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Flushing cooling system on GMC Savanna.........



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 1st 06, 02:23 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Flushing cooling system on GMC Savanna.........

Ok...same 99 Gmc Savanna 5.7l as usual...now I just finished changing the
intake manifold gaskets, and I figure I'll scab up enough tonight to
undertake the coolant flushing tomorrow...Question is a friend suggested
vinegar as a flushing agent...Any pro's or cons will be appreciated...I
just planned on filling with water getting to temp...draining a few
times...thanks in advance ...
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  #2  
Old April 1st 06, 02:26 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Flushing cooling system on GMC Savanna.........


"Peter Griffin" > wrote in message
...
> Ok...same 99 Gmc Savanna 5.7l as usual...now I just finished changing the
> intake manifold gaskets, and I figure I'll scab up enough tonight to
> undertake the coolant flushing tomorrow...Question is a friend suggested
> vinegar as a flushing agent...Any pro's or cons will be appreciated...I
> just planned on filling with water getting to temp...draining a few
> times...thanks in advance ...


I wouldn't waste my time with vinegar. It isn't acidic enough to really
do any good with respect to any iron oxide that may be in the system...
at least over the short term. And if you dont get it completely washed
out, it could offset some of the corrosion protection you might expect
from your coolant corrosion inhibitor package.

The idea isn't totally off base, just too weak to be effective.


  #4  
Old April 1st 06, 03:36 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Flushing cooling system on GMC Savanna.........


"Peter Griffin" > wrote in message
.. .
> On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 13:26:21 GMT, wrote:
>
> > "Peter Griffin" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Ok...same 99 Gmc Savanna 5.7l as usual...now I just finished changing

the
> >> intake manifold gaskets, and I figure I'll scab up enough tonight to
> >> undertake the coolant flushing tomorrow...Question is a friend

suggested
> >> vinegar as a flushing agent...Any pro's or cons will be appreciated...I
> >> just planned on filling with water getting to temp...draining a few
> >> times...thanks in advance ...

> >
> > I wouldn't waste my time with vinegar. It isn't acidic enough to really
> > do any good with respect to any iron oxide that may be in the system...
> > at least over the short term. And if you dont get it completely washed
> > out, it could offset some of the corrosion protection you might expect
> > from your coolant corrosion inhibitor package.
> >
> > The idea isn't totally off base, just too weak to be effective.

>
> not do concerned with the corrosion, more about the dex cool coolant

mixing
> with the residule in block


The reason you have products like DexCool and other prepared coolant
formulations is to offset corrosion in the block and radiator.....ordinary
ethylene glycol or propylene glycol work perfectly well as antifreezes
and coolants without any sort of proprietary chemical additives.

I am not sure that that fact has been stated often or is clearly understood.

Yes, you want to get the block and radiator as clean as possible, and a
thorough water flush is about as good as you can do it. The vinegar is
not really going to help you.

And if you drop the pH of the OAT DexCool, you will convert the organic
salts (which are extremely water soluble) into organic acids. These acids
are not very soluble, and will scum out in the block and radiator.

When I do this job, I normally remove the thermostat, and flush repeatedly
through the block and through the radiator until everything runs clean.
(and replace the thermostat with a new one when I am finished.)

Your vehicle is now approaching 6-7 years old. If you have not replaced
hoses before, this could be a good time to do it. It is hard to predict
when
they are likely to fail, but 5 years, 100,000 miles, is certainly getting
into the
zone where a replacement wouldnt hurt.


  #5  
Old April 1st 06, 03:50 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Flushing cooling system on GMC Savanna.........

On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 14:36:22 GMT, wrote:

> "Peter Griffin" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 13:26:21 GMT,
wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Griffin" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Ok...same 99 Gmc Savanna 5.7l as usual...now I just finished changing

> the
>>>> intake manifold gaskets, and I figure I'll scab up enough tonight to
>>>> undertake the coolant flushing tomorrow...Question is a friend

> suggested
>>>> vinegar as a flushing agent...Any pro's or cons will be appreciated...I
>>>> just planned on filling with water getting to temp...draining a few
>>>> times...thanks in advance ...
>>>
>>> I wouldn't waste my time with vinegar. It isn't acidic enough to really
>>> do any good with respect to any iron oxide that may be in the system...
>>> at least over the short term. And if you dont get it completely washed
>>> out, it could offset some of the corrosion protection you might expect
>>> from your coolant corrosion inhibitor package.
>>>
>>> The idea isn't totally off base, just too weak to be effective.

>>
>> not do concerned with the corrosion, more about the dex cool coolant

> mixing
>> with the residule in block

>
> The reason you have products like DexCool and other prepared coolant
> formulations is to offset corrosion in the block and radiator.....ordinary
> ethylene glycol or propylene glycol work perfectly well as antifreezes
> and coolants without any sort of proprietary chemical additives.
>
> I am not sure that that fact has been stated often or is clearly understood.
>
> Yes, you want to get the block and radiator as clean as possible, and a
> thorough water flush is about as good as you can do it. The vinegar is
> not really going to help you.
>
> And if you drop the pH of the OAT DexCool, you will convert the organic
> salts (which are extremely water soluble) into organic acids. These acids
> are not very soluble, and will scum out in the block and radiator.
>
> When I do this job, I normally remove the thermostat, and flush repeatedly
> through the block and through the radiator until everything runs clean.
> (and replace the thermostat with a new one when I am finished.)
>
> Your vehicle is now approaching 6-7 years old. If you have not replaced
> hoses before, this could be a good time to do it. It is hard to predict
> when
> they are likely to fail, but 5 years, 100,000 miles, is certainly getting
> into the
> zone where a replacement wouldnt hurt.


While doing the intake gasket set, I also did the serpentine belt, and
inspected/cleanes everything...The hoses seemed fine, but The thermostat is
a good idea, somehow I overlooked it, probably too concerned with labeling
all plugs/bolts, and cleaning up all the blood from scrapes....should of
just yanked the engine/trans instead of doing the intake in the van
also noticed upper rad hose is seaping now....think it is the disposable
clamps they use now..........
  #6  
Old April 1st 06, 04:04 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Flushing cooling system on GMC Savanna.........


"Peter Griffin" > wrote in message
> While doing the intake gasket set, I also did the serpentine belt, and
> inspected/cleanes everything...The hoses seemed fine, but The thermostat

is
> a good idea, somehow I overlooked it, probably too concerned with labeling
> all plugs/bolts, and cleaning up all the blood from scrapes....should of
> just yanked the engine/trans instead of doing the intake in the van
> also noticed upper rad hose is seaping now....think it is the disposable
> clamps they use now..........


I know what you mean about scraped knuckles.

Removing the thermostat allows you to flush the block thoroughly,
whereas you may have an impossible time to do it otherwise.

Lots of people here use only the spring clamps which often come as OEM.
They work fine, usually, and are certainly preferred to low quality screw
clamps. I also use high quality screw clamps and don't have any particular
trouble.


  #7  
Old April 1st 06, 04:09 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Flushing cooling system on GMC Savanna.........


"Peter Griffin" > wrote in message
...
> Ok...same 99 Gmc Savanna 5.7l as usual...now I just finished changing the
> intake manifold gaskets, and I figure I'll scab up enough tonight to
> undertake the coolant flushing tomorrow...Question is a friend suggested
> vinegar as a flushing agent...Any pro's or cons will be appreciated...I
> just planned on filling with water getting to temp...draining a few
> times...thanks in advance ...


Here is how I did my last coolant flush,

1) Opened radiator drain petcock fully
2) Disconnected one of the heater hoses going to the heater
core at the firewall
3) Opened radiator cap.
4) Waited until all coolant drained.
5) Inserted garden hose to overflow bottle cap and held
hand around hose and cap, turned on water half pressure until
clear water running from overflow host to radiator.
5) Inserted garden host to rad cap and wrapped a rag around
the area, held rag on with hand.
6) Turned on garden hose full until water running from petcock,
heater, host to heater was running clear, about 5 minutes.
7) let system drain.
8) closed everything up, poured in full bottle of antifreeze, not
diluted.
9) Filed remaining with 50/50 antifreeze and water. Ran car and
topped off when it burped, then drove car and over the next
few days using a antifreeze tester, added antifreeze and mixture
until cooling system completely full.

Ted


  #8  
Old April 1st 06, 05:41 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Flushing cooling system on GMC Savanna.........


"NickySantoro" > wrote in message
> A GM powertrain engineer who used to post on a Caddy board cautioned
> that flushing is not necessary unless you have a clog of some sort.
> His suggestion was to just drain the rad and refill with 50% distilled
> water and 50% coolant, in this case probably Dexcool. The idea is not
> to introduce tap water with it's mineral content into the system.
> FWIW
> YMMV


Depends. I wince at generalizations like the one the PTE has made.

If you have a lot of iron oxide (rust) in the system, then I believe
it is best to wash it out. Iron oxide is a powerful adsorber of polar
chemicals
such as are in the antifreeze packages. The result can be a puttylike mess.

Deposits, including iron oxide, on metal surfaces can be a prime cause of
corrosion. And guess where the corrosion occurs...that's right, just where
you wouldn't expect...it occurs UNDER the deposits. (I'm sure you've seen
rusty tubercles form in iron systems exposed to water. Deposits can be a
cause of this.)

If you live in an area where tap water is mineral laden, you might want to
spend a buck or two a gallon to buy distilled water. It wont break you.
We've discussed this before. Especially if you are using a silicate bearing
coolant, it is best if the makeup water is rather pure.

In addition, the potential corrosion rate in water systems is related to the
conductivity of the water, among other things. The more conductive (due
to minerals) usually the more corrosive it is.

Where I live, the water comes from lakes and is not heavy in minerals.
(or at least, it wasn't until the state changed the treatment program a
short
while ago).



  #9  
Old April 4th 06, 03:59 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Posts: n/a
Default Flushing cooling system on GMC Savanna.........


"NickySantoro" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:23:01 -0500, Peter Griffin
> > wrote:
>
> >Ok...same 99 Gmc Savanna 5.7l as usual...now I just finished changing the
> >intake manifold gaskets, and I figure I'll scab up enough tonight to
> >undertake the coolant flushing tomorrow...Question is a friend suggested
> >vinegar as a flushing agent...Any pro's or cons will be appreciated...I
> >just planned on filling with water getting to temp...draining a few
> >times...thanks in advance ...

>
> A GM powertrain engineer who used to post on a Caddy board cautioned
> that flushing is not necessary unless you have a clog of some sort.
> His suggestion was to just drain the rad and refill with 50% distilled
> water and 50% coolant, in this case probably Dexcool. The idea is not
> to introduce tap water with it's mineral content into the system.
> FWIW
> YMMV

That's how I did one once but I refilled the rad a with distilled water ,
ran the engine until it circulated and drained again, repeated a few times
and then filled with ant-freeze.


  #10  
Old April 4th 06, 06:50 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Flushing cooling system on GMC Savanna.........


>>
>>The idea isn't totally off base, just too weak to be effective.

>
>
> not do concerned with the corrosion, more about the dex cool coolant mixing
> with the residule in block



That's simple. Flush with straight water first (fill, start, warm up so
water circulates, shut down, and drain immediately. Then throw away any
DexCool you have, and put in Ford or Mopar G-05 coolant instead. And use
distilled water.



 




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