tunnel to pan connection

Maybe find a better body to start with? All of the stuff you mentioned can
be fixed but at some point, the $ spent gets a bit high for the car that
you're dealing with. If you're dead set on fixing this one, I'd be very
patient and look for donor cars with weldable sheet metal sections from
non-rust belt areas.
Andy
63 Camper

"ilambert" > wrote in message
...
> Ya,it must be nice to "restore" only perfect cars.I think he was asking
for
> advice,not wise-ass comments about his choice of projects.
> "Ben Boyle" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Yeah, and he didn't ask about if he should throw it away eh? Admittedly
> > his obviously will require some dedication but
> > that doesn't mean he should be told to just automatically throw it away.
> > "johnboy" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "Remco" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >> > Hi all
> >> > Just got a 72 regular beetle and am evaluating what needs to be done.
> >> >
> >> > It will need floors, heater channels and one of the door post bottoms
> >> > will need to be reconstructed.
> >>
> >> Throw it away. Find a better start. Don't waste your time and money on
> >> it.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:25:10 -0500, "johnboy" >
scribbled this interesting note:

>
>"ilambert" > wrote in message
...
>> Ya,it must be nice to "restore" only perfect cars.I think he was asking
>> for advice,not wise-ass comments about his choice of projects.
>
>Hey, you can be all kind and gentle and waste the man's precious time and
>money. I have more respect for his effort. A bug that late in that kind of
>shape is junk.
>

I concur.

--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

"John Willis" > wrote in message
...
>
> I concur.
>
>

..................I don't know where Remco lives but there is a real scarcity
of solid, rot-free bugs in the NE and upper midwest regions of the US. What
few are out there are too expensive unless you want to take out a bank loan.
I'm not saying that it's a good idea to spend a tremendous amount of time
and money on a seventies era bug but if he's made the decision to go ahead
with this project, why should any of us be concerned? I had to spend four
days and about $500 in traveling expenses to bring my '77 back to NY from
Colorado and if I didn't know and trust the seller, I don't think that I
would have done it. Without traveling across the country inorder to get a
solid bug, I would be faced with this same dilemma of whether to try to
resurrect a rotted-out bug myself.

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:54:26 -0500, Michael Cecil
> scribbled this interesting note:

>On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:36:00 GMT, "Tim Rogers" > wrote:
>
>>"John Willis" > wrote in message
. ..
>>>
>>> I concur.
>>>
>>.................I don't know where Remco lives but there is a real scarcity
>>of solid, rot-free bugs in the NE and upper midwest regions of the US. What
>>few are out there are too expensive unless you want to take out a bank loan.
>>I'm not saying that it's a good idea to spend a tremendous amount of time
>>and money on a seventies era bug but if he's made the decision to go ahead
>>with this project, why should any of us be concerned? I had to spend four
>>days and about $500 in traveling expenses to bring my '77 back to NY from
>>Colorado and if I didn't know and trust the seller, I don't think that I
>>would have done it. Without traveling across the country inorder to get a
>>solid bug, I would be faced with this same dilemma of whether to try to
>>resurrect a rotted-out bug myself.
>
>Anyhow, isn't part of the fun doing the resurrecting?

Tim, you saved yourself far more money by going halfway across the
country to buy that bug than if you'd purchased a rotted out hulk best
bought as a donor car.

Michael, as for the fun of resurrection, I'm not too sure about that.
There are too many variables involved to make that determination for
anyone but yourself. The level of ability of the owner, the facilities
available, the amount of time available, local municipal laws and
regulations, all this and more goes into how much fun it may, or may
not, be.

I've said this time and again, if you want to get into antique cars,
do the research and buy the very best example of the car you want that
you can find and afford. Anywhere. I too have gone halfway across the
country to buy a car. I've gone much shorter distances as well (as
little as a few miles to a few hundred miles to as much as a thousand
miles.)

The car in question needs completely rebuilt and it requires repairs
never dreamt of by the original designers as they couldn't know how
their design would hold up over decades of use, abuse, and neglect. It
will require significant welding and auto body skills, paint skills,
mechanical skills, electrical skills, and a large amount of
determination. The learning curve is steep which is why you see so
many "project" cars for sale.

Anyone can buy a rotted out shell of a Beetle for just a little cash.
S/he can spend years accumulating the necessary skills and tools and
supplies to build that car. S/he can spend thousands upon thousands of
dollars on parts and supplies and thousands upon thousands of man
hours putting it all together. In the end s/he will have, hopefully, a
car s/he can enjoy owning and driving. Or the potential owner can be
patient, look around (and I mean using a telescope if necessary), and
in time a good car will come along that will cost a little more up
front, but at the end of the project, thousands upon thousands of
dollars and hours will be saved.

As most who read here know, building a car isn't like assembling a
model. Once again, John Henry (http://www.thebugshop.org/) tells the
story well. Even he, after finishing the '57, said he wouldn't do it
again, and although he's bought other VWs, he's stayed true to his
word. It is a big undertaking for a novice. I'm not exactly a novice
and I don't want to do a body off restoration, especially when the '59
we have could be had, just a couple of hundred miles away, needing
very little additional work, for well under what anyone will spend to
build up a rotted out Beetle.

I understand that in areas where they approve of making cars dissolve
that it is difficult to find anything over ten years old that might be
roadworthy. But that does not mean a potential buyer has to settle for
a car that has no pans, no heater channels, half the doors because the
bottom half rotted off with the channels, etc., etc., etc. Tear into a
car like that and far more damage will be found. Ask Scott about the
cars he's cut up that would have made you folks in the north east cry.
'Round these parts there was no justification for keeping them since
better examples are easily found. The cars he cut up were all daily
drivers in comparison with the car in question in this thread. Sad?
Not really. It is just using the available resources to their best
effect. Scott (and I) have limited space, limited time, and the
determination was made that those cars would take up less yard room if
cut up, spare parts boxed up and stored away, and the rest put on the
curb for the scrap metal guy (or the City-whoever got to it first) to
pick up. If Steven in Arkansas hadn't bought it, that '68 Autostick we
had was next on the list. Another week or two and that car would have
been in small pieces. and a few boxes...

I suppose it all comes down to what is most important to the potential
buyer. Do you want to learn a new hobby from the inside out? Do you
have the time? Are your pockets deep? Then buy a project and enjoy
yourself. But if you have a family, a job that takes up a fair amount
of time, and anything resembling a social life, then you might want to
re-think buying a car with that many problems. Be patient, buy a
better one that requires far less, and enjoy life instead of a
project.

Just one opinion on the subject...
--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

"Tim Rogers" >

> [...]I had to spend four
> days and about $500 in traveling expenses to bring my '77 back to NY from
> Colorado and if I didn't know and trust the seller, I don't think that I
> would have done it. [...]

You got one heck of a deal, too. Me thinks the Olde Hippie you got it from
really didn't need the money - he made what, a cool million bucks from
Microsoft?

That said, there are good locations to find reasonably rust-free Bugs,
cheap. If someone wants to rent a transport, we can make some bucks.

"Michael Cecil" > wrote in message
...

> Anyhow, isn't part of the fun doing the resurrecting?

It's a religious thing. Just ask my wife - While working on my various
project vehicles, I spoke more holy names in passion than I did in the
seminary.

Most bugs are "restored" using more Christian science ("Oh God, I hope it
runs") than mechanical science.

"johnboy" > wrote in message
...
>
> You got one heck of a deal, too. Me thinks the Olde Hippie you got it from
> really didn't need the money - he made what, a cool million bucks from
> Microsoft?
>
>

...................I didn't ask and he didn't say but I'd guess that one
million might be on the low side. I think he said something about writing
part of Windows NT while I was at his house but my memory isn't too great. I
just happened to be browsing RAMVA at the very moment that Earle posted that
he wanted to sell his bug. My email went back to him in less than a minute
and he kept his word to me about letting me have it even though it took at
least a few months for me to get my act together and fly out to Colorado.
Olde Hippie or not, Earle Horton is a great guy who stands by his word.
There were at least a few others here who wished that they had been online
at the right moment that day when he posted that he was getting out of the
hobby.

"Tim Rogers" > wrote in message
news
> Olde Hippie or not, Earle Horton is a great guy who stands by his word.

Indeed true, and it is worth repeating, thus the quotation.

Tim Rogers wrote:
> "John Willis" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I concur.
> >
> >
>
> .................I don't know where Remco lives but there is a real scarcity
> of solid, rot-free bugs in the NE and upper midwest regions of the US. What
> few are out there are too expensive unless you want to take out a bank loan.
> I'm not saying that it's a good idea to spend a tremendous amount of time
> and money on a seventies era bug but if he's made the decision to go ahead
> with this project, why should any of us be concerned? I had to spend four
> days and about $500 in traveling expenses to bring my '77 back to NY from
> Colorado and if I didn't know and trust the seller, I don't think that I
> would have done it. Without traveling across the country inorder to get a
> solid bug, I would be faced with this same dilemma of whether to try to
> resurrect a rotted-out bug myself.

Thanks, Tim.

Connecticut -- Fairfield county, near the LI sound: Terrible area when
it comes to snow, sleet, ice, rain and salt being used here and there.

There are not a whole lot of solid bugs around here one can buy for a
reasonable price. (read "zero bugs")
The ones that don't need pans and channels usually are already
restored, since that is the first thing one needs to do to any bug,
certainly up here. (why do all of that and then give up, right?)

On the other comments, saying it is a waste of time:
Is replacing floors and channels that much harder than replacing floors
or rocker panels on any other car? If so, that's gonna be an
interesting challenge, then.

My only worry is actually having the time -- it might take a while to
properly get it done. A lack of time will still not stop me, though.

Sjeesh, if we just give up because something is hard, we would have
never put anyone on the moon nor communicate by means of PCs as we now
take for granted, for that matter

"Remco" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> Connecticut -- Fairfield county, near the LI sound: Terrible area when
> it comes to snow, sleet, ice, rain and salt being used here and there.

I've lived there many years ago. It was pretty then.

> Sjeesh, if we just give up because something is hard, we would have
> never put anyone on the moon nor communicate by means of PCs as we now
> take for granted, for that matter

Heh. Resurrecting a Bug from a pile of iron oxide ain't exactly pioneering
work.

Think of how much you are willing to spend, and then see how much of that
might be obviated by getting a better start.