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Buying a new car



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 11th 05, 11:10 PM
Jerr
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<snip>
>
> Anyway, when I found out who he was, I asked him why I couldn't buy a car
> from a local dealer. He informed me that my offer was fair, that HE would
> have accepted it at his home dealership in California, but that some
> dealers
> (apparently all in the New England area) would not sell a car for such a
> small profit. So he CONFIRMED that car dealers are (on the whole) crooks
> who will not sell a car unless they can RIP YOU OFF. A car won't be sold
> at
> a "profit", it will only be sold if the dealership makes a killing.
>


Why are they ripping you off if they refuse "to make such a small profit"?
The owner of any business is entitled to sell his merchandise for whatever
price he wants to. If his price is higher than his competitors, he'll sell
less merchandise but that doesn't make him a 'ripoff artist'. A person
invests millions of dollars in a business, has a tremendous overhead and
decides for himself what the minimum profit is acceptable to him. You, as
the customer decide who gives you the better deal and value and purchase
from them.


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  #12  
Old March 11th 05, 11:36 PM
Skip Elliott Bowman
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"Dave C." > wrote in message
ink.net...
> >
>> You likely got a better deal than you would otherwise have gotten, but
>> if the dealer agreed to the deal, you didn't turn the tables on anyone.
>> The sales "hawks" don't care that they let a vehicle be sold for a
>> minimal profit, they want you out of there so they can spend their time
>> on the next guy.

>
> Actually, you are wrong on that. It depends on the dealer, but most
> dealers
> will NOT sell a vehicle at a "fair" or "minimal" profit. They would
> rather
> have the vehicle sit on the lot an extra day or two until some sucker pays
> them thousands of dollars more than what the vehicle is actually worth. I
> know this for a fact, as I was told this by a regional (car) sales
> manager.


<snipped for length>

What a mess--6 dealers! They must have a low volume of sales, or are just
plain greedy. You did the right thing walking away.

I thought about how I might have handled it different, and came up with
these questions:

* Did you discuss price before deciding on the car with the hawk?

* Did you say you were buying with cash?

* Did you tell them that you really wanted that particular car?

* When they took an hour to go over the deal, where were you--in the room or
cooling your heels in a waiting room?

If you get the chance, Dave would you post an answer to these questions? I
have an idea or two as to what happened, but want to get more facts first.


  #13  
Old March 12th 05, 12:25 AM
Dave C.
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> What a mess--6 dealers! They must have a low volume of sales, or are just
> plain greedy. You did the right thing walking away.
>
> I thought about how I might have handled it different, and came up with
> these questions:
>
> * Did you discuss price before deciding on the car with the hawk?
>
> * Did you say you were buying with cash?
>
> * Did you tell them that you really wanted that particular car?
>
> * When they took an hour to go over the deal, where were you--in the room

or
> cooling your heels in a waiting room?
>
> If you get the chance, Dave would you post an answer to these questions?

I
> have an idea or two as to what happened, but want to get more facts first.
>
>


Of course I didn't discuss price before deciding on the car . . . if I
hadn't decided on the car, what would we be discussing a price for?

Yes, I made it clear early on with all the dealers that I was paying CASH.
(well, personal check, but . . . )

Yes, I told all the dealers exactly which car I wanted. I didn't even
bother to talk to a salesperson before I verified that they had the exact
model/options/etc. on the lot for sale.

The dealer who wasted my time left me waiting for a while at the salesman's
desk. I almost walked out right before my offer was rejected and a
counter-offer made. I DID walk out immediately when I heard the
counter-offer.

I know I did everything right, as a regional sales manager CONFIRMED that I
did everything right. Bottom line, if you do your homework well, it is
practically impossible to buy a new car. Car dealers want NOTHING to do
with informed buyers. They'd rather sell a few cars at a *huge* profit than
even ONE at a small profit. -Dave





  #14  
Old March 12th 05, 12:35 AM
Dave C.
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>
> Why are they ripping you off if they refuse "to make such a small profit"?
> The owner of any business is entitled to sell his merchandise for whatever
> price he wants to. If his price is higher than his competitors, he'll sell
> less merchandise but that doesn't make him a 'ripoff artist'.


WHAT competitors? It is practically a monopoly. Choose any specific
make/model/options. Now go find one on a car lot. So far so good. Now
find ANOTHER IDENTICAL CAR on a different car lot. I happen to live in a
very densely populated area currently, so I have a few dealers to choose
from, if I want to waste a lot of fuel and time to shop around. Most areas
I've lived in, I'd be lucky to see two dealers with the car I'm interested
in within a 3 hour drive. The only competition is, you can buy brand X for
a ripoff price, or if you get ****ed off enough, you can buy brand Y at a
ripoff price from one of brand X's competitors. -Dave


  #15  
Old March 12th 05, 12:46 AM
Jerr
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"Dave C." > wrote in message
ink.net...
> >
>> Why are they ripping you off if they refuse "to make such a small
>> profit"?
>> The owner of any business is entitled to sell his merchandise for
>> whatever
>> price he wants to. If his price is higher than his competitors, he'll
>> sell
>> less merchandise but that doesn't make him a 'ripoff artist'.

>
> WHAT competitors? It is practically a monopoly. Choose any specific
> make/model/options. Now go find one on a car lot. So far so good. Now
> find ANOTHER IDENTICAL CAR on a different car lot. I happen to live in a
> very densely populated area currently, so I have a few dealers to choose
> from, if I want to waste a lot of fuel and time to shop around. Most
> areas
> I've lived in, I'd be lucky to see two dealers with the car I'm interested
> in within a 3 hour drive. The only competition is, you can buy brand X
> for
> a ripoff price, or if you get ****ed off enough, you can buy brand Y at a
> ripoff price from one of brand X's competitors. -Dave
>
>

Dealers swap cars. If they don't have the car you want they'll swap it in
from a dealer that does. That is if there's enough profit in it for them.
They might sell it cheaper if they have the car in stock but they are still
not going to 'give it away'.


  #16  
Old March 12th 05, 01:49 AM
Dave C.
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"Andrew White" > wrote in message
...
> "Dave C." > wrote:
>
> >So he CONFIRMED that car dealers are (on the whole) crooks
> >who will not sell a car unless they can RIP YOU OFF. A car won't be sold

at
> >a "profit", it will only be sold if the dealership makes a killing.

>
> Dave, do people frequently tell you that you're an idiot? Because you
> really are. The above statement is as dumb and ignorant as any pig
> farmer from the 1940's would utter. But it shouldn't come out of a
> mouth of a self-proclaimed educated consumer in the 21st century. It
> is really simple: the fact that you know the invoice, holdback,
> incentives and rebates on a particular model does NOT BY ANY MEANS
> mean that you know what the dealer's FULL COST is. You don't run their
> finances so you don't know how much they pay their employees, what the
> rent and utilities cost them, what their taxes are, and so on and so
> on. What YOU may consider a "fair profit" may actually put the dealer
> 5-10% in the red.
>


Are YOU going to claim that a dealer in California can sell a specific car
for a specific price that would put any New England area dealer 5-10% in the
red??? If anything, the exact opposite should be true, as real estate in
California is outrageously expensive, even compared to real estate in New
England, which isn't cheap.

What I posted was confirmed by a regional sales manager from California. If
you don't like it, it does no good to call me an idiot for posting the
truth, straight from the source. PROVE HIM WRONG. Your argument isn't with
me -Dave


  #17  
Old March 12th 05, 03:19 AM
Skip Elliott Bowman
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"Dave C." > wrote in message
ink.net...

I saw red flags on these points, Dave:

>> * Did you say you were buying with cash?


> Yes, I made it clear early on with all the dealers that I was paying CASH.
> (well, personal check, but . . . )


This ****es them off--it means they won't get extra on their commission by
selling you their money to buy your car. The way around this is when they
ask how you'll be paying for the car, put the brakes on that topic and say
you just want to talk about the car right now. Truth is, how you pay for
the car is none of their damn business, and they don't need to know at all
until you've agreed on a price.

>> * Did you tell them that you really wanted that particular car?


> Yes, I told all the dealers exactly which car I wanted. I didn't even
> bother to talk to a salesperson before I verified that they had the exact
> model/options/etc. on the lot for sale.


This ****es them off and helps them at the same time--they have to feel like
they have sold you a particular car. If you let them know that you want a
specific car up front, then they relax--all they have to do at that point is
wait you out. The way around this is, even if you see your car over there,
stay over here and mosey over there in your own sweet time, checking out a
few cars before and after. As far as you're concerned to them, a car is a
car--basic transportation. They don't need to know your dream car is
sitting right over there.

>> * When they took an hour to go over the deal, where were you--in the room

> or
>> cooling your heels in a waiting room?


> The dealer who wasted my time left me waiting for a while at the
> salesman's
> desk. I almost walked out right before my offer was rejected and a
> counter-offer made. I DID walk out immediately when I heard the
> counter-offer.


Oldest trick in the book. They "take the offer to their manager in the
back", but what they really do is go to the break room and watch the game
for a while. The manager never sees them unless he's watching the game too.
The way around this is, when he stands up to say he'll take the offer to his
boss, look him dead in the eye and say, "I'll wait 3 minutes for his answer
and then I'm leaving." Plain and simple. Then hit the timer on your watch
or note the time out loud. If he calls your bluff, then walk out. I'll bet
you tonight's gig money he'll chase you down.

NEVER tell the you are definitely buying a car today. They have to make (or
accept) an offer they can't refuse. If they balk, you can say, "Geez, I
just thought I would buy a car today. Why won't you let me buy a car?" For
some reason, that cools their jets right away.

In other words, take their own strength and tools to use against them.

> I know I did everything right, as a regional sales manager CONFIRMED that
> I
> did everything right.


Well, remember whose side he's on

Bottom line, if you do your homework well, it is
> practically impossible to buy a new car. Car dealers want NOTHING to do
> with informed buyers. They'd rather sell a few cars at a *huge* profit
> than
> even ONE at a small profit. -Dave


It's all good. But you can get 'em next time--and there will be a next
time...


  #18  
Old March 12th 05, 03:50 AM
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"Dave C." > wrote in message
ink.net...

> Actually, you are wrong on that. It depends on the dealer, but most

dealers
> will NOT sell a vehicle at a "fair" or "minimal" profit. They would

rather
> have the vehicle sit on the lot an extra day or two until some sucker

pays

I'm not wrong for California, I can't speak for other areas.

It depends on the car. When the dealer has an essentially unlimited
supply of a specific model, which is the case except for a very few
models, they don't have to save a car for the next guy, they have
another one to sell him tomorrow.

You're not going to get a good deal on Prius or an Odyssey, but you can
easily get one on a Camry or Accord. I'd be willing to wager that the
Camry and Accord have some of the greatest differences between what
different people pay for the identical vehicle.

But maybe this is only how it works in California, I have not bought a
car outside of California since 1979.

Everyone wants to believe that they got an incredible deal on a car,
and some get better deals than others, but it's the dealer that chooses
whether or not to agree to the price you offer.

The funniest thing to me is when I hear people swear that they must
have gotten a great deal because they paid x amount of dollars over or
under invoice. Anytime they reference "invoice" I know that they most
likely got taken to the cleaners.

  #19  
Old March 12th 05, 03:53 AM
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Good questions.

I know that a lot of people mistakenly believe that the dealer is
thrilled to have cash buyers, and will lower the price based on this,
when exactly the opposite is true.

NEVER tell the dealer that you will be paying cash. Inquire about
financing. Inquire about the extended warranty, inquire about
undercoating, etc.

  #20  
Old March 12th 05, 04:07 AM
Jerr
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> What I posted was confirmed by a regional sales manager from California.
> If
> you don't like it, it does no good to call me an idiot for posting the
> truth, straight from the source. PROVE HIM WRONG. Your argument isn't
> with
> me -Dave
>
>


You claimed that a 'regional sales manager' from the west coast would have
sold you the car for less. First of all, if he was a regional sales manager,
he has nothing to do with retail sales. His sales are from the manufacturer
to the dealer. He works for the manufacturer, not a dealer. Cars cost the
same in California as they do in New York. The individual overhead differs
from region to region and dealer to dealer. Ergo, you might find a dealer
that can work on a smaller markup. But don't condemn the other dealers for
wanting to make a profit. Right now if you wanted to buy a dealership,
you're talking in the multi-millions. Would you want to invest that kind of
money to make $50 on a $20000 car?


 




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