Question to those who use synthetic oil

I am considering switching to synthetic oil when I buy a new Accord in
the next few months. Do the manufacturers of synthetic oil offer a
sticker to put near the engine block reminding anyone who services my
car that I am using synthetic oil?. I often get my oil changed at the
dealer or those quick lube places. Even though they offer synthetic
oil, I may not remember each time to indicate this. I want the extra
measure of caution with the sticker. K&N air filters give you a
sticker to place over the air filter compartment, so whoever services
the car, they dont need to be replaced like the paper ones

On 15 Jul 2004 00:23:21 -0700, (Joe Blo) wrote:

>I am considering switching to synthetic oil when I buy a new Accord in
>the next few months. Do the manufacturers of synthetic oil offer a
>sticker to put near the engine block reminding anyone who services my
>car that I am using synthetic oil?. I often get my oil changed at the
>dealer or those quick lube places. Even though they offer synthetic
>oil, I may not remember each time to indicate this. I want the extra
>measure of caution with the sticker. K&N air filters give you a
>sticker to place over the air filter compartment, so whoever services
>the car, they dont need to be replaced like the paper ones

First, leave the factory fill in for the full service interval you expect
to use for your driving habits. Second, go one more full oil change cycle
before switching to synthetic.

For the sticker it won't make any difference - most of the quick-lube
places and even dealers don't care. It's even been reported that a dealer
made err, a mistake and the synthetic oil the customer had supplied was
neatly stashed in a corner of the workshop. If you don't want to be
treated like that, find a good shop you trust and supply your own oil if
necessary.

BTW synthetic oils are not all really synthetic any longer. For the mass
market, Mobil1 is the only one I trust; Valvoline and Castrol have
confessed that they are using hydrocracked mineral basestocks in their
"synthetics".

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

I've found that checking the oil with a white tissue paper, immediately
after the oil change is a good indicator to determine if you have the
correct oil. The Mobel-1 tent to be brownish is appearance while the
regular honda oil is more goldish. However, if the oil change hasn't
been done properly and the new oil still has dirt in it, it'll be
difficult to make a comparisons since the dirt will give the oil a more
brownish appearance. The nice thing about using a white tissue paper to
check the oil, is that it allows the oil to soak through, which makes it
easier to determine if there's still dirt in the oil.

Another way to determine that the engine has the correct oil, is to
check if after after about 3000 km (2000 miles) of driving. The regular
oil will get muddy more quickly then the mobel-1.

If you don't already have a comparisons point, it'll be very difficult
to determine if your engine is getting cheated out of the synthetic oil.


Pars
98 DX Hatch


Joe Blo wrote:
>
> I am considering switching to synthetic oil when I buy a new Accord in
> the next few months. Do the manufacturers of synthetic oil offer a
> sticker to put near the engine block reminding anyone who services my
> car that I am using synthetic oil?. I often get my oil changed at the
> dealer or those quick lube places. Even though they offer synthetic
> oil, I may not remember each time to indicate this. I want the extra
> measure of caution with the sticker. K&N air filters give you a
> sticker to place over the air filter compartment, so whoever services
> the car, they dont need to be replaced like the paper ones

> I've found that checking the oil with a white tissue paper, immediately
> after the oil change is a good indicator to determine if you have the
> correct oil. The Mobel-1 tent to be brownish is appearance while the
> regular honda oil is more goldish. However, if the oil change hasn't
> been done properly and the new oil still has dirt in it, it'll be
> difficult to make a comparisons since the dirt will give the oil a more
> brownish appearance. The nice thing about using a white tissue paper to
> check the oil, is that it allows the oil to soak through, which makes it
> easier to determine if there's still dirt in the oil.
>
> Another way to determine that the engine has the correct oil, is to
> check if after after about 3000 km (2000 miles) of driving. The regular
> oil will get muddy more quickly then the mobel-1.
>
> If you don't already have a comparisons point, it'll be very difficult
> to determine if your engine is getting cheated out of the synthetic oil.
>
I've never found color to be consistent in oils. I've had different
batches of the
same weight Castrol oil be different shades, some really light, others not.

I recently bought Exxon 5w-20 and was surprised at how dark the oil was.
The color of a beef gravy. I don't imagine the color means anything
about the quality, I personally just like the oil to be lighter.

Norm
> Pars
> 98 DX Hatch
>
>
> Joe Blo wrote:
>
>>I am considering switching to synthetic oil when I buy a new Accord in
>>the next few months. Do the manufacturers of synthetic oil offer a
>>sticker to put near the engine block reminding anyone who services my
>>car that I am using synthetic oil?. I often get my oil changed at the
>>dealer or those quick lube places. Even though they offer synthetic
>>oil, I may not remember each time to indicate this. I want the extra
>>measure of caution with the sticker. K&N air filters give you a
>>sticker to place over the air filter compartment, so whoever services
>>the car, they dont need to be replaced like the paper ones

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:47:04 -0400, George Macdonald
> wrote:

>For the sticker it won't make any difference - most of the quick-lube
>places and even dealers don't care.

I quite agree! Some of the gomers in those places can't even read or
speak English. Find a trustworthy independent mechanic.

George Macdonald wrote:

> On 15 Jul 2004 00:23:21 -0700, (Joe Blo) wrote:
>
>
>>I am considering switching to synthetic oil when I buy a new Accord in
>>the next few months. Do the manufacturers of synthetic oil offer a
>>sticker to put near the engine block reminding anyone who services my
>>car that I am using synthetic oil?. I often get my oil changed at the
>>dealer or those quick lube places. Even though they offer synthetic
>>oil, I may not remember each time to indicate this. I want the extra
>>measure of caution with the sticker. K&N air filters give you a
>>sticker to place over the air filter compartment, so whoever services
>>the car, they dont need to be replaced like the paper ones
>
>
> First, leave the factory fill in for the full service interval you expect
> to use for your driving habits. Second, go one more full oil change cycle
> before switching to synthetic.
>
> For the sticker it won't make any difference - most of the quick-lube
> places and even dealers don't care. It's even been reported that a dealer
> made err, a mistake and the synthetic oil the customer had supplied was
> neatly stashed in a corner of the workshop. If you don't want to be
> treated like that, find a good shop you trust and supply your own oil if
> necessary.
>
> BTW synthetic oils are not all really synthetic any longer. For the mass
> market, Mobil1 is the only one I trust; Valvoline and Castrol have
> confessed that they are using hydrocracked mineral basestocks in their
> "synthetics".

Are you sure about that? I've heard of people asking Valvoline, and
getting a response that it's still a PAO/ester blend.

The following is Valvoline's description of what makes synthetics
different. They make a big deal about how their synthetics are
made differently than "mineral oils".

<http://www.valvoline.com/synpower/articleviewer.asp?pg=ccr20011002sb>

However - Valvoline has attached the "SynPower" name to a variety
of different products that are inherently synthetic. This includes
brake fluid and fuel system cleaners. That's more marketing than
anything.

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:35:08 GMT, y_p_w > wrote:

>
>
>George Macdonald wrote:
>
>> On 15 Jul 2004 00:23:21 -0700, (Joe Blo) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I am considering switching to synthetic oil when I buy a new Accord in
>>>the next few months. Do the manufacturers of synthetic oil offer a
>>>sticker to put near the engine block reminding anyone who services my
>>>car that I am using synthetic oil?. I often get my oil changed at the
>>>dealer or those quick lube places. Even though they offer synthetic
>>>oil, I may not remember each time to indicate this. I want the extra
>>>measure of caution with the sticker. K&N air filters give you a
>>>sticker to place over the air filter compartment, so whoever services
>>>the car, they dont need to be replaced like the paper ones
>>
>>
>> First, leave the factory fill in for the full service interval you expect
>> to use for your driving habits. Second, go one more full oil change cycle
>> before switching to synthetic.
>>
>> For the sticker it won't make any difference - most of the quick-lube
>> places and even dealers don't care. It's even been reported that a dealer
>> made err, a mistake and the synthetic oil the customer had supplied was
>> neatly stashed in a corner of the workshop. If you don't want to be
>> treated like that, find a good shop you trust and supply your own oil if
>> necessary.
>>
>> BTW synthetic oils are not all really synthetic any longer. For the mass
>> market, Mobil1 is the only one I trust; Valvoline and Castrol have
>> confessed that they are using hydrocracked mineral basestocks in their
>> "synthetics".
>
>Are you sure about that? I've heard of people asking Valvoline, and
>getting a response that it's still a PAO/ester blend.

Look up the MSDS - I don't have time to look just now but last time I
looked their 10W-30, e.g. had: "HYDROTREATED HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE
(PE 64742-54-7 53.0- 63.0". It used to read "POLYALPHAOLEFIN
SYNTHETIC OIL".

FWIW, I asked Castrol the same question and got the same answer, i.e. PAO,
long after they'd confessed he
http://www.castrolusa.com/syntecresponse.html. Hey, they lied.<shrug>

>The following is Valvoline's description of what makes synthetics
>different. They make a big deal about how their synthetics are
>made differently than "mineral oils".
>
><http://www.valvoline.com/synpower/articleviewer.asp?pg=ccr20011002sb>
>
>However - Valvoline has attached the "SynPower" name to a variety
>of different products that are inherently synthetic. This includes
>brake fluid and fuel system cleaners. That's more marketing than
>anything.

Yes and the formal claim is that hydrocracked or hydrotreated petroleum
distillates *are* "synthetic" - the molecules have been sufficiently
massaged to qualify. As noted in the above URL, the National Advertising
Division of the BBB has supported Castrol in this claim.<shrug> As a
former petrochemical-chemist, I choose to disagree.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

> I've never found color to be consistent in oils. I've had different
> batches of the
> same weight Castrol oil be different shades, some really light, others not.
>

I only recently starting paying close attention to the oil's
texture/shade since
my episode with the honda dealership. For the last 3 oil changes, the
Mobel-1's shade/texture
seems to be consistent (which is encouraging when compare to unreliable
result from
the past...)

Pars


> I recently bought Exxon 5w-20 and was surprised at how dark the oil was.
> The color of a beef gravy. I don't imagine the color means anything
> about the quality, I personally just like the oil to be lighter.
>



> Norm
> > Pars
> > 98 DX Hatch
> >
> >
> > Joe Blo wrote:
> >
> >>I am considering switching to synthetic oil when I buy a new Accord in
> >>the next few months. Do the manufacturers of synthetic oil offer a
> >>sticker to put near the engine block reminding anyone who services my
> >>car that I am using synthetic oil?. I often get my oil changed at the
> >>dealer or those quick lube places. Even though they offer synthetic
> >>oil, I may not remember each time to indicate this. I want the extra
> >>measure of caution with the sticker. K&N air filters give you a
> >>sticker to place over the air filter compartment, so whoever services
> >>the car, they dont need to be replaced like the paper ones

George Macdonald wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:35:08 GMT, y_p_w > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>George Macdonald wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 15 Jul 2004 00:23:21 -0700, (Joe Blo) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am considering switching to synthetic oil when I buy a new Accord in
>>>>the next few months. Do the manufacturers of synthetic oil offer a
>>>>sticker to put near the engine block reminding anyone who services my
>>>>car that I am using synthetic oil?. I often get my oil changed at the
>>>>dealer or those quick lube places. Even though they offer synthetic
>>>>oil, I may not remember each time to indicate this. I want the extra
>>>>measure of caution with the sticker. K&N air filters give you a
>>>>sticker to place over the air filter compartment, so whoever services
>>>>the car, they dont need to be replaced like the paper ones
>>>
>>>
>>>First, leave the factory fill in for the full service interval you expect
>>>to use for your driving habits. Second, go one more full oil change cycle
>>>before switching to synthetic.
>>>
>>>For the sticker it won't make any difference - most of the quick-lube
>>>places and even dealers don't care. It's even been reported that a dealer
>>>made err, a mistake and the synthetic oil the customer had supplied was
>>>neatly stashed in a corner of the workshop. If you don't want to be
>>>treated like that, find a good shop you trust and supply your own oil if
>>>necessary.
>>>
>>>BTW synthetic oils are not all really synthetic any longer. For the mass
>>>market, Mobil1 is the only one I trust; Valvoline and Castrol have
>>>confessed that they are using hydrocracked mineral basestocks in their
>>>"synthetics".
>>
>>Are you sure about that? I've heard of people asking Valvoline, and
>>getting a response that it's still a PAO/ester blend.
>
>
> Look up the MSDS - I don't have time to look just now but last time I
> looked their 10W-30, e.g. had: "HYDROTREATED HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE
> (PE 64742-54-7 53.0- 63.0". It used to read "POLYALPHAOLEFIN
> SYNTHETIC OIL".

Let's see:

SynPower MXL 0W-30: NO HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS PRESENT

SynPower 5W-30: PETROLEUM HYDROCARBON
CAS 64742-54-7 52.0-62.0% by weight

SynPowwer 5W-40: only mentions detergent dispersal package and zinc.

SynPower 10W-30: HYDROTREATED HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE
CAS 64742-54-7 53.0-63.0% by weight

SynPower 20W-50: 1-DECENE HYDROGENATED HOMOPOLYMER
CAS 68037-01-4 65.0-75.0% by weight

It seems as if they use a variety of different base oils, although
you're correct that some of them seem to be ppetroleum based. The
20W-50 ingredient sounds suspiciously like a synthetic polymer.

> FWIW, I asked Castrol the same question and got the same answer, i.e. PAO,
> long after they'd confessed he
> http://www.castrolusa.com/syntecresponse.html. Hey, they lied.<shrug>
>
>>The following is Valvoline's description of what makes synthetics
>>different. They make a big deal about how their synthetics are
>>made differently than "mineral oils".
>>
>><http://www.valvoline.com/synpower/articleviewer.asp?pg=ccr20011002sb>
>>
>>However - Valvoline has attached the "SynPower" name to a variety
>>of different products that are inherently synthetic. This includes
>>brake fluid and fuel system cleaners. That's more marketing than
>>anything.
>
>
> Yes and the formal claim is that hydrocracked or hydrotreated petroleum
> distillates *are* "synthetic" - the molecules have been sufficiently
> massaged to qualify. As noted in the above URL, the National Advertising
> Division of the BBB has supported Castrol in this claim.<shrug> As a
> former petrochemical-chemist, I choose to disagree.

Heck - even Amsoil is selling one (Series 7500) of them as a "synthetic"
oil.

Well if your paying 4-5 bucks a quart for oil I don't see how you can forget
to mention it.

CaptainKrunch

"Joe Blo" > wrote in message
om...
> I am considering switching to synthetic oil when I buy a new Accord in
> the next few months. Do the manufacturers of synthetic oil offer a
> sticker to put near the engine block reminding anyone who services my
> car that I am using synthetic oil?. I often get my oil changed at the
> dealer or those quick lube places. Even though they offer synthetic
> oil, I may not remember each time to indicate this. I want the extra
> measure of caution with the sticker. K&N air filters give you a
> sticker to place over the air filter compartment, so whoever services
> the car, they dont need to be replaced like the paper ones