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Accident in parking lot -- What's the Law?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 1st 06, 10:26 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
Alex
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Accident in parking lot -- What's the Law?

Hi,

One of my biggest pet peeves is people who cut across the parking lot
instead of following the marked lines... and I was curious if one
person is following the painted marks correctly and some bozo decides
to race across the parking lot or cut between cars instead of going the
proper way, and they collide, who's at fault?

What prompted this question is my wife was driving in the local mall
parking lot and some such bozo came very close to hitting her while
driving through open parking slots instead of following the painted
lines. If she had been hit, are there laws that would've been in her
favor since she was driving properly and the bozo wasn't? Are parking
lot rules assumed or is there more legally to it? I guess not unlike a
Stop sign in a parking lot, if someone runs it is this breaking the law
if the Stop sign was placed there by the Mall and not the city or
state's DoT?

Just curious -- Thanks,

Alex

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  #2  
Old August 2nd 06, 02:10 AM posted to rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
McGyver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Accident in parking lot -- What's the Law?

"Alex" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> One of my biggest pet peeves is people who cut across the parking lot
> instead of following the marked lines... and I was curious if one
> person is following the painted marks correctly and some bozo decides
> to race across the parking lot or cut between cars instead of going the
> proper way, and they collide, who's at fault?
>
> What prompted this question is my wife was driving in the local mall
> parking lot and some such bozo came very close to hitting her while
> driving through open parking slots instead of following the painted
> lines. If she had been hit, are there laws that would've been in her
> favor since she was driving properly and the bozo wasn't? Are parking
> lot rules assumed or is there more legally to it? I guess not unlike a
> Stop sign in a parking lot, if someone runs it is this breaking the law
> if the Stop sign was placed there by the Mall and not the city or
> state's DoT?


In some jurisdictions, the property owner can, by means of posting signs,
opt to have private property treated like public streets as far as traffic
laws are concerned. That's why people can get citations for running stop
signs at some malls.

I guess that the painted parking spaces and lanes created rights of way, but
I'm just guessing.

This answer must not be relied on as legal advice for the reasons posted
he http://mcgyverdisclaimer.blogspot.com

McGyver


  #3  
Old August 2nd 06, 02:14 AM posted to rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
Dane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Accident in parking lot -- What's the Law?


"McGyver" > wrote in message
news:5YSzg.7265$jt.2526@trnddc04...
> "Alex" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > One of my biggest pet peeves is people who cut across the parking lot
> > instead of following the marked lines... and I was curious if one
> > person is following the painted marks correctly and some bozo decides
> > to race across the parking lot or cut between cars instead of going the
> > proper way, and they collide, who's at fault?
> >
> > What prompted this question is my wife was driving in the local mall
> > parking lot and some such bozo came very close to hitting her while
> > driving through open parking slots instead of following the painted
> > lines. If she had been hit, are there laws that would've been in her
> > favor since she was driving properly and the bozo wasn't? Are parking
> > lot rules assumed or is there more legally to it? I guess not unlike a
> > Stop sign in a parking lot, if someone runs it is this breaking the law
> > if the Stop sign was placed there by the Mall and not the city or
> > state's DoT?

>
> In some jurisdictions, the property owner can, by means of posting signs,
> opt to have private property treated like public streets as far as traffic
> laws are concerned. That's why people can get citations for running stop
> signs at some malls.
>
> I guess that the painted parking spaces and lanes created rights of way,

but
> I'm just guessing.
>
> This answer must not be relied on as legal advice for the reasons posted
> he http://mcgyverdisclaimer.blogspot.com
>
> McGyver
>
>


In Oklahoma, a private parking lot is a public highway.



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  #4  
Old August 2nd 06, 04:51 AM posted to rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
barking pumpkin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default Accident in parking lot -- What's the Law?

Dane wrote:
> "McGyver" > wrote in message
> news:5YSzg.7265$jt.2526@trnddc04...
>
>>"Alex" > wrote in message
roups.com...
>>
>>
>>In some jurisdictions, the property owner can, by means of posting signs,
>>opt to have private property treated like public streets as far as traffic
>>laws are concerned. That's why people can get citations for running stop
>>signs at some malls.
>>
>>I guess that the painted parking spaces and lanes created rights of way,

>
> but
>
>>I'm just guessing.
>>
>>This answer must not be relied on as legal advice for the reasons posted
>>he http://mcgyverdisclaimer.blogspot.com
>>
>>McGyver
>>
>>

>
>
> In Oklahoma, a private parking lot is a public highway.
>



In Texas, where I got my first license (and thus was the only state I
have ever taken driver's ed in), our instructor told us that we could
not be ticketed for blowing stop signs in parking lots - he did point
out, however, that we could be liable for accidents we caused by doing so.

Standard disclaimers apply. I'm no lawyer and neither was he and that
was over 20 years ago and laws may have changed and may never have
applied in whatever state anyone else drives in anyway.
  #5  
Old August 2nd 06, 06:45 AM posted to rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
GeekBoy[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Accident in parking lot -- What's the Law?


"barking pumpkin" > wrote in message
...
> Dane wrote:
>> "McGyver" > wrote in message
>> news:5YSzg.7265$jt.2526@trnddc04...
>>
>>>"Alex" > wrote in message
groups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>In some jurisdictions, the property owner can, by means of posting signs,
>>>opt to have private property treated like public streets as far as
>>>traffic
>>>laws are concerned. That's why people can get citations for running stop
>>>signs at some malls.
>>>
>>>I guess that the painted parking spaces and lanes created rights of way,

>>
>> but
>>
>>>I'm just guessing.
>>>
>>>This answer must not be relied on as legal advice for the reasons posted
>>>he http://mcgyverdisclaimer.blogspot.com
>>>
>>>McGyver
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>> In Oklahoma, a private parking lot is a public highway.
>>

>
>
> In Texas, where I got my first license (and thus was the only state I have
> ever taken driver's ed in), our instructor told us that we could not be
> ticketed for blowing stop signs in parking lots - he did point out,
> however, that we could be liable for accidents we caused by doing so.
>
> Standard disclaimers apply. I'm no lawyer and neither was he and that was
> over 20 years ago and laws may have changed and may never have applied in
> whatever state anyone else drives in anyway.


Nothing has changed. 3 Years ago in a Texas court I got found not guilty of
a traffic citation because the officer could not testify with accurate
knowledge if the incident occurred on a private or public road.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  #6  
Old August 2nd 06, 01:24 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
Mike T.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 563
Default Accident in parking lot -- What's the Law?


"Alex" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi,
>
> One of my biggest pet peeves is people who cut across the parking lot
> instead of following the marked lines... and I was curious if one
> person is following the painted marks correctly and some bozo decides
> to race across the parking lot or cut between cars instead of going the
> proper way, and they collide, who's at fault?
>
> What prompted this question is my wife was driving in the local mall
> parking lot and some such bozo came very close to hitting her while
> driving through open parking slots instead of following the painted
> lines. If she had been hit, are there laws that would've been in her
> favor since she was driving properly and the bozo wasn't? Are parking
> lot rules assumed or is there more legally to it? I guess not unlike a
> Stop sign in a parking lot, if someone runs it is this breaking the law
> if the Stop sign was placed there by the Mall and not the city or
> state's DoT?
>
> Just curious -- Thanks,
>
> Alex


Alex - Parking lots, such as those at your local mall, are PRIVATE property.
If there are any traffic-control devices on private property, they might as
well not exist. For example, you can't get a speeding ticket or a ticket
for running a stop sign, if you are on private property. The cops do NOT
have the authority to enforce traffic laws on private property. There are
certain exceptions. In some cases, there might be a public road running
through a private parking lot. In that case, cops can enforce traffic laws
on the public road. So someone ENTERING the public road from the parking
lot might get a ticket for running a STOP sign, as that person illegally
entered the public road by blowing the stop sign. But even most roads on
mall property are not PUBLIC roads, so traffic laws don't apply there
(private property).

But how this relates back to your question . . . if someone smashes into
your car (or your wife's car) in the parking lot, the cops won't even
respond, if you call them. That is, unless you tell them that there is an
injury involved. THEN they will respond as an investigation into a possible
criminal complaint. But they still won't write any "traffic" tickets as
they don't have the authority to do so. Instead, they might arrest someone
for assault or some-such, related to the injuries that someone else
suffered.

For any fender-bender in a parking lot, it boils down to the two insurance
companies duke it out for who is going to pay what. -Dave


  #7  
Old August 2nd 06, 02:58 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
Alex
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Accident in parking lot -- What's the Law?

> In some jurisdictions, the property owner can, by means of posting signs,
> opt to have private property treated like public streets as far as traffic
> laws are concerned. That's why people can get citations for running stop
> signs at some malls.
>
> I guess that the painted parking spaces and lanes created rights of way, but
> I'm just guessing.
>
> This answer must not be relied on as legal advice for the reasons posted
> he http://mcgyverdisclaimer.blogspot.com
>
> McGyver


Hi McGyver,

Thanks for the info... and also comical that you have a legal
disclaimer on your posts in the misc.legal group

Alex

  #8  
Old August 2nd 06, 06:21 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
Bill Funk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 862
Default Accident in parking lot -- What's the Law?

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:24:29 -0400, "Mike T." > wrote:

>
>"Alex" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> One of my biggest pet peeves is people who cut across the parking lot
>> instead of following the marked lines... and I was curious if one
>> person is following the painted marks correctly and some bozo decides
>> to race across the parking lot or cut between cars instead of going the
>> proper way, and they collide, who's at fault?
>>
>> What prompted this question is my wife was driving in the local mall
>> parking lot and some such bozo came very close to hitting her while
>> driving through open parking slots instead of following the painted
>> lines. If she had been hit, are there laws that would've been in her
>> favor since she was driving properly and the bozo wasn't? Are parking
>> lot rules assumed or is there more legally to it? I guess not unlike a
>> Stop sign in a parking lot, if someone runs it is this breaking the law
>> if the Stop sign was placed there by the Mall and not the city or
>> state's DoT?
>>
>> Just curious -- Thanks,
>>
>> Alex

>
>Alex - Parking lots, such as those at your local mall, are PRIVATE property.
>If there are any traffic-control devices on private property, they might as
>well not exist. For example, you can't get a speeding ticket or a ticket
>for running a stop sign, if you are on private property. The cops do NOT
>have the authority to enforce traffic laws on private property. There are
>certain exceptions. In some cases, there might be a public road running
>through a private parking lot. In that case, cops can enforce traffic laws
>on the public road. So someone ENTERING the public road from the parking
>lot might get a ticket for running a STOP sign, as that person illegally
>entered the public road by blowing the stop sign. But even most roads on
>mall property are not PUBLIC roads, so traffic laws don't apply there
>(private property).
>
>But how this relates back to your question . . . if someone smashes into
>your car (or your wife's car) in the parking lot, the cops won't even
>respond, if you call them. That is, unless you tell them that there is an
>injury involved. THEN they will respond as an investigation into a possible
>criminal complaint. But they still won't write any "traffic" tickets as
>they don't have the authority to do so. Instead, they might arrest someone
>for assault or some-such, related to the injuries that someone else
>suffered.
>
>For any fender-bender in a parking lot, it boils down to the two insurance
>companies duke it out for who is going to pay what. -Dave
>

From experience:
Police will respond to a crash in a parking lot to take a report.
That report can be used in a civil case to recover damages.

In my case, the other driver blew a stop sign in a parking lot, and
insisted it meant nothing because the parking lot was private
property. He was right, to a point.
I called the police to make a report, and the other driver told the
cop he blew the sign, because it was private property.
Both of our insurance companies decided he was at fault for blowing
the stop sign, after a judge decided the same thing.
Just my experience.
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"
  #9  
Old August 3rd 06, 03:51 AM posted to rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
richard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Accident in parking lot -- What's the Law?


"Mike T." > wrote in message
reenews.net...
>
> "Alex" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> One of my biggest pet peeves is people who cut across the parking lot
>> instead of following the marked lines... and I was curious if one
>> person is following the painted marks correctly and some bozo decides
>> to race across the parking lot or cut between cars instead of going the
>> proper way, and they collide, who's at fault?
>>
>> What prompted this question is my wife was driving in the local mall
>> parking lot and some such bozo came very close to hitting her while
>> driving through open parking slots instead of following the painted
>> lines. If she had been hit, are there laws that would've been in her
>> favor since she was driving properly and the bozo wasn't? Are parking
>> lot rules assumed or is there more legally to it? I guess not unlike a
>> Stop sign in a parking lot, if someone runs it is this breaking the law
>> if the Stop sign was placed there by the Mall and not the city or
>> state's DoT?
>>
>> Just curious -- Thanks,
>>
>> Alex

>
> Alex - Parking lots, such as those at your local mall, are PRIVATE
> property. If there are any traffic-control devices on private property,
> they might as well not exist. For example, you can't get a speeding
> ticket or a ticket for running a stop sign, if you are on private
> property. The cops do NOT have the authority to enforce traffic laws on
> private property. There are certain exceptions. In some cases, there
> might be a public road running through a private parking lot. In that
> case, cops can enforce traffic laws on the public road. So someone
> ENTERING the public road from the parking lot might get a ticket for
> running a STOP sign, as that person illegally entered the public road by
> blowing the stop sign. But even most roads on mall property are not
> PUBLIC roads, so traffic laws don't apply there (private property).
>
> But how this relates back to your question . . . if someone smashes into
> your car (or your wife's car) in the parking lot, the cops won't even
> respond, if you call them. That is, unless you tell them that there is
> an injury involved. THEN they will respond as an investigation into a
> possible criminal complaint. But they still won't write any "traffic"
> tickets as they don't have the authority to do so. Instead, they might
> arrest someone for assault or some-such, related to the injuries that
> someone else suffered.
>
> For any fender-bender in a parking lot, it boils down to the two insurance
> companies duke it out for who is going to pay what. -Dave
>


In some states, Ohio, I know, I lived there for 45 years, has laws
pertaining to the use "private property for public purposes". The cops, can
and do, enforce various laws on those "private" propertys. Including
speeding, reckless operation, running stop signs, illegal parking in fire
lanes, and even illegal parking in handicap spaces. In this case of an
accident on such a property, the officer could cite the other driver for
reckless operation.

Then there is the thing about whom is responsible for the damage. Not the
owner of the property for sure. As the owner is generally protected by
posting wording like "Not responsible for damage to private
property.......".


  #10  
Old August 3rd 06, 06:00 AM posted to rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
GeekBoy[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Accident in parking lot -- What's the Law?


"Bill Funk" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:24:29 -0400, "Mike T." > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Alex" > wrote in message
roups.com...
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> One of my biggest pet peeves is people who cut across the parking lot
>>> instead of following the marked lines... and I was curious if one
>>> person is following the painted marks correctly and some bozo decides
>>> to race across the parking lot or cut between cars instead of going the
>>> proper way, and they collide, who's at fault?
>>>
>>> What prompted this question is my wife was driving in the local mall
>>> parking lot and some such bozo came very close to hitting her while
>>> driving through open parking slots instead of following the painted
>>> lines. If she had been hit, are there laws that would've been in her
>>> favor since she was driving properly and the bozo wasn't? Are parking
>>> lot rules assumed or is there more legally to it? I guess not unlike a
>>> Stop sign in a parking lot, if someone runs it is this breaking the law
>>> if the Stop sign was placed there by the Mall and not the city or
>>> state's DoT?
>>>
>>> Just curious -- Thanks,
>>>
>>> Alex

>>
>>Alex - Parking lots, such as those at your local mall, are PRIVATE
>>property.
>>If there are any traffic-control devices on private property, they might
>>as
>>well not exist. For example, you can't get a speeding ticket or a ticket
>>for running a stop sign, if you are on private property. The cops do NOT
>>have the authority to enforce traffic laws on private property. There are
>>certain exceptions. In some cases, there might be a public road running
>>through a private parking lot. In that case, cops can enforce traffic
>>laws
>>on the public road. So someone ENTERING the public road from the parking
>>lot might get a ticket for running a STOP sign, as that person illegally
>>entered the public road by blowing the stop sign. But even most roads on
>>mall property are not PUBLIC roads, so traffic laws don't apply there
>>(private property).
>>
>>But how this relates back to your question . . . if someone smashes into
>>your car (or your wife's car) in the parking lot, the cops won't even
>>respond, if you call them. That is, unless you tell them that there is
>>an
>>injury involved. THEN they will respond as an investigation into a
>>possible
>>criminal complaint. But they still won't write any "traffic" tickets as
>>they don't have the authority to do so. Instead, they might arrest
>>someone
>>for assault or some-such, related to the injuries that someone else
>>suffered.
>>
>>For any fender-bender in a parking lot, it boils down to the two insurance
>>companies duke it out for who is going to pay what. -Dave
>>

> From experience:
> Police will respond to a crash in a parking lot to take a report.
> That report can be used in a civil case to recover damages.


Not all states wil they do that. I know in California and Texas they will
not.

>
> In my case, the other driver blew a stop sign in a parking lot, and
> insisted it meant nothing because the parking lot was private
> property. He was right, to a point.
> I called the police to make a report, and the other driver told the
> cop he blew the sign, because it was private property.
> Both of our insurance companies decided he was at fault for blowing
> the stop sign, after a judge decided the same thing.
> Just my experience.
> --
> Bill Funk
> replace "g" with "a"




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 




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