oil pressure gauge question

Damn... next you're going to tell me I should check the oil level
occasionally.... They put that friggin' dipstick in there and now everyone
expects me to use it??? BLASPHEMY!!!!

The engineers have told us that there are certain things that *should* be
done to ensure that we extract the maximum troublefree miles from our cars.
There are things that the engineers tell us we *shouldn't* do if we expect
to get as many troublefree miles from our cars as we'd like....... Time and
time again, accountants, computer wienies and university grads (would you
like fries with that?) are consistent in their efforts to re-invent the
wheel.... trying hard to vary from tried and true practice and, somewhere
along the line, falling far short of their desires.

Most premature catastrophic failures are the result of operator inattention
or poor maintenance practice. The modern auto is one of the few places we
can save money be spending it.... we just have to spend it soon enough....


"Anthony Giorgianni" >
wrote in message
...
> You sure, Fred? I thought the voltmeter was real, at least on my 92.
>
> I've actually interviewed Ford engineers and asked about the oil pressure
> thing, which is the same on virtually all Fords.. The pressure fluctuates
> so
> much, they say, it really doesn't tell you anything. At least one regular
> here who installed a real oil pressure gauge says he wouldn't bother doing
> it again. I wouldn't worry about having a real gauge... your Explorer will
> break down altogether soon enough, with or without an oil pressure gauge
> :O)
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Anthony Giorgianni
>
> The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting
> back
> to the newsgroup.
> "Fred W" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Voltmeter - yes. Same deal.
>> Water temp - Not exactly. AFAIR the water temp shows a "buffered"
>> version of an actual temperature reading.
>> You will notice that it actually does ramp up slowly as the engine
>> warms. But once the temperature is within a "normal" range the needle
>> will stay straight up. It will then have to seriously overheat or cool
>> way down before the needle moves from the complete vertical.
>>
>> They say the idea (with all of these gauges) was to prevent people from
>> worrying about (and especially from requesting warranty service) for
>> "normal" fluctuations. I'm surprised they did not consider doing the
>> same with the speedometer? <g>
>>
>> -Fred W
>
>

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:37:10 -0500, Fred W
> wrote:

>Bill Jeffrey wrote:
>> Many thanks, Fred, I appreciate the pointer. I think the same
>> bamboozling is going on with the voltmeter and water temp gauge, too.
>> They never seem to vary from a fixed position. Say, doesn't Ford charge
>> extra for the optional "gauge package"?
>>
>
>Voltmeter - yes. Same deal.

No ,the voltmeter is real.
It *does* move.
>Water temp - Not exactly. AFAIR the water temp shows a "buffered"
>version of an actual temperature reading.
>You will notice that it actually does ramp up slowly as the engine
>warms. But once the temperature is within a "normal" range the needle
>will stay straight up. It will then have to seriously overheat or cool
>way down before the needle moves from the complete vertical.
>
>They say the idea (with all of these gauges) was to prevent people from
>worrying about (and especially from requesting warranty service) for
>"normal" fluctuations. I'm surprised they did not consider doing the
>same with the speedometer? <g>
>
>-Fred W

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 23:21:23 -0700, Big Bill > wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:37:10 -0500, Fred W
> wrote:
>
>>Bill Jeffrey wrote:
>>> Many thanks, Fred, I appreciate the pointer. I think the same
>>> bamboozling is going on with the voltmeter and water temp gauge, too.
>>> They never seem to vary from a fixed position. Say, doesn't Ford charge
>>> extra for the optional "gauge package"?
>>>
>>
>>Voltmeter - yes. Same deal.
>
>No ,the voltmeter is real.
>It *does* move.

If you are talking about explorers I have no data, but I know the late
model mustangs have a phony voltmeter and oil pressure gauge, and a
half phony water temp gauge. Neither show anything but dead center no
mater what the actual reading once its higher then some very low
trigger level. As the other poster said, the water temp is a real
gauge till it hits 90C, then it stops moving even if the temp goes to
102C. That's the highest mines ever gone. Presumably it will spike
up at some very high temp, my guess would be at around 120C. Even
when cranking the starter the voltmeter stays rock steady at mid
scale.


>>Water temp - Not exactly. AFAIR the water temp shows a "buffered"
>>version of an actual temperature reading.
>>You will notice that it actually does ramp up slowly as the engine
>>warms. But once the temperature is within a "normal" range the needle
>>will stay straight up. It will then have to seriously overheat or cool
>>way down before the needle moves from the complete vertical.
>>
>>They say the idea (with all of these gauges) was to prevent people from
>>worrying about (and especially from requesting warranty service) for
>>"normal" fluctuations. I'm surprised they did not consider doing the
>>same with the speedometer? <g>
>>
>>-Fred W

--
Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the
establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . .
Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of
the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order
to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House
of Representatives, August 17, 1789

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:03:45 -0700, AZGuy > wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 23:21:23 -0700, Big Bill > wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:37:10 -0500, Fred W
> wrote:
>>
>>>Bill Jeffrey wrote:
>>>> Many thanks, Fred, I appreciate the pointer. I think the same
>>>> bamboozling is going on with the voltmeter and water temp gauge, too.
>>>> They never seem to vary from a fixed position. Say, doesn't Ford charge
>>>> extra for the optional "gauge package"?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Voltmeter - yes. Same deal.
>>
>>No ,the voltmeter is real.
>>It *does* move.
>
>If you are talking about explorers I have no data, but I know the late
>model mustangs have a phony voltmeter and oil pressure gauge, and a
>half phony water temp gauge. Neither show anything but dead center no
>mater what the actual reading once its higher then some very low
>trigger level. As the other poster said, the water temp is a real
>gauge till it hits 90C, then it stops moving even if the temp goes to
>102C. That's the highest mines ever gone. Presumably it will spike
>up at some very high temp, my guess would be at around 120C. Even
>when cranking the starter the voltmeter stays rock steady at mid
>scale.

If so, this is the first time I've ever heard of that.
Our Explorer is a 92, hardly new. But the Expeditiuon is a 99, and the
gauges are all real except the oil pressure. I have never seen any
posts to any groups or newsletters saying the newer ones are
different.
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 08:42:47 -0700, Big Bill > wrote:

>On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:03:45 -0700, AZGuy > wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 23:21:23 -0700, Big Bill > wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:37:10 -0500, Fred W
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bill Jeffrey wrote:
>>>>> Many thanks, Fred, I appreciate the pointer. I think the same
>>>>> bamboozling is going on with the voltmeter and water temp gauge, too.
>>>>> They never seem to vary from a fixed position. Say, doesn't Ford charge
>>>>> extra for the optional "gauge package"?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Voltmeter - yes. Same deal.
>>>
>>>No ,the voltmeter is real.
>>>It *does* move.
>>
>>If you are talking about explorers I have no data, but I know the late
>>model mustangs have a phony voltmeter and oil pressure gauge, and a
>>half phony water temp gauge. Neither show anything but dead center no
>>mater what the actual reading once its higher then some very low
>>trigger level. As the other poster said, the water temp is a real
>>gauge till it hits 90C, then it stops moving even if the temp goes to
>>102C. That's the highest mines ever gone. Presumably it will spike
>>up at some very high temp, my guess would be at around 120C. Even
>>when cranking the starter the voltmeter stays rock steady at mid
>>scale.
>
>If so, this is the first time I've ever heard of that.
>Our Explorer is a 92, hardly new. But the Expeditiuon is a 99, and the
>gauges are all real except the oil pressure. I have never seen any
>posts to any groups or newsletters saying the newer ones are
>different.

I think it depends on which models have the electronic dash. The
Mustangs got it in 99 but I don't think the Exp did till later, if
ever. The dash looks "analog" but it's really a digital dash driving
analog gauges. My guess is it's cheaper to use gauges then digital
readouts. You can put these digital dashs in "diagnostic" mode and
then the trip odometer digital display shows the actual "gauge"
values. Many of them appear to have a digital range of 0 to 255 which
I believe is an 8 bit (or byte) digital resolution (I'm not stating it
well). From what little I've read, the dash is even tied into the
computer in such a way that it would be hard to swap a dash from one
vehicle to the other without having the ford computer system to hook
it too and reset it's parameters,i.e. a V6 dash into a V8 car, or an
ABS dash into a non-ABS car.
--
Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the
establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . .
Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of
the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order
to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House
of Representatives, August 17, 1789

Big Bill wrote:
>
> On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:03:45 -0700, AZGuy > wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 23:21:23 -0700, Big Bill > wrote:
> >
> >>On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:37:10 -0500, Fred W
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>Bill Jeffrey wrote:
> >>>> Many thanks, Fred, I appreciate the pointer. I think the same
> >>>> bamboozling is going on with the voltmeter and water temp gauge, too.
> >>>> They never seem to vary from a fixed position. Say, doesn't Ford charge
> >>>> extra for the optional "gauge package"?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Voltmeter - yes. Same deal.
> >>
> >>No ,the voltmeter is real.
> >>It *does* move.
> >
> >If you are talking about explorers I have no data, but I know the late
> >model mustangs have a phony voltmeter and oil pressure gauge, and a
> >half phony water temp gauge. Neither show anything but dead center no
> >mater what the actual reading once its higher then some very low
> >trigger level. As the other poster said, the water temp is a real
> >gauge till it hits 90C, then it stops moving even if the temp goes to
> >102C. That's the highest mines ever gone. Presumably it will spike
> >up at some very high temp, my guess would be at around 120C. Even
> >when cranking the starter the voltmeter stays rock steady at mid
> >scale.
>
> If so, this is the first time I've ever heard of that.
> Our Explorer is a 92, hardly new. But the Expeditiuon is a 99, and the
> gauges are all real except the oil pressure. I have never seen any
> posts to any groups or newsletters saying the newer ones are
> different.

I pretty sure all the gaugues in my '03 Expedition are
basically "go" / "no go" gauges and not true analog gauges.
The temperature gauge does ramp up till it hits mid scale,
but then it never moves. Likewise the oil and battery gauges
seem glued in place once the truck is running. This is
defeinitely a change from my '97 Expedition where only the
oil pressure gauge was a 2 poition gauge.

I think many of the people who get upset about the two
position gauges don't realize how crappy the old electrical
analog gauges were. I have a Dodge truck that came with an
electrical analog oil pressure gauge. The damn thing scared
the crap out of me all the time. I finally installed a
aftermarket gauge (analog non-electrical) and discovered
there was not a problem. The battery and water temperature
gauges in my 1992 F150 move all over the place all the time.
However, they are not calibrated, and as far as I can tell
they are almost meaningless unless they go full scale one
way or the other. A gauge that is not calibrated is no
better than a go / no go gauge. By the way, as far as I can
tell, the water temperature gauge in my 2003 Saturn is
positioned by the PCM and is not actually displaying the
actual water temperature. When you start the car it moves
off "C" to the same place everytime and then slowly moves up
to the exact same "normal" place everytime no matter what
time of year or what you are actually doing.

Ed

C. E. White > wrote:
[snip]

> way or the other. A gauge that is not calibrated is no
> better than a go / no go gauge. By the way, as far as I can

Perhaps if you only want to use the gauge to get the actual water temp,
voltage, etc., that would be true.

However, even a non-calibrated analog gauge is quite useful if you take
note of its normal characteristics. When the gauge shows a change from
how it usually behaves, that can be very helpful in alerting you that
something has happened and should be investigated. These changes can
be subtle and not severe enough to activate a go/no-go idiot light or
one of the so-called 'idiot gauges' under discussion.

My 1993 Aerostar has a non-calibrated temperature gauge and non-calibrated
voltmeter (neither of which is an 'idiot gauge'). I have used both of
these gauges to correctly diagnose the need to fix cooling system and
charging system problems before they became hard failures.

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:44:00 -0500, "C. E. White"
> wrote:

>I pretty sure all the gaugues in my '03 Expedition are
>basically "go" / "no go" gauges and not true analog gauges.
>The temperature gauge does ramp up till it hits mid scale,
>but then it never moves. Likewise the oil and battery gauges
>seem glued in place once the truck is running. This is
>defeinitely a change from my '97 Expedition where only the
>oil pressure gauge was a 2 poition gauge.
>
>I think many of the people who get upset about the two
>position gauges don't realize how crappy the old electrical
>analog gauges were. I have a Dodge truck that came with an
>electrical analog oil pressure gauge. The damn thing scared
>the crap out of me all the time. I finally installed a
>aftermarket gauge (analog non-electrical) and discovered
>there was not a problem. The battery and water temperature
>gauges in my 1992 F150 move all over the place all the time.
>However, they are not calibrated, and as far as I can tell
>they are almost meaningless unless they go full scale one
>way or the other. A gauge that is not calibrated is no
>better than a go / no go gauge. By the way, as far as I can
>tell, the water temperature gauge in my 2003 Saturn is
>positioned by the PCM and is not actually displaying the
>actual water temperature. When you start the car it moves
>off "C" to the same place everytime and then slowly moves up
>to the exact same "normal" place everytime no matter what
>time of year or what you are actually doing.
>
>Ed

Maybe so; mine is a 99.
But I haven't seen anything about this even on the Expedition Digest.
On my Expedition, the voltmeter and water temp gauges don't move much,
but that's because the systems are working in good order. When idling
at night, with lights on, the turn signals will cause the voltmeter to
fluctuate, and the power windows do too. So I seriously doubt that's a
go/no go gauge.
As for water temp gauge, the Expedition has never had a coolling
'misadventure', so the needle stays put after warmup.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

Big Bill wrote:

> Maybe so; mine is a 99.
> But I haven't seen anything about this even on the Expedition Digest.
> On my Expedition, the voltmeter and water temp gauges don't move much,
> but that's because the systems are working in good order. When idling
> at night, with lights on, the turn signals will cause the voltmeter to
> fluctuate, and the power windows do too. So I seriously doubt that's a
> go/no go gauge.
> As for water temp gauge, the Expedition has never had a coolling
> 'misadventure', so the needle stays put after warmup.

For sure the Voltmeter and Water Temperature gauges on my
1997 Expedition were true analog gauges that moved in
response to changes in the system being monitored. But for
my 2003, they don't seem to be. And for the 2003, the wiring
diagram indicates they are driven by the PCM, so I am
reasonably confident they are now good / bad indicators.

Ed