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Pilot shaft bushing wearing fast and often!!



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 12th 06, 04:47 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Ervin Charles
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Pilot shaft bushing wearing fast and often!!

Hey Group,
My 84 CJ7, 258, T5, Dana 300 is about to get it's 3rd pilot shaft bushing
in 15,000 miles. Seems like every 5000 miles or so, I start getting a weird
grinding sound as I'm down-shifting and slowing down. I yank the tranny and
the pilot shaft bushing is worn and allowing the input shaft excessive
movement side to side, probably .015" to .020". I've placed a thick felt
pad behind the pilot bushing soaked in 90 wt gear lube, I've put wheel
bearing grease in, on and behind the bushing, I've replaced the input shaft
on the tranny, I've looked for any obvious signs of mis-alignment in the
drive train (no body or suspension lift). It's not a huge job to change the
bushing out but I'm getting tired of doing it. I really just don't need the
practice if you get my drift. Does anyone have any idea what may be causing
this? Is there a pilot bearing made for 4.2 jeeps to replace the bushing? If
so, who sells them?
Any and all input appreciated,
Thanks,
Charles E.

81 DJ5L
79 CJ7
84 CJ7
92 Cherokee
Yeah, they're all old and wore out!


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  #2  
Old August 13th 06, 11:56 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Earle Horton[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 222
Default Pilot shaft bushing wearing fast and often!!

Input shaft bearing? Bearings between the back of the input shaft and the
front of the mainshaft? Transmission to bell housing alignment? Bell
housing to engine block alignment pins? How are you installing the
bushings? If you hit them wrong they can be damaged. If this is a sintered
brass bushing, then it is supposed to have something like engine oil soaked
into it, probably the felt pad too. The only likely thing I can think of,
is that you are getting new old stock bushings that have dried out in
storage.

Earle

"Ervin Charles" > wrote in message
...
> Hey Group,
> My 84 CJ7, 258, T5, Dana 300 is about to get it's 3rd pilot shaft

bushing
> in 15,000 miles. Seems like every 5000 miles or so, I start getting a

weird
> grinding sound as I'm down-shifting and slowing down. I yank the tranny

and
> the pilot shaft bushing is worn and allowing the input shaft excessive
> movement side to side, probably .015" to .020". I've placed a thick felt
> pad behind the pilot bushing soaked in 90 wt gear lube, I've put wheel
> bearing grease in, on and behind the bushing, I've replaced the input

shaft
> on the tranny, I've looked for any obvious signs of mis-alignment in the
> drive train (no body or suspension lift). It's not a huge job to change

the
> bushing out but I'm getting tired of doing it. I really just don't need

the
> practice if you get my drift. Does anyone have any idea what may be

causing
> this? Is there a pilot bearing made for 4.2 jeeps to replace the bushing?

If
> so, who sells them?
> Any and all input appreciated,
> Thanks,
> Charles E.
>
> 81 DJ5L
> 79 CJ7
> 84 CJ7
> 92 Cherokee
> Yeah, they're all old and wore out!
>
>



  #3  
Old August 14th 06, 12:43 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Mike Romain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,758
Default Pilot shaft bushing wearing fast and often!!

The YJ comes with a bearing instead of a bushing. The bearing can be
made to fit, but the inside would need to be machined slightly to take
the different tranny shaft diameter. Not a lot mind you, but it could
be a bitch with a rat tail file....

The stock bushing uses 10W30 engine oil on a felt pad and should be
soaked.

I think the OP is maybe running them dry by using gear lube and grease.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> Input shaft bearing? Bearings between the back of the input shaft and the
> front of the mainshaft? Transmission to bell housing alignment? Bell
> housing to engine block alignment pins? How are you installing the
> bushings? If you hit them wrong they can be damaged. If this is a sintered
> brass bushing, then it is supposed to have something like engine oil soaked
> into it, probably the felt pad too. The only likely thing I can think of,
> is that you are getting new old stock bushings that have dried out in
> storage.
>
> Earle
>
> "Ervin Charles" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hey Group,
> > My 84 CJ7, 258, T5, Dana 300 is about to get it's 3rd pilot shaft

> bushing
> > in 15,000 miles. Seems like every 5000 miles or so, I start getting a

> weird
> > grinding sound as I'm down-shifting and slowing down. I yank the tranny

> and
> > the pilot shaft bushing is worn and allowing the input shaft excessive
> > movement side to side, probably .015" to .020". I've placed a thick felt
> > pad behind the pilot bushing soaked in 90 wt gear lube, I've put wheel
> > bearing grease in, on and behind the bushing, I've replaced the input

> shaft
> > on the tranny, I've looked for any obvious signs of mis-alignment in the
> > drive train (no body or suspension lift). It's not a huge job to change

> the
> > bushing out but I'm getting tired of doing it. I really just don't need

> the
> > practice if you get my drift. Does anyone have any idea what may be

> causing
> > this? Is there a pilot bearing made for 4.2 jeeps to replace the bushing?

> If
> > so, who sells them?
> > Any and all input appreciated,
> > Thanks,
> > Charles E.
> >
> > 81 DJ5L
> > 79 CJ7
> > 84 CJ7
> > 92 Cherokee
> > Yeah, they're all old and wore out!
> >
> >

  #4  
Old August 14th 06, 12:55 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,109
Default Pilot shaft bushing wearing fast and often!!

Hi Mike,
I've never heard of using a "The stock bushing uses 10W30 engine
oil on a felt pad and should be
soaked." seems like you would be asking for a heck of a chatter. A disk
is like brake shoes, we can't even leave body oil on them.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> The YJ comes with a bearing instead of a bushing. The bearing can be
> made to fit, but the inside would need to be machined slightly to take
> the different tranny shaft diameter. Not a lot mind you, but it could
> be a bitch with a rat tail file....
>
> The stock bushing uses 10W30 engine oil on a felt pad and should be
> soaked.
>
> I think the OP is maybe running them dry by using gear lube and grease.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

  #5  
Old August 14th 06, 02:07 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Earle Horton[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 222
Default Pilot shaft bushing wearing fast and often!!

The way I understand it, sintered brass bushings are meant to be
"impregnated" with oil, but as you say there should be no surplus.

Earle

"L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Mike,
> I've never heard of using a "The stock bushing uses 10W30 engine
> oil on a felt pad and should be
> soaked." seems like you would be asking for a heck of a chatter. A disk
> is like brake shoes, we can't even leave body oil on them.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > The YJ comes with a bearing instead of a bushing. The bearing can be
> > made to fit, but the inside would need to be machined slightly to take
> > the different tranny shaft diameter. Not a lot mind you, but it could
> > be a bitch with a rat tail file....
> >
> > The stock bushing uses 10W30 engine oil on a felt pad and should be
> > soaked.
> >
> > I think the OP is maybe running them dry by using gear lube and grease.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)



  #6  
Old August 14th 06, 02:17 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Lon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 699
Default Pilot shaft bushing wearing fast and often!!


Oilite type bearings in an auto engine? They worked reasonably well in
low rpm computer gear where the side load wasn't very high and the rpm
range was low. Excess oil was never good news.

Earle Horton proclaimed:
> The way I understand it, sintered brass bushings are meant to be
> "impregnated" with oil, but as you say there should be no surplus.
>
> Earle
>
> "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hi Mike,
>> I've never heard of using a "The stock bushing uses 10W30 engine
>>oil on a felt pad and should be
>>soaked." seems like you would be asking for a heck of a chatter. A disk
>>is like brake shoes, we can't even leave body oil on them.
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/
>>
>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>
>>>The YJ comes with a bearing instead of a bushing. The bearing can be
>>>made to fit, but the inside would need to be machined slightly to take
>>>the different tranny shaft diameter. Not a lot mind you, but it could
>>>be a bitch with a rat tail file....
>>>
>>>The stock bushing uses 10W30 engine oil on a felt pad and should be
>>>soaked.
>>>
>>>I think the OP is maybe running them dry by using gear lube and grease.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

>
>
>

  #7  
Old August 14th 06, 03:53 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Earle Horton[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 222
Default Pilot shaft bushing wearing fast and often!!

That's what was used in pilot bushings for as long as I can remember. Low
duty cycle, heat, inaccessibility, and undesirability of excess lubricant
were probably the main design factors. Maybe Volkswagen Bug was the first
large scale production car to use a roller bearing type. First one I saw
anyway.

Earle

"Lon" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Oilite type bearings in an auto engine? They worked reasonably well in
> low rpm computer gear where the side load wasn't very high and the rpm
> range was low. Excess oil was never good news.
>
> Earle Horton proclaimed:
> > The way I understand it, sintered brass bushings are meant to be
> > "impregnated" with oil, but as you say there should be no surplus.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Hi Mike,
> >> I've never heard of using a "The stock bushing uses 10W30 engine
> >>oil on a felt pad and should be
> >>soaked." seems like you would be asking for a heck of a chatter. A disk
> >>is like brake shoes, we can't even leave body oil on them.
> >> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
> >>
> >>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>
> >>>The YJ comes with a bearing instead of a bushing. The bearing can be
> >>>made to fit, but the inside would need to be machined slightly to take
> >>>the different tranny shaft diameter. Not a lot mind you, but it could
> >>>be a bitch with a rat tail file....
> >>>
> >>>The stock bushing uses 10W30 engine oil on a felt pad and should be
> >>>soaked.
> >>>
> >>>I think the OP is maybe running them dry by using gear lube and grease.
> >>>
> >>>Mike
> >>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

> >
> >
> >



  #8  
Old August 14th 06, 02:46 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Mike Romain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,758
Default Pilot shaft bushing wearing fast and often!!

They call it a 'bushing oil wick' in my book. This wick gets stuffed
into the end of the crank, then the 'bronze' bushing gets pressed in.
Once the tranny nose is inserted there isn't much room for oil to pass.

It isn't like you fill the end of the crank with oil or something....

Mike

"L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
> I've never heard of using a "The stock bushing uses 10W30 engine
> oil on a felt pad and should be
> soaked." seems like you would be asking for a heck of a chatter. A disk
> is like brake shoes, we can't even leave body oil on them.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > The YJ comes with a bearing instead of a bushing. The bearing can be
> > made to fit, but the inside would need to be machined slightly to take
> > the different tranny shaft diameter. Not a lot mind you, but it could
> > be a bitch with a rat tail file....
> >
> > The stock bushing uses 10W30 engine oil on a felt pad and should be
> > soaked.
> >
> > I think the OP is maybe running them dry by using gear lube and grease.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

  #9  
Old August 15th 06, 01:07 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,109
Default Pilot shaft bushing wearing fast and often!!

Well, I'm going to continue to just stick a grease film into it
with my finger: http://www.billhughes.com/temp/clutch.pdf
http://www.billhughes.com/temp/pilotBearingHaynes.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O


Mike Romain wrote:
>
> They call it a 'bushing oil wick' in my book. This wick gets stuffed
> into the end of the crank, then the 'bronze' bushing gets pressed in.
> Once the tranny nose is inserted there isn't much room for oil to pass.
>
> It isn't like you fill the end of the crank with oil or something....
>
> Mike

  #10  
Old August 15th 06, 02:47 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Will Honea[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 552
Default Pilot shaft bushing wearing fast and often!!

Mine was still full of grease from using the grease method to pop the
old one out - figured that should liquify an/or get wicked in by the
nose of the pilot shaft. 60K miles and no obvious problem.

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 00:07:51 UTC "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III"
> wrote:

> Well, I'm going to continue to just stick a grease film into it
> with my finger: http://www.billhughes.com/temp/clutch.pdf
> http://www.billhughes.com/temp/pilotBearingHaynes.jpg
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > They call it a 'bushing oil wick' in my book. This wick gets stuffed
> > into the end of the crank, then the 'bronze' bushing gets pressed in.
> > Once the tranny nose is inserted there isn't much room for oil to pass.
> >
> > It isn't like you fill the end of the crank with oil or something....
> >
> > Mike



--
Will Honea
 




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