$5 a gallon for gas? Get ready, experts say

"Pete C." > writes:

> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=305001
>>
>> I can believe it.
>> cuhulin
>
> It's called "inflation". The price of everything will always go up since
> currency is designed to loose value over time. The ultimate result is
> that nothing really changes, the cost of goods go up, peoples pay goes
> up and in the end you have to work the same number of hours to be able
> to buy the same stuff.

I would be glad if it cost just $5, here in Europe it is around $8 already.

On 2011-03-24, Thomas Tornblom > wrote:
> "Pete C." > writes:
>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=305001
>>>
>>> I can believe it.
>>> cuhulin

>> It's called "inflation". The price of everything will always go up since
>> currency is designed to loose value over time. The ultimate result is
>> that nothing really changes, the cost of goods go up, peoples pay goes
>> up and in the end you have to work the same number of hours to be able
>> to buy the same stuff.

Inflation is the increase of the money supply. It's how the wealthy (who
own the banks) get more wealthy. Essentially the loss of buying power of
your savings is transfered to them as they get the use of the newly
created money before the prices go up. They use the new money to aquire
assets at the old prices.

> I would be glad if it cost just $5, here in Europe it is around $8 already.

There is no way to compare pump price to pump price because of the
different tax models. What should be compared is the cost of the
gasoline itself, not the price at the pump. Each time I've done this the
difference between the US and europe isn't very big.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:12:44 +0000 (UTC), Brent
> wrote:

>On 2011-03-24, Thomas Tornblom > wrote:
>> "Pete C." > writes:
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=305001
>>>>
>>>> I can believe it.
>>>> cuhulin
>
>>> It's called "inflation". The price of everything will always go up since
>>> currency is designed to loose value over time. The ultimate result is
>>> that nothing really changes, the cost of goods go up, peoples pay goes
>>> up and in the end you have to work the same number of hours to be able
>>> to buy the same stuff.
>
>Inflation is the increase of the money supply. It's how the wealthy (who
>own the banks) get more wealthy. Essentially the loss of buying power of
>your savings is transfered to them as they get the use of the newly
>created money before the prices go up. They use the new money to aquire
>assets at the old prices.
>
>> I would be glad if it cost just $5, here in Europe it is around $8 already.
>
>There is no way to compare pump price to pump price because of the
>different tax models. What should be compared is the cost of the
>gasoline itself, not the price at the pump. Each time I've done this the
>difference between the US and europe isn't very big.

Riiiight.
I pay 3 1/2 bucks, he pays 8 bucks.
So because of taxes, we're paying the same price.
You're quite an economist.

Brent wrote:
>
> On 2011-03-24, Thomas Tornblom > wrote:
> > "Pete C." > writes:
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=305001
> >>>
> >>> I can believe it.
> >>> cuhulin
>
> >> It's called "inflation". The price of everything will always go up since
> >> currency is designed to loose value over time. The ultimate result is
> >> that nothing really changes, the cost of goods go up, peoples pay goes
> >> up and in the end you have to work the same number of hours to be able
> >> to buy the same stuff.
>
> Inflation is the increase of the money supply.

Not at all. Inflation is the increase in prices of goods and services
brought on by demand. Increasing the availability of money does tend to
increase demand, but there is no guarantee. For example the huge
increase in the money supply in the last 30 mos has had very slight
effect on demand.

> It's how the wealthy (who
> own the banks) get more wealthy. Essentially the loss of buying power of
> your savings is transfered to them as they get the use of the newly
> created money before the prices go up. They use the new money to aquire
> assets at the old prices.

You say that as if you assume people have savings. The vast majority of
Americans are deeply in debt. For someone heavily in debt inflation
works in their favor and falling prices would be disastrous. The most
blatant example is what happens when you have a mortgage that equals
half the value of your home and home prices start to fall.


>
> > I would be glad if it cost just $5, here in Europe it is around $8 already.
>
> There is no way to compare pump price to pump price because of the
> different tax models. What should be compared is the cost of the
> gasoline itself, not the price at the pump. Each time I've done this the
> difference between the US and europe isn't very big.

Why would a consumer of gasoline not compare pump prices?

-jim

On 2011-03-24, Vic Smith > wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:12:44 +0000 (UTC), Brent
> wrote:
>
>>On 2011-03-24, Thomas Tornblom > wrote:
>>> "Pete C." > writes:
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=305001
>>>>>
>>>>> I can believe it.
>>>>> cuhulin
>>
>>>> It's called "inflation". The price of everything will always go up since
>>>> currency is designed to loose value over time. The ultimate result is
>>>> that nothing really changes, the cost of goods go up, peoples pay goes
>>>> up and in the end you have to work the same number of hours to be able
>>>> to buy the same stuff.
>>
>>Inflation is the increase of the money supply. It's how the wealthy (who
>>own the banks) get more wealthy. Essentially the loss of buying power of
>>your savings is transfered to them as they get the use of the newly
>>created money before the prices go up. They use the new money to aquire
>>assets at the old prices.
>>
>>> I would be glad if it cost just $5, here in Europe it is around $8 already.
>>
>>There is no way to compare pump price to pump price because of the
>>different tax models. What should be compared is the cost of the
>>gasoline itself, not the price at the pump. Each time I've done this the
>>difference between the US and europe isn't very big.

> Riiiight.
> I pay 3 1/2 bucks, he pays 8 bucks.
> So because of taxes, we're paying the same price.
> You're quite an economist.

The reason these various monetary and tax systems exist is because so
many people have your level of intelligence that others can take
advantage of.

I'll make this simple so you can understand. As many people in the US
know, the sales tax in Chicago, Illinois is rather high. You can buy a
new DVD player in chicago, priced at $70. You can go to another location
of the same chain retailer in northwest Indiana and the price is $70.
Now in Chicago, thanks to the 11% sales tax, you'll pay 4% more than you
would in Indiana. The price of the DVD player is the same, the taxes are
different.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:04:59 +0000 (UTC), Brent
> wrote:

>On 2011-03-24, Vic Smith > wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:12:44 +0000 (UTC), Brent
> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2011-03-24, Thomas Tornblom > wrote:
>>>> "Pete C." > writes:
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=305001
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can believe it.
>>>>>> cuhulin
>>>
>>>>> It's called "inflation". The price of everything will always go up since
>>>>> currency is designed to loose value over time. The ultimate result is
>>>>> that nothing really changes, the cost of goods go up, peoples pay goes
>>>>> up and in the end you have to work the same number of hours to be able
>>>>> to buy the same stuff.
>>>
>>>Inflation is the increase of the money supply. It's how the wealthy (who
>>>own the banks) get more wealthy. Essentially the loss of buying power of
>>>your savings is transfered to them as they get the use of the newly
>>>created money before the prices go up. They use the new money to aquire
>>>assets at the old prices.
>>>
>>>> I would be glad if it cost just $5, here in Europe it is around $8 already.
>>>
>>>There is no way to compare pump price to pump price because of the
>>>different tax models. What should be compared is the cost of the
>>>gasoline itself, not the price at the pump. Each time I've done this the
>>>difference between the US and europe isn't very big.
>
>> Riiiight.
>> I pay 3 1/2 bucks, he pays 8 bucks.
>> So because of taxes, we're paying the same price.
>> You're quite an economist.
>
>The reason these various monetary and tax systems exist is because so
>many people have your level of intelligence that others can take
>advantage of.
>
>I'll make this simple so you can understand. As many people in the US
>know, the sales tax in Chicago, Illinois is rather high. You can buy a
>new DVD player in chicago, priced at $70. You can go to another location
>of the same chain retailer in northwest Indiana and the price is $70.
>Now in Chicago, thanks to the 11% sales tax, you'll pay 4% more than you
>would in Indiana. The price of the DVD player is the same, the taxes are
>different.
>

Wow. You've educated me now.
So you're saying the guy in Europe can just drive over here to
Illinois to fill up.
More brilliance.
Hey, he pays 8 bucks a gallon, I pay 3 1/2 bucks a gallon.
That's all you gotta know to compare gas prices.
Despite what you say, there'a a big difference in what we pay for gas.

On 2011-03-24, jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m> wrote:
> Brent wrote:
>>
>> On 2011-03-24, Thomas Tornblom > wrote:
>> > "Pete C." > writes:
>> >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=305001
>> >>>
>> >>> I can believe it.
>> >>> cuhulin
>>
>> >> It's called "inflation". The price of everything will always go up since
>> >> currency is designed to loose value over time. The ultimate result is
>> >> that nothing really changes, the cost of goods go up, peoples pay goes
>> >> up and in the end you have to work the same number of hours to be able
>> >> to buy the same stuff.
>>
>> Inflation is the increase of the money supply.
>
> Not at all. Inflation is the increase in prices of goods and services
> brought on by demand. Increasing the availability of money does tend to
> increase demand, but there is no guarantee. For example the huge
> increase in the money supply in the last 30 mos has had very slight
> effect on demand.

Wrong. Increasing prices are a symptom of an increasing money supply.
Not all prices increase evenly and because suppliers are reluctant to
increase prices, inflation does not show up in finished goods and
services right away. Most of the Ben's helicopter dropping is locked up
in bank reserves, however it is showing up in commodities.

>> It's how the wealthy (who
>> own the banks) get more wealthy. Essentially the loss of buying power of
>> your savings is transfered to them as they get the use of the newly
>> created money before the prices go up. They use the new money to aquire
>> assets at the old prices.

> You say that as if you assume people have savings. The vast majority of
> Americans are deeply in debt. For someone heavily in debt inflation
> works in their favor and falling prices would be disastrous. The most
> blatant example is what happens when you have a mortgage that equals
> half the value of your home and home prices start to fall.

And when you operate in that manner, to discourage savings and encourage
debt, you undermine the entire economy and society. People become very
present focused. Also, a low savings rate should mean high interest
rates. Interest rates are the cost of borrowing money. The time
preference of money. Flooding in new money to rig interest rates shifts
the time preference to the present.

As to the price of one's home, it falls in the bust
phase of the inflationary boom-bust cycle (when the new money went into
homes). You have to live somewhere. The only thing that really matters
is the price relative to other homes. If the price falls below what you
owe, well there's a chance to walk away and stick the bank with it.
That's part of the hazard of blowing bubbles with large supplies new and
cheap money.

Now had the fed never blown a bubble in the first place, if there was a
forced discipline on the money supply, there would not have been a
problem. Prices would go down on goods and services every year as people
became more productive. This doesn't hurt electronics or any other
industry that has a productivity increase rate higher than the fed's
inflation rate.

>> > I would be glad if it cost just $5, here in Europe it is around $8 already.

>> There is no way to compare pump price to pump price because of the
>> different tax models. What should be compared is the cost of the
>> gasoline itself, not the price at the pump. Each time I've done this the
>> difference between the US and europe isn't very big.

> Why would a consumer of gasoline not compare pump prices?

I suppose if he doesn't care who/what is stealing from him he wouldn't
look any further than the pump price. People notice the tax differences
on other goods where the tax isn't rolled into the price and go to lower
tax territories to make their purchases. People are attracted to buy
gasoline in other states and counties nearby because of a lower tax
rate, most seem to understand it's a tax difference locally but have
difficulty grasping it when the two locations are far from each other.

On 2011-03-24, Vic Smith > wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:04:59 +0000 (UTC), Brent
> wrote:
>
>>On 2011-03-24, Vic Smith > wrote:
>>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:12:44 +0000 (UTC), Brent
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2011-03-24, Thomas Tornblom > wrote:
>>>>> "Pete C." > writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=305001
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can believe it.
>>>>>>> cuhulin
>>>>
>>>>>> It's called "inflation". The price of everything will always go up since
>>>>>> currency is designed to loose value over time. The ultimate result is
>>>>>> that nothing really changes, the cost of goods go up, peoples pay goes
>>>>>> up and in the end you have to work the same number of hours to be able
>>>>>> to buy the same stuff.
>>>>
>>>>Inflation is the increase of the money supply. It's how the wealthy (who
>>>>own the banks) get more wealthy. Essentially the loss of buying power of
>>>>your savings is transfered to them as they get the use of the newly
>>>>created money before the prices go up. They use the new money to aquire
>>>>assets at the old prices.
>>>>
>>>>> I would be glad if it cost just $5, here in Europe it is around $8 already.
>>>>
>>>>There is no way to compare pump price to pump price because of the
>>>>different tax models. What should be compared is the cost of the
>>>>gasoline itself, not the price at the pump. Each time I've done this the
>>>>difference between the US and europe isn't very big.
>>
>>> Riiiight.
>>> I pay 3 1/2 bucks, he pays 8 bucks.
>>> So because of taxes, we're paying the same price.
>>> You're quite an economist.
>>
>>The reason these various monetary and tax systems exist is because so
>>many people have your level of intelligence that others can take
>>advantage of.
>>
>>I'll make this simple so you can understand. As many people in the US
>>know, the sales tax in Chicago, Illinois is rather high. You can buy a
>>new DVD player in chicago, priced at $70. You can go to another location
>>of the same chain retailer in northwest Indiana and the price is $70.
>>Now in Chicago, thanks to the 11% sales tax, you'll pay 4% more than you
>>would in Indiana. The price of the DVD player is the same, the taxes are
>>different.
>>
>
> Wow. You've educated me now.
> So you're saying the guy in Europe can just drive over here to
> Illinois to fill up.
> More brilliance.
> Hey, he pays 8 bucks a gallon, I pay 3 1/2 bucks a gallon.
> That's all you gotta know to compare gas prices.
> Despite what you say, there'a a big difference in what we pay for gas.

Say you live in a state that has a 6% income tax rate and have a salary
of 75K/yr. Another guy lives in another state with no income tax, he
also has a salary of 75k/yr. Does he make more money than you?

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:31:27 +0000 (UTC), Brent
> wrote:
>
>Say you live in a state that has a 6% income tax rate and have a salary
>of 75K/yr. Another guy lives in another state with no income tax, he
>also has a salary of 75k/yr. Does he make more money than you?
>

He takes home more because I pay 6% in taxes.
Guy in Europe pays 8 bucks a gallon, I pay 3 1/2 bucks a gallon.
Who pays more to put gas in his tank?

Brent wrote:

>
> And when you operate in that manner, to discourage savings and encourage
> debt, you undermine the entire economy and society. People become very
> present focused. Also, a low savings rate should mean high interest
> rates. Interest rates are the cost of borrowing money. The time
> preference of money. Flooding in new money to rig interest rates shifts
> the time preference to the present.

"Undermine the entire economy" means not the way you like it to be. But
your views are not necessarily popular.

>
> As to the price of one's home, it falls in the bust
> phase of the inflationary boom-bust cycle (when the new money went into
> homes). You have to live somewhere. The only thing that really matters
> is the price relative to other homes. If the price falls below what you
> owe, well there's a chance to walk away and stick the bank with it.
> That's part of the hazard of blowing bubbles with large supplies new and
> cheap money.

Yeah except that you also tend to have massive unemployment during these
housing busts.




>
> Now had the fed never blown a bubble in the first place, if there was a
> forced discipline on the money supply, there would not have been a
> problem. Prices would go down on goods and services every year as people
> became more productive. This doesn't hurt electronics or any other
> industry that has a productivity increase rate higher than the fed's
> inflation rate.

So the fed is what blew the bubble? Do you claim this was by design or
accident?


>
> >> > I would be glad if it cost just $5, here in Europe it is around $8 already.
>
> >> There is no way to compare pump price to pump price because of the
> >> different tax models. What should be compared is the cost of the
> >> gasoline itself, not the price at the pump. Each time I've done this the
> >> difference between the US and europe isn't very big.
>
> > Why would a consumer of gasoline not compare pump prices?
>
> I suppose if he doesn't care who/what is stealing from him he wouldn't
> look any further than the pump price.

Maybe he prefers the govt to steal from his gas tank rather than
confiscate from his pay check.


> People notice the tax differences
> on other goods where the tax isn't rolled into the price and go to lower
> tax territories to make their purchases.

People tend to not do that when gas is $8/gal


> People are attracted to buy
> gasoline in other states and counties nearby because of a lower tax
> rate, most seem to understand it's a tax difference locally but have
> difficulty grasping it when the two locations are far from each other.

Some people tend to arrange their life to need less fuel consumption.

-jim