieter. It still
> looks to me as a "lifter" noise (when I lean over the engine).
>
>