'04 Suzuki Forenza interior fumes

Hey All,

I have a 2004 Suzuki Forenza, 5spd with ~45k miles. Over the last two
weeks I have noticed exhaust fumes in the passenger compartment during
this scenario:

-Blower is on
-Car is stopped for more than 3-5 seconds
-Only when car is fully warmed up
-Hot/Cold temperature selector doesn't matter
-recirc solves the problem completely

-What I had done:
-removed leaves and debris from intake between hood and windshield
-checked exhaust manifold for cracks
-checked exhaust pipe connections to cat for any leaks and/or soot
-Looked (the best I could) for vacuum lines or something that might
have become disconnected
-Checked PCV

Does anyone have any other idea what could cause this all of a sudden
and only when the vehicle is completely warmed up? This car does do
most trips between 1 and 3 miles, stop and go in the Denver area. On
another note, I had 10 gals of fuel that was 1 year old with a double
dose of stabil in it. I change it out annually and usually put it in
my truck. Truck was full so I put it in this car. I can't remember
if the fumes started after that or not but it seems it might have been
around the same time. Could that cause the problem? Car is down to
1/2 tank and I figure when it gets to 1/4, I'll put in fresh fuel.

TIA,

Derek

"genius" > wrote in message
...
> Hey All,
>
> I have a 2004 Suzuki Forenza, 5spd with ~45k miles. Over the last two
> weeks I have noticed exhaust fumes in the passenger compartment during
> this scenario:
>
> -Blower is on
> -Car is stopped for more than 3-5 seconds
> -Only when car is fully warmed up
> -Hot/Cold temperature selector doesn't matter
> -recirc solves the problem completely
>
> -What I had done:
> -removed leaves and debris from intake between hood and windshield
> -checked exhaust manifold for cracks
> -checked exhaust pipe connections to cat for any leaks and/or soot
> -Looked (the best I could) for vacuum lines or something that might
> have become disconnected
> -Checked PCV
>
> Does anyone have any other idea what could cause this all of a sudden
> and only when the vehicle is completely warmed up? This car does do
> most trips between 1 and 3 miles, stop and go in the Denver area. On
> another note, I had 10 gals of fuel that was 1 year old with a double
> dose of stabil in it. I change it out annually and usually put it in
> my truck. Truck was full so I put it in this car. I can't remember
> if the fumes started after that or not but it seems it might have been
> around the same time. Could that cause the problem? Car is down to
> 1/2 tank and I figure when it gets to 1/4, I'll put in fresh fuel.
>
> TIA,
>
> Derek

I dont think the Stabil has anything whatsoever to do with your problem.
Those types of formulations are antioxidants, and are used in relatively
small concentrations. They burn relatively cleanly.

The situation you describe sounds like you have a leak somewhere externally,
and that when you stop the fumes get drawn into the car.

If it is really exhaust fumes you smell, there has to be a leak in the
exhaust
system somewhere EVEN toward the back of the exhaust pipe as it tries
to exit from under the car. My first advice is to get the car to a muffler
shop
or up on a life and look much closer.

Might it be that you are dripping a little bit of oil onto the exhaust
manifold or
exhaust pipe from, say, a seeping valve cover gasket? That creates noxious
smells, but is different from an exhaust leak.

Let us know what you find, but be sure and dont let this drop. Fumes like
this
can kill you.

On Nov 6, 12:53*pm, "hls" > wrote:
> "genius" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hey All,
>
> > I have a 2004 Suzuki Forenza, 5spd with ~45k miles. *Over the last two
> > weeks I have noticed exhaust fumes in the passenger compartment during
> > this scenario:
>
> > -Blower is on
> > -Car is stopped for more than 3-5 seconds
> > -Only when car is fully warmed up
> > -Hot/Cold temperature selector doesn't matter
> > -recirc solves the problem completely
>
> > -What I had done:
> > -removed leaves and debris from intake between hood and windshield
> > -checked exhaust manifold for cracks
> > -checked exhaust pipe connections to cat for any leaks and/or soot
> > -Looked (the best I could) for vacuum lines or something that might
> > have become disconnected
> > -Checked PCV
>
> > Does anyone have any other idea what could cause this all of a sudden
> > and only when the vehicle is completely warmed up? *This car does do
> > most trips between 1 and 3 miles, stop and go in the Denver area. *On
> > another note, I had 10 gals of fuel that was 1 year old with a double
> > dose of stabil in it. *I change it out annually and usually put it in
> > my truck. *Truck was full so I put it in this car. *I can't remember
> > if the fumes started after that or not but it seems it might have been
> > around the same time. *Could that cause the problem? *Car is down to
> > 1/2 tank and I figure when it gets to 1/4, I'll put in fresh fuel.
>
> > TIA,
>
> > Derek
>
> I dont think the Stabil has anything whatsoever to do with your problem.
> Those types of formulations are antioxidants, and are used in relatively
> small concentrations. *They burn relatively cleanly.
>
> The situation you describe sounds like you have a leak somewhere externally,
> and that when you stop the fumes get drawn into the car.
>
> If it is really exhaust fumes you smell, there has to be a leak in the
> exhaust
> system somewhere EVEN toward the back of the exhaust pipe as it tries
> to exit from under the car. * My first advice is to get the car to a muffler
> shop
> or up on a life and look much closer.
>
> Might it be that you are dripping a little bit of oil onto the exhaust
> manifold or
> exhaust pipe from, say, a seeping valve cover gasket? *That creates noxious
> smells, but is different from an exhaust leak.
>
> Let us know what you find, but be sure and dont let this drop. *Fumes like
> this
> can kill you.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for the info. It's strange since I can feel the air getting
sucked in the intake in front of the dirver between windshield and
hood but there's no smell there. I guess this weekend, I'll get it up
in the air and take a look at the rest of the exhaust. So far I only
looked at what I could see laying on the gorund. The oil pan is
slightly damp but there's no drips or any real oil leak and I know
what oil on the manifold smells like. This smells different. Thanks
for the help.

"genius" > wrote in message
news:ee599c8e-5f06-42e2-910b-
Thanks for the info. It's strange since I can feel the air getting
sucked in the intake in front of the dirver between windshield and
hood but there's no smell there. I guess this weekend, I'll get it up
in the air and take a look at the rest of the exhaust. So far I only
looked at what I could see laying on the gorund. The oil pan is
slightly damp but there's no drips or any real oil leak and I know
what oil on the manifold smells like. This smells different. Thanks
for the help.

************Air sucked in at the cowling would normally dilute
any exhaust fumes on the exterior of the car so that they might not
be even noticeable.

I have noted many times that even small leaks, sometimes as far
back as the resonator muffler, or where an exhaust tip has rotted
off, can cause fumes to come inside the car.

Agreed, oil on a manifold or exhaust pipe has a smell which is easily
distinguished
by most people from exhaust fumes.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

I finally gave up and took the car to my local mechanic. He knew what
it was immediately and for $88, the smell is now gone. I guess on the
back side of the engine, under the intake there's a plastic crankcase
vent hose that had cracked. It wasn't exhaust fumes I was smelling
but it was crankcase fumes. This required removal of the valve cover
and a new hose. All seems well now and thank to all that tried to
help.

D

genius wrote:
> Hey All,
>
> I have a 2004 Suzuki Forenza, 5spd with ~45k miles. Over the last two
> weeks I have noticed exhaust fumes in the passenger compartment during
> this scenario:
>
> -Blower is on
> -Car is stopped for more than 3-5 seconds
> -Only when car is fully warmed up
> -Hot/Cold temperature selector doesn't matter
> -recirc solves the problem completely
>
> -What I had done:
> -removed leaves and debris from intake between hood and windshield
> -checked exhaust manifold for cracks
> -checked exhaust pipe connections to cat for any leaks and/or soot
> -Looked (the best I could) for vacuum lines or something that might
> have become disconnected
> -Checked PCV
>
> Does anyone have any other idea what could cause this all of a sudden
> and only when the vehicle is completely warmed up? This car does do
> most trips between 1 and 3 miles, stop and go in the Denver area. On
> another note, I had 10 gals of fuel that was 1 year old with a double
> dose of stabil in it. I change it out annually and usually put it in
> my truck. Truck was full so I put it in this car. I can't remember
> if the fumes started after that or not but it seems it might have been
> around the same time. Could that cause the problem? Car is down to
> 1/2 tank and I figure when it gets to 1/4, I'll put in fresh fuel.
>
> TIA,
>
> Derek

On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:17:00 -0800 (PST), genius >
wrote:

>I finally gave up and took the car to my local mechanic. He knew what
>it was immediately and for $88, the smell is now gone. I guess on the
>back side of the engine, under the intake there's a plastic crankcase
>vent hose that had cracked. It wasn't exhaust fumes I was smelling
>but it was crankcase fumes. This required removal of the valve cover
>and a new hose. All seems well now and thank to all that tried to
>help.
>
Sounds like you've got a good mech.
Sometimes that works out best.
Crankcase fumes are blowby, so there's not much difference from
exhaust. Worse probably.
Dumped a VW 1600 mostly because I could never properly seal the engine
hatch from leaking crankcase fume. Bad stuff to my nose.
Made me hate that car.

--Vic

On Dec 8, 8:45 pm, Vic Smith > wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:17:00 -0800 (PST), genius >
> wrote:
>
> >I finally gave up and took the car to my local mechanic. He knew what
> >it was immediately and for $88, the smell is now gone. I guess on the
> >back side of the engine, under the intake there's a plastic crankcase
> >vent hose that had cracked. It wasn't exhaust fumes I was smelling
> >but it was crankcase fumes. This required removal of the valve cover
> >and a new hose. All seems well now and thank to all that tried to
> >help.
>
> Sounds like you've got a good mech.
> Sometimes that works out best.
> Crankcase fumes are blowby, so there's not much difference from
> exhaust. Worse probably.
> Dumped a VW 1600 mostly because I could never properly seal the engine
> hatch from leaking crankcase fume. Bad stuff to my nose.
> Made me hate that car.
>
> --Vic

Yeah, he's a really good mech. Still can't believe I didn't see that
but it's so cold I only looked from the top, not underneath. The
crankcase fumes are worse than exhaust I think. Within 15 secs,
stopped at a light, my eyes watered and lungs felt like they were on
fire. It sucks to roll the windows down in -10 degrees.

genius wrote:
>
> Yeah, he's a really good mech. Still can't believe I didn't see that
> but it's so cold I only looked from the top, not underneath. The
> crankcase fumes are worse than exhaust I think. Within 15 secs,
> stopped at a light, my eyes watered and lungs felt like they were on
> fire. It sucks to roll the windows down in -10 degrees.

My 70's Ford Capri had a peculiar problem where exhaust would be sucked
into the interior. This was a common problem with the model and was
caused by a leaky trunk lid gasket. Most of the time we'd just drive
with the windows open but it was just awful if it was cold or rainy and
we wanted the windows up. Oddly enough, another common problem with the
cars was that the back seat vent windows had a tendency to fall out so
that helped a little. :-)

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:35:53 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

>genius wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, he's a really good mech. Still can't believe I didn't see that
>> but it's so cold I only looked from the top, not underneath. The
>> crankcase fumes are worse than exhaust I think. Within 15 secs,
>> stopped at a light, my eyes watered and lungs felt like they were on
>> fire. It sucks to roll the windows down in -10 degrees.
>
>My 70's Ford Capri had a peculiar problem where exhaust would be sucked
>into the interior. This was a common problem with the model and was
>caused by a leaky trunk lid gasket. Most of the time we'd just drive
>with the windows open but it was just awful if it was cold or rainy and
>we wanted the windows up. Oddly enough, another common problem with the
>cars was that the back seat vent windows had a tendency to fall out so
>that helped a little. :-)

My brother had one of those. Was it German?
Shift cable froze up requiring a new one. Twice.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:35:53 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
>> genius wrote:
>>> Yeah, he's a really good mech. Still can't believe I didn't see that
>>> but it's so cold I only looked from the top, not underneath. The
>>> crankcase fumes are worse than exhaust I think. Within 15 secs,
>>> stopped at a light, my eyes watered and lungs felt like they were on
>>> fire. It sucks to roll the windows down in -10 degrees.
>> My 70's Ford Capri had a peculiar problem where exhaust would be sucked
>> into the interior. This was a common problem with the model and was
>> caused by a leaky trunk lid gasket. Most of the time we'd just drive
>> with the windows open but it was just awful if it was cold or rainy and
>> we wanted the windows up. Oddly enough, another common problem with the
>> cars was that the back seat vent windows had a tendency to fall out so
>> that helped a little. :-)
>
> My brother had one of those. Was it German?
> Shift cable froze up requiring a new one. Twice.

Yes it was German. Too bad it wasn't made with better materials that
didn't fall off or fail or freeze up or rust away - other than that, it
was a pretty good car. :-)

>
> --Vic