Spring over questions

After going wheeling last week, I found I really do need more height and
bigger tires. My 85/91 YJ-7 has the 258 and T-5 tranny along with stock
diffs with 3" of body lift and 31-10.50 TRXUS tires, but needs more
clearance for larger tires. I have plenty of clearance with my current
tires. I recently replaced the front springs and all the shocks. It's
amazing how well it rides.

I keep hearing about doing a spring over conversion. What all odd problems
might come from this? Is it worth the effort? Are there steering problems
that need to be remedied? I drive my Jeep both on and off road. How does
the conversion affect ride quality? Are there better kits out there, or are
they pretty much all the same? With spring over how big of tires would you
go with?

Lots of questions, I know, but any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

--
Chuck

I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian

Hi Chuck,
The correct way to do it is with add a leaf for more rigidity then
have the combination re-arced at your local spring shop. Repositioned
shock mounts with new shocks with longer travel, Modified driveshaft
slip joints, with constant velocity universal joints. If you still want
spring wrap and broken shafts:
http://www.dehesa4x4.com/osburn/tech/soa.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Chuck wrote:
>
> After going wheeling last week, I found I really do need more height and
> bigger tires. My 85/91 YJ-7 has the 258 and T-5 tranny along with stock
> diffs with 3" of body lift and 31-10.50 TRXUS tires, but needs more
> clearance for larger tires. I have plenty of clearance with my current
> tires. I recently replaced the front springs and all the shocks. It's
> amazing how well it rides.
>
> I keep hearing about doing a spring over conversion. What all odd problems
> might come from this? Is it worth the effort? Are there steering problems
> that need to be remedied? I drive my Jeep both on and off road. How does
> the conversion affect ride quality? Are there better kits out there, or are
> they pretty much all the same? With spring over how big of tires would you
> go with?
>
> Lots of questions, I know, but any help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Chuck
>
> I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian

SOA is the way to go, Chuck.

It is absolutely worth the effort over lift springs because it will ride
just as well as stock, and outflex most lift springs. Also, it frees up a
TON of space under the axles giving you even more clearance.

There really are no 'odd' problems with spring-over. Most trucks and 4x4's
come from the factory with a spring-over type setup.

The only problem that I encountered was the drag link vs pass front spring
clearance. On a hard right turn, the drag link would sometimes graze the
spring. The spring shaved off a wee bit of the drag link, providing the
needed clearance.

SOA kills stock wrangler leaf packs. The way to combat this is to buy
someone else's stock wrangler leaf packs. Whichever main leaves are worse,
cut off the spring eyes and add them below the main leaf in the good pack.
Also throw in the small leaf at the bottom to give your drag link more
clearance and add a little hieght. The extra main leaf will keep your
springs alive and give you about 1" extra. Alternatively, you can buy
springs designed for Spring over from Rubicon, with or without added lift.

A kit is not required. All you need is: 4 spring perches, 4" drop pitman
arm, longer rear brake line, 4 shocks, and a CV drive shaft with SYE from
Tom Wood for the rear driveline. The front driveline and brake lines are
plenty long enough.

With a spring-over on stock springs, you can clear 35's without trimming. I
ran 33's on a sprung-over 89 YJ with great success. You mentioned having
stock axles. If you have the D35 rear, most don't reccomend going above 33's
because of breakage issues.

HTH,

Carl


"Chuck" > wrote in message
. com...
> After going wheeling last week, I found I really do need more height and
> bigger tires. My 85/91 YJ-7 has the 258 and T-5 tranny along with stock
> diffs with 3" of body lift and 31-10.50 TRXUS tires, but needs more
> clearance for larger tires. I have plenty of clearance with my current
> tires. I recently replaced the front springs and all the shocks. It's
> amazing how well it rides.
>
> I keep hearing about doing a spring over conversion. What all odd
> problems might come from this? Is it worth the effort? Are there
> steering problems that need to be remedied? I drive my Jeep both on and
> off road. How does the conversion affect ride quality? Are there better
> kits out there, or are they pretty much all the same? With spring over
> how big of tires would you go with?
>
> Lots of questions, I know, but any help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Chuck
>
> I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian
>

I don't know carl, I think you are ignoring alot of the other problems
associated with SOA. Especially if you were to follow and read Bill's link,
there are alot of other factors to consider to an SOA. He'd get the same
amount of lift with a 4.5" Rubicon express extreme lift, and wouldn't have
all of the other problems associated with SOA.......I really don't think its
cheaper if it's done "correctly"

Carl wrote:
>SOA is the way to go, Chuck.
>
>It is absolutely worth the effort over lift springs because it will ride
>just as well as stock, and outflex most lift springs. Also, it frees up a
>TON of space under the axles giving you even more clearance.
>
>There really are no 'odd' problems with spring-over. Most trucks and 4x4's
>come from the factory with a spring-over type setup.
>
>The only problem that I encountered was the drag link vs pass front spring
>clearance. On a hard right turn, the drag link would sometimes graze the
>spring. The spring shaved off a wee bit of the drag link, providing the
>needed clearance.
>
>SOA kills stock wrangler leaf packs. The way to combat this is to buy
>someone else's stock wrangler leaf packs. Whichever main leaves are worse,
>cut off the spring eyes and add them below the main leaf in the good pack.
>Also throw in the small leaf at the bottom to give your drag link more
>clearance and add a little hieght. The extra main leaf will keep your
>springs alive and give you about 1" extra. Alternatively, you can buy
>springs designed for Spring over from Rubicon, with or without added lift.
>
>A kit is not required. All you need is: 4 spring perches, 4" drop pitman
>arm, longer rear brake line, 4 shocks, and a CV drive shaft with SYE from
>Tom Wood for the rear driveline. The front driveline and brake lines are
>plenty long enough.
>
>With a spring-over on stock springs, you can clear 35's without trimming. I
>ran 33's on a sprung-over 89 YJ with great success. You mentioned having
>stock axles. If you have the D35 rear, most don't reccomend going above 33's
>because of breakage issues.
>
>HTH,
>
>Carl
>
>> After going wheeling last week, I found I really do need more height and
>> bigger tires. My 85/91 YJ-7 has the 258 and T-5 tranny along with stock
>[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>
>> Thanks

--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

I followed Bill's link. The only issue encountered with SOA not encountered
with spring-under is axle wrap. The added leaf does the trick for the most
part. Adding a ladder bar will eliminate the axle wrap.

I feel that going SOA is a huge advantage over spring-under simply because
of the added clearance with moving the springs. I don't like my U-bolt ends
and springs hanging out waiting to catch on anything and everything. As
spring clearance wasn't enough, long springs on an spring-under
configuration coupled with lift shackles point the shackles backwards or
straight down. SOA points them away from the Jeep, keeping them out of
harm's way.

The RE spring-under lift 4.5" lift nets 4.5 - 5".

Just springing over gives 5.5". Add the stock wrangler main leaf and short
leaf, net 6.5-7".

IMHO, upgrading an SUA suspension is a waste of money.


"robb6435 via CarKB.com" <u7360@uwe> wrote in message
news:5da983038ae5e@uwe...
>I don't know carl, I think you are ignoring alot of the other problems
> associated with SOA. Especially if you were to follow and read Bill's
> link,
> there are alot of other factors to consider to an SOA. He'd get the same
> amount of lift with a 4.5" Rubicon express extreme lift, and wouldn't have
> all of the other problems associated with SOA.......I really don't think
> its
> cheaper if it's done "correctly"
>
> Carl wrote:
>>SOA is the way to go, Chuck.
>>
>>It is absolutely worth the effort over lift springs because it will ride
>>just as well as stock, and outflex most lift springs. Also, it frees up a
>>TON of space under the axles giving you even more clearance.
>>
>>There really are no 'odd' problems with spring-over. Most trucks and 4x4's
>>come from the factory with a spring-over type setup.
>>
>>The only problem that I encountered was the drag link vs pass front spring
>>clearance. On a hard right turn, the drag link would sometimes graze the
>>spring. The spring shaved off a wee bit of the drag link, providing the
>>needed clearance.
>>
>>SOA kills stock wrangler leaf packs. The way to combat this is to buy
>>someone else's stock wrangler leaf packs. Whichever main leaves are worse,
>>cut off the spring eyes and add them below the main leaf in the good pack.
>>Also throw in the small leaf at the bottom to give your drag link more
>>clearance and add a little hieght. The extra main leaf will keep your
>>springs alive and give you about 1" extra. Alternatively, you can buy
>>springs designed for Spring over from Rubicon, with or without added lift.
>>
>>A kit is not required. All you need is: 4 spring perches, 4" drop pitman
>>arm, longer rear brake line, 4 shocks, and a CV drive shaft with SYE from
>>Tom Wood for the rear driveline. The front driveline and brake lines are
>>plenty long enough.
>>
>>With a spring-over on stock springs, you can clear 35's without trimming.
>>I
>>ran 33's on a sprung-over 89 YJ with great success. You mentioned having
>>stock axles. If you have the D35 rear, most don't reccomend going above
>>33's
>>because of breakage issues.
>>
>>HTH,
>>
>>Carl
>>
>>> After going wheeling last week, I found I really do need more height and
>>> bigger tires. My 85/91 YJ-7 has the 258 and T-5 tranny along with stock
>>[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>>
>>> Thanks
>
> --
> Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

actually, the advertised 4.5" lift actually lifted my jeep 6.25". Did you
forget about the steering linkage problems associated with your SOA? I
didn't hear you mention anything about them.....there are none with the kit
from RE.....Add a 1" body lift and I have everything a SOA has without
welding or ladder bars or anything else.......without axle wrap.......and
I'll place my springs against a SOA for flexability anytime......ESPECIALLY
when you are adding leaf's and rearcing the stock one's.....sounds like a
whole lotta hassle......

"The only problem that I encountered was the drag link vs pass front spring
clearance. On a hard right turn, the drag link would sometimes graze the
spring. The spring shaved off a wee bit of the drag link, providing the
needed clearance."

Doesn't sound like something I'd like to have on my rig....

--From Bill's link----
Another steering solution, if you're willing to spend the dough on your stock
Dana 30 is from M.O.R.E. Basically the M.O.R.E. kit adds bracketry to the
Dana 30 so you can mount the axle end of the draglink above the springs.
This kit is pictured below. Not a cheap solution, but a very good one.

Anything else you might have overlooked??? better read the article again.....


Carl wrote:
>I followed Bill's link. The only issue encountered with SOA not encountered
>with spring-under is axle wrap. The added leaf does the trick for the most
>part. Adding a ladder bar will eliminate the axle wrap.
>
>I feel that going SOA is a huge advantage over spring-under simply because
>of the added clearance with moving the springs. I don't like my U-bolt ends
>and springs hanging out waiting to catch on anything and everything. As
>spring clearance wasn't enough, long springs on an spring-under
>configuration coupled with lift shackles point the shackles backwards or
>straight down. SOA points them away from the Jeep, keeping them out of
>harm's way.
>
>The RE spring-under lift 4.5" lift nets 4.5 - 5".
>
>Just springing over gives 5.5". Add the stock wrangler main leaf and short
>leaf, net 6.5-7".
>
>IMHO, upgrading an SUA suspension is a waste of money.
>
>>I don't know carl, I think you are ignoring alot of the other problems
>> associated with SOA. Especially if you were to follow and read Bill's
>[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>>>>
>>>> Thanks

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/jeep-cars/200603/1

I don't buy a lift based on what 'someone' got from the springs. They are
advertised and rated at 4.5".

I didn't need a 1" body lift to clear 33's or even 35's.

Spring-under can't compete with Spring-over for clearance at the axle.
U-bolt ends are out there just waiting to get smashed and torn off. The
clearance difference between SOA and SUA is the same that you'll see running
35's vs 33's. Pretty substantial if you ask me.

I didn't mention re-arching the springs, wrangler stock springs are very
soft and still flex very well even with double main leafs.

I'm not sure what 'steering linkage problems' you were referring to, but
with both SOA and SUA, eventually hi-steer will be required to get the tie
rod out of the way and get the drag link paralell to the axle. The same
holds true for every Jeep out there.

With 7.5" of lift, my 89 Wrangler handled just fine with a 4" drop pitman
arm. No bumpsteer, even at 70mph.

The OP wasn't asking which one is less hassle. I'm less concerned with
putting in a little more work and more concerned with getting better
performance.

If axle wrap was that big of an issue, 90% of other 4x4s would not be sprung
over from the factory. RE sells springs designed to work on a sprung over
Wrangler. One could spring over on stock springs netting 5.5" of lift, then
later replace thier stock springs with RE SOA springs and get another 1.5",
for a total 7".

With SUA lift springs, 4.5" + 2" shackles is IT. Any more lift will need to
be body lift. With SOA, you get 5.5" + spring lift + shackles. Anyone who is
really serious will eventually spring it over.

I've got a ton of flex pics of my SOA Wrangler, I'd be happy to swap and
compare.

Carl

"robb6435 via CarKB.com" <u7360@uwe> wrote in message
news:5daab01ed9438@uwe...
> actually, the advertised 4.5" lift actually lifted my jeep 6.25". Did you
> forget about the steering linkage problems associated with your SOA? I
> didn't hear you mention anything about them.....there are none with the
> kit
> from RE.....Add a 1" body lift and I have everything a SOA has without
> welding or ladder bars or anything else.......without axle wrap.......and
> I'll place my springs against a SOA for flexability
> anytime......ESPECIALLY
> when you are adding leaf's and rearcing the stock one's.....sounds like a
> whole lotta hassle......
>
> "The only problem that I encountered was the drag link vs pass front
> spring
> clearance. On a hard right turn, the drag link would sometimes graze the
> spring. The spring shaved off a wee bit of the drag link, providing the
> needed clearance."
>
> Doesn't sound like something I'd like to have on my rig....
>
> --From Bill's link----
> Another steering solution, if you're willing to spend the dough on your
> stock
> Dana 30 is from M.O.R.E. Basically the M.O.R.E. kit adds bracketry to the
> Dana 30 so you can mount the axle end of the draglink above the springs.
> This kit is pictured below. Not a cheap solution, but a very good one.
>
> Anything else you might have overlooked??? better read the article
> again.....
>
>
> Carl wrote:
>>I followed Bill's link. The only issue encountered with SOA not
>>encountered
>>with spring-under is axle wrap. The added leaf does the trick for the most
>>part. Adding a ladder bar will eliminate the axle wrap.
>>
>>I feel that going SOA is a huge advantage over spring-under simply because
>>of the added clearance with moving the springs. I don't like my U-bolt
>>ends
>>and springs hanging out waiting to catch on anything and everything. As
>>spring clearance wasn't enough, long springs on an spring-under
>>configuration coupled with lift shackles point the shackles backwards or
>>straight down. SOA points them away from the Jeep, keeping them out of
>>harm's way.
>>
>>The RE spring-under lift 4.5" lift nets 4.5 - 5".
>>
>>Just springing over gives 5.5". Add the stock wrangler main leaf and short
>>leaf, net 6.5-7".
>>
>>IMHO, upgrading an SUA suspension is a waste of money.
>>
>>>I don't know carl, I think you are ignoring alot of the other problems
>>> associated with SOA. Especially if you were to follow and read Bill's
>>[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>
> --
> Message posted via CarKB.com
> http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/jeep-cars/200603/1

Hi Carl
To be picky you didn't change the axle height. All you did was
remove the spring from under the axle at a point where the tires keep
the rocks from, anyway.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Carl wrote:
>
> I don't buy a lift based on what 'someone' got from the springs. They are
> advertised and rated at 4.5".
>
> I didn't need a 1" body lift to clear 33's or even 35's.
>
> Spring-under can't compete with Spring-over for clearance at the axle.
> U-bolt ends are out there just waiting to get smashed and torn off. The
> clearance difference between SOA and SUA is the same that you'll see running
> 35's vs 33's. Pretty substantial if you ask me.
>
> I didn't mention re-arching the springs, wrangler stock springs are very
> soft and still flex very well even with double main leafs.
>
> I'm not sure what 'steering linkage problems' you were referring to, but
> with both SOA and SUA, eventually hi-steer will be required to get the tie
> rod out of the way and get the drag link paralell to the axle. The same
> holds true for every Jeep out there.
>
> With 7.5" of lift, my 89 Wrangler handled just fine with a 4" drop pitman
> arm. No bumpsteer, even at 70mph.
>
> The OP wasn't asking which one is less hassle. I'm less concerned with
> putting in a little more work and more concerned with getting better
> performance.
>
> If axle wrap was that big of an issue, 90% of other 4x4s would not be sprung
> over from the factory. RE sells springs designed to work on a sprung over
> Wrangler. One could spring over on stock springs netting 5.5" of lift, then
> later replace thier stock springs with RE SOA springs and get another 1.5",
> for a total 7".
>
> With SUA lift springs, 4.5" + 2" shackles is IT. Any more lift will need to
> be body lift. With SOA, you get 5.5" + spring lift + shackles. Anyone who is
> really serious will eventually spring it over.
>
> I've got a ton of flex pics of my SOA Wrangler, I'd be happy to swap and
> compare.
>
> Carl

Which I believe I was able to skid over rocks, rather being caught
by that straight across tube without any lead.

> Hi Carl
> To be picky you didn't change the axle height. All you did was
> remove the spring from under the axle at a point where the tires keep
> the rocks from, anyway.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/

Carl Replied....
..I'm not sure what 'steering linkage problems' you were referring to, but
with both SOA and SUA, eventually hi-steer will be required to get the tie
rod out of the way and get the drag link paralell to the axle. The same
holds true for every Jeep out there.
well Carl, if you were to have read your first response to this thread, the
one I copied and pasted to your last reply, you would have understood exactly
what I was referring to.
By the way, I don't need a one inch body lift to clear 33's or 35's.....and I
don't think I want anything bigger than 35's on a Jeep anyway....just me
personally....I just feel bigger tires need more gearing and motor than I'm
willing to go for....
If I want bigger tires, I'd probbably go buy an old ford bronco where
everything was already done RIGHT from the factory....

L.W.(ßill) Hughes III wrote:
> Which I believe I was able to skid over rocks, rather being caught
>by that straight across tube without any lead.
>
>> Hi Carl
>> To be picky you didn't change the axle height. All you did was
>> remove the spring from under the axle at a point where the tires keep
>> the rocks from, anyway.
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> http://www.billhughes.com/

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/jeep-cars/200603/1