Saturns Suck!

Jonnie Santos wrote:
> If the turn signal thing is an oddity (is an isolated issue), then my 2 cent
> opinion says to pursue the repair up the chain of command coolly and
> methodically and consider it the exception and not the rule. I wouldn't
> wipe Saturn out as a potential supplier for personal transportation on this
> signal issue.

I have to agree. It sounds like you've had a great relationship with
Saturn. It'd be sad to throw it all away over what should be a minor
issue, which should have been fixed already.

Please ignore me if you were already aware of this, but the "problem"
with the double-time blinking rear signal is directly related to the
problem with the front signal. I say problem in quotes because the fast
blinking is actually a feature (in the relay, I believe) to let you know
that you have a turn signal burned out. So, fix the front and the rear
will take care of itself.


-rj

In article >,
says...
> Blah blah > wrote in message >...
> > Sounds like you curbed that Saturn good.
> >
> > The thing that ticks me off is these people will come in here to vent
> > about how much they hate Saturn but they never came in here before for
> > help. Those kinds of people dont deserve a forum to rant on. They expect
> > GM or Saturn to hold their hand for their entire ownership of the car.
> > Sooner or later the "Owner" is responsible for maintaining the car. The
> > message from Jason Sacks is the kind of people we need more of. People
> > willing to ask good questions, not raise hell at the last sign of
> > trouble.
> >
> Well, that's nice of you to say, but I was really looking for
> background information so I would be knowledgeable when talking to the
> dealer about my problem. The fact is that my turn signal has almost
> never worked on my Ion - maybe for 1000 of the 24,000 miles I've put
> on the car - and this is certainly in no way shape or form something
> I'm liable or responsible for.

No you're not responsible for "this" and there is a fix for it but your
dealership doesnt seem to me up to par on it. Your cars still under
warranty so just make sure it gets taken care of.

> This may sound like raising hell, but due to this problem I won't buy
> another Saturn. And I'm a Saturn loyalist - my wife and I have owned
> three SL2s, an SL1, a VUE (which my wife lives) and my Ion (which I
> really dislike, for other reasons along with the turn signal problem).
> That's six cars, each of which we've bought new, in about ten years.
> And our business will be going away.

One car out of six changes your opinion?

> My car's at the dealer now, as they try once again to repair this
> problem. When I go back this afternoon I'm going to get some addresses
> from the dealer and mail letters saying what I said above.
>
> Saturns have always been cars in which the details were attended to,
> like you would expect from a car selling for a much higher price. That
> to me was the key factor, along with their sales approach, that
> seperated Saturns from other GM cars. This experience has shown me
> that that approach is no longer the case, at least for their lower-end
> cars. I was looking forward to a long relationship with Saturn - they
> do a lot to make the experience positive - but now I feel I can get as
> much value and satisfaction from another car as well. All because my
> damn turn signal doesn't work.

Has your dealership changed ownership recently? Is there another Saturn
dealership close enough for you to try? These kinds of problems come and
go throughout the car industry. Good cars/dealerships go bad, bad ones
get good, etc etc.

"Blah blah" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> Has your dealership changed ownership recently? Is there another
Saturn
> dealership close enough for you to try? These kinds of problems come
and
> go throughout the car industry. Good cars/dealerships go bad, bad
ones
> get good, etc etc.

Ha ha or as in my case the Saturn of Albany opened Saturn of Clifton
Park so it the service is terrible at the one you can be damn sure it
will be bad in the Clifton Park location as well. [ The Otto Group ]
owns both of them and a few other dealerships also known for bad
service.

Elector

>
> > This may sound like raising hell, but due to this problem I won't buy
> > another Saturn. And I'm a Saturn loyalist - my wife and I have owned
> > three SL2s, an SL1, a VUE (which my wife lives) and my Ion (which I
> > really dislike, for other reasons along with the turn signal problem).
> > That's six cars, each of which we've bought new, in about ten years.
> > And our business will be going away.
>
> One car out of six changes your opinion?
>
That's a good question. I was definitely irrational in the level of
anger I felt and continue to feel about this turn signal issue, but no
it's not the only reason that I'm going to move away from buying
Saturns.

I bought my Ion due to the car I had before it. I had leased my
previous car, an SL2, during the big leasing boom in 1999, and my
lease was due to expire. I was receiving mail almost weekly telling me
to come in to my local dealer, who would let me out of my lease early
and into a new car. Since I had heard horror stories about people
paying exorbitant fees on lease returns, I was anxious to get that
weight off my shoulders and also have a new car.

I was told that the Ion was the new version of the SL2, test drove it
and liked it, and happily ended up buying it. Within 1000 miles I
noticed some small but irritating problems: the turn signal problem,
the radio would sometimes for no apparent reason get very staticky (a
problem that spontaneously went away), the car seemed to have a lot of
road noise, and the engine seemed to idle loud. Still, I was happy
enough with the other features of the car - fun styling, a deep trunk,
the offset dash, good power on the freeways - that I didn't exercise
my return privileges.

Within the first 1000 miles of owning the car, I began having problems
with my turn signal. I went to two different dealers several times in
the first few months of owning the car to get the turn signal issue
dealt with; both times it was kind of a hassle. The first time I was
given a bulb and it was explained to me how to change it; the second
time at a different dealer, I stopped by, requested they change it,
and ended up sitting for an hour and a half waiting for this repair.
Granted it was a Saturday afternoon and I didn't have an appointment,
but regardless I decided the issue was just not worth the hassle, that
I would just live with having a car with no turn signal.

Finally, after a near-miss accident one day when merging on the
freeway, I decided to ask for this to be fixed. Yesterday was the
third and hopefully final fix necessary to get this working but
frankly I have no faith that the problem won't come back.

The signal light problem isn't the only reason this will be my last
Saturn. The service I received will also be a reason - everyone has
been friendly and professional, but it took forever to get this
resolved. There are a ton of other reasons: I'd like to drive a
hybrid, not just due to high fuel costs but because cars are bad for
the environment; the car interior is too loud; my kids are almost
teenagers and the back seat gets crammed with three kids in the back;
wish for something different to drive; even the fact that the dealer's
waiting room is cold and uncomfortable.

I didn't mean to write a whole dissertation on this, but clearly I
felt the need to really vent. Thanks.

Jason Sacks > wrote:
> Finally, after a near-miss accident one day when merging on the
> freeway, I decided to ask for this to be fixed. Yesterday was the
> third and hopefully final fix necessary to get this working but
> frankly I have no faith that the problem won't come back.

If it does, familiarize yourself with any Lemon Laws applicable
in your state, and then bring them up the next time you have
the car in for service. You may scare your dealer into fixing
it RIGHT this time.

> I didn't mean to write a whole dissertation on this, but clearly I
> felt the need to really vent. Thanks.

No problem. Saturn ceased being a different kind of car
company some time back, and I won't be replacing my SW2 with
another Saturn when it finally dies. I needed a second car
about a year ago, but Saturn wouldn't combine the options I
wanted on the same car even though both were available
separately on the same model (manual transmission and AWD)
so Subaru got my business.

-DanD

--
# Dan Duncan (kd4igw) http://pcisys.net/~dand
# "Remote neural rape is an act of war. NSA, Air Farce are the enemies.
# Place the blame where it belongs." A sign I saw on the way to work 6/19/2000

In article >,
says...
> Jason Sacks > wrote:
> > Finally, after a near-miss accident one day when merging on the
> > freeway, I decided to ask for this to be fixed. Yesterday was the
> > third and hopefully final fix necessary to get this working but
> > frankly I have no faith that the problem won't come back.
>
> If it does, familiarize yourself with any Lemon Laws applicable
> in your state, and then bring them up the next time you have
> the car in for service. You may scare your dealer into fixing
> it RIGHT this time.
>
> > I didn't mean to write a whole dissertation on this, but clearly I
> > felt the need to really vent. Thanks.
>
> No problem. Saturn ceased being a different kind of car
> company some time back, and I won't be replacing my SW2 with
> another Saturn when it finally dies. I needed a second car
> about a year ago, but Saturn wouldn't combine the options I
> wanted on the same car even though both were available
> separately on the same model (manual transmission and AWD)

They cant put those two together (awd + manual) because those two
transmissons are completely different! Do you expect them to re-engineer
the entire transmission? There is no prevision on a manual for a rear
drive shaft...

> so Subaru got my business.

Not sure about 2003 or 2004 stats but you do know that Subaru is ranked
below Saturn right? Incase some of you dont know European auto makes are
falling way behind American makes in build quality and reliability Heck
autozone doesnt even have rotors for a 2003 Forester which is what I'm
guessing you bought over a Vue. Best price for a front rotor at
AdvanceAutoParts for a Vue is 34 bucks. For a Forester 63 bucks. Hope
you enjoy the additional cost that comes from that Subaru... Though I
cant defend much of Saturns stuff since they outsource so many things.

IMO awd is overrated and kills fuel economy and increases repair cost.
Best avoided and substituted with traction control.

Blah blah > wrote:
> They cant put those two together (awd + manual) because those two
> transmissons are completely different! Do you expect them to re-engineer
> the entire transmission? There is no prevision on a manual for a rear
> drive shaft...

And their failure to offer the combination I want cost them my business.

> Not sure about 2003 or 2004 stats but you do know that Subaru is ranked
> below Saturn right?

It depends on what rank you're talking about. In offering the
vehicle I wanted, Subaru ranked higher. In side impact crash
testing for 2003 Vue vs. 2003 Forester, Subaru ranked higher.

> Incase some of you dont know European auto makes are
> falling way behind American makes in build quality and reliability

Yeah, that cvt transmission in the 2003 Vue was a real piece of quality.

> Heck autozone doesnt even have rotors for a 2003 Forester which is what I'm
> guessing you bought over a Vue. Best price for a front rotor at
> AdvanceAutoParts for a Vue is 34 bucks. For a Forester 63 bucks. Hope
> you enjoy the additional cost that comes from that Subaru...

I'm willing to pay more to get what I want.

Many people are.

Saturn should learn from that.

> IMO awd is overrated and kills fuel economy and increases repair cost.
> Best avoided and substituted with traction control.

I have traction control on my 1998 SW2. It doesn't handle as well as
the AWD on my Forester for my 140 mile daily round trip commute over
a continental divide in the Rocky Mountains where snow can come out
of nowhere. It snowed as recently as 2 weeks ago.

-DanD

--
# Dan Duncan (kd4igw) http://pcisys.net/~dand
# "Feet are assumed to be 11 inches long to be conservative."
# From the "tar" manpage, Digital Unix 4.0b.

>Dennis Hamilton

>At
>60,000 miles that transmission went. Saturn graciously agreed that their
>transmission should last for more than 60,000 miles and replaced the tranny
>($600) if I paid the labor ($800).

What part in the trans failed ? Automatic or stick? Neither of them cost $600
for the enitre unit (new).

>Saturn should
>get back to school and learn how to designand build dependable cars.
>

Actually they build lots of them. There are a whole lot of people on this board
who are very happy with theirs.