How did I do? I bought a new car for my niece

Big Bill wrote:
> On 15 Mar 2005 08:20:28 -0800, "moneymouth" >
> wrote:
>
> >And what kinda car do you own? A Rice Burner? We buy American made
> >cars in America. I lost my job because people like you stopped
buying
> >American Made. I support myself and my country's jobs. So buy
American.
>
> So Hondas are OK?

.... and Nissans, and Subarus, and Mazdas. Hey, don't forget the
Germans! You could get a 'Good Ole Boy'-built BMW or Benz, too!
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:27:23 -0500, "Cory Dunkle" >
wrote:

>"moneymouth" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> And what kinda car do you own? A Rice Burner? We buy American made
>> cars in America. I lost my job because people like you stopped buying
>> American Made. I support myself and my country's jobs. So buy American.
>
>Many (even most) of the components in modern "American" cars are not
>american made, or American designed. The things that are american made (some
>foreign cars) all the money goes back overseas.

All those workers are forced to send their paychecks overseas? I
didn't know that.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

>
> 20/25 MPG? That's not bad at all, especially for a vehicle that is
> relatively tall. From what I hear those little 6 banger Escapes are
> reasonable quick too.
>

How about 31 Highway and 36 City? Yup, gets better mileage in the City, if
you buy the hybrid version. That's because slow speed driving is electric
only. -Dave

"Dave C." > wrote in message
link.net...
> >
> > 20/25 MPG? That's not bad at all, especially for a vehicle that is
> > relatively tall. From what I hear those little 6 banger Escapes are
> > reasonable quick too.
> >
>
> How about 31 Highway and 36 City? Yup, gets better mileage in the City,
if
> you buy the hybrid version. That's because slow speed driving is electric
> only. -Dave

Okay, higher city makes sense but where is the extra 6 highway MPG coming
from? Does the hybrid version have a smaller motor? If that is the case
perhaps taht was a big part of the reason to not buy the hybrid version.

You have ignored the rest of my post though... What about the initial cost
of the hybrid vs the money saved in fuel? When does it pay for itself in
fuel savings? How long until the batteries must be replaced (7-10 years
seems to be what they are estimated to last) and how much do they cost to
replace (I've read $5,000-$10,000 for various models of hybrids)? After the
hybrid feature has paid for itself, will it save enough money over the rest
of the years before the batteries need to be replaced to pay for battery
replacement and still save you money? I have a feeling it probably does not
save that much money unless perhaps you are a cab driver in the city, and
that would be assuming the batteries would alst 7-10 years with such heavy
usage (constant discharge/charge).

Cory

"Big Bill" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:27:23 -0500, "Cory Dunkle" >
> wrote:
>
> >"moneymouth" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >> And what kinda car do you own? A Rice Burner? We buy American made
> >> cars in America. I lost my job because people like you stopped buying
> >> American Made. I support myself and my country's jobs. So buy
American.
> >
> >Many (even most) of the components in modern "American" cars are not
> >american made, or American designed. The things that are american made
(some
> >foreign cars) all the money goes back overseas.
>
> All those workers are forced to send their paychecks overseas? I
> didn't know that.

You seem to have missed the point entirely...

Do you think the executives at Toyota or Honda give all the profits to the
assembly line workers who put the foreign parts together at an American
factory? Heck no, all the profits go overseas to the company. The executive
and engineers make the big bucks, and other funds are re-invested in the
company. Obviously payroll expenses for assembly line workers in America go
to those workers. So sure some foreign cars are assembled by Americans
working in America [with foreign parts, made in various foreign countries],
but all the profits from selling that car go overseas (the foreign company
overseas and the people working for the company overseas).

Similar deal for American brands... Most of the work is outsourced to other
countries, where labor is cheaper. The cars may be assembled here (not
always the case) but most of the parts are either foreign of another brand
(corporate alliances) or are made/assembled in foreign countries by foreign
workers. So maybe the car is assembled in America, but it certainly is not
_made_ in America. Much (most?) of the labor is done overseas, taking jobs
from the American market. The upside is that the profits go to an American
company and American executives and engineers (mostly, again the whole
foreign outsourcing and corporate alliance thing). The downside of the
upside, so to speak, is that the profits are reinvested in foreign labor.
This creates more jobs, or even better jobs, in foreign countries where
labor is cheaper, but does not help the American economy.

I apologize, Bill, if I was unclear in my original post. I hope this
clarifies it a bit for you.

Cory

"Scott in the ArkLaTex" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:27:23 -0500, "Cory Dunkle" >
> wrote:
>
> >American cars were great until the '80s
>
> I realize this is your opinion, but I don't see how you can say that.
>
> American cars began to decline in the late 60s, when manufacturers
> began to cut corners. You know those little vent windows that many
> cars used to have? Gone by 1969 to save a few dollars per car. Then
> the Arab Oil Embargo hit, and Detroit began giving us **** like the
> Chevy Vega and the Ford Pinto. Then it was tougher clean air standards
> that required catalitic converters and detuned engines. It was all
> downhill from there until the early 90s, when quality and performance
> finally begfan to improve.

Yeah, I was mistaken with my sattement. What I meant was that it was in the
'80s that American cars hit rock bottom. Most cars were little 4 bangers
with pitiful power numbers, the larger engines made the same power or less
than the small motors made decades ago. Quality was very low, reliability
was a problem. I don't speak for all models of cars, but for many, even
most, the '80s was where things seemed to be worst (from my observations at
least). Personally I wouldn't buy anything newer than about '73.

Cory

"Cory Dunkle" > wrote
> "Dave C." > wrote
>> How about 31 Highway and 36 City? Yup, gets better mileage in the City,
> if
>> you buy the hybrid version. That's because slow speed driving is
>> electric
>> only. -Dave
>
> Okay, higher city makes sense but where is the extra 6 highway MPG coming
> from? Does the hybrid version have a smaller motor? If that is the case
> perhaps taht was a big part of the reason to not buy the hybrid version.

It has a 2.3L 4-cylinder.

Floyd

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:38:42 -0500, "Cory Dunkle" >
wrote:

>"Big Bill" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:27:23 -0500, "Cory Dunkle" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >"moneymouth" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >> And what kinda car do you own? A Rice Burner? We buy American made
>> >> cars in America. I lost my job because people like you stopped buying
>> >> American Made. I support myself and my country's jobs. So buy
>American.
>> >
>> >Many (even most) of the components in modern "American" cars are not
>> >american made, or American designed. The things that are american made
>(some
>> >foreign cars) all the money goes back overseas.
>>
>> All those workers are forced to send their paychecks overseas? I
>> didn't know that.
>
>You seem to have missed the point entirely...

I may have missed the point, but only because you didn't make it.
" all the money goes back overseas" doesn't mean profits, does it?
No, it means what it says: "all the money". That *includes* profits,
but it doesn'ty limit itself to profits.
Making a point requires you to actually make it.
>
>Do you think the executives at Toyota or Honda give all the profits to the
>assembly line workers who put the foreign parts together at an American
>factory? Heck no, all the profits go overseas to the company. The executive
>and engineers make the big bucks, and other funds are re-invested in the
>company. Obviously payroll expenses for assembly line workers in America go
>to those workers. So sure some foreign cars are assembled by Americans
>working in America [with foreign parts, made in various foreign countries],
>but all the profits from selling that car go overseas (the foreign company
>overseas and the people working for the company overseas).
>
>Similar deal for American brands... Most of the work is outsourced to other
>countries, where labor is cheaper. The cars may be assembled here (not
>always the case) but most of the parts are either foreign of another brand
>(corporate alliances) or are made/assembled in foreign countries by foreign
>workers. So maybe the car is assembled in America, but it certainly is not
>_made_ in America. Much (most?) of the labor is done overseas, taking jobs
>from the American market. The upside is that the profits go to an American
>company and American executives and engineers (mostly, again the whole
>foreign outsourcing and corporate alliance thing). The downside of the
>upside, so to speak, is that the profits are reinvested in foreign labor.
>This creates more jobs, or even better jobs, in foreign countries where
>labor is cheaper, but does not help the American economy.
>
>I apologize, Bill, if I was unclear in my original post. I hope this
>clarifies it a bit for you.

Thank you.
>
> Cory
>

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

> >
> > How about 31 Highway and 36 City? Yup, gets better mileage in the City,
> if
> > you buy the hybrid version. That's because slow speed driving is
electric
> > only. -Dave
>
> Okay, higher city makes sense but where is the extra 6 highway MPG coming
> from? Does the hybrid version have a smaller motor? If that is the case
> perhaps taht was a big part of the reason to not buy the hybrid version.
>
> You have ignored the rest of my post though... What about the initial cost
> of the hybrid vs the money saved in fuel? When does it pay for itself in
> fuel savings? How long until the batteries must be replaced (7-10 years
> seems to be what they are estimated to last) and how much do they cost to
> replace (I've read $5,000-$10,000 for various models of hybrids)? After
the
> hybrid feature has paid for itself, will it save enough money over the
rest
> of the years before the batteries need to be replaced to pay for battery
> replacement and still save you money?

Those are good questions. My guess . . . it depends on how much you drive
it, and how high the cost of gas rises. I wouldn't be surprised to see gas
at $5/gallon in the U.S. SOON. At that rate, even drivers with short
commutes might come out ahead in the long run, even after buying a
replacement battery. -Dave

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:38:42 -0500, "Cory Dunkle" >
wrote:

>You seem to have missed the point entirely...
>
>Do you think the executives at Toyota or Honda give all the profits to the
>assembly line workers who put the foreign parts together at an American
>factory? Heck no, all the profits go overseas to the company. The executive

Cory you are smarter than this, and I am ashamed that you seem to have
fallen for this bull****.

Do you believe that GM and Ford give their profits to Americans? Do
you think they just write checks to whoever in America wants or needs
money? No. The profits go to - oh my - the stock holders.

Now, where do you think the profits made by Honda and Toyota go?
That's right, the stockholders.

Now to your point of reinvesting in the factories, well Honda and
Toyota make vehicles here, while GM and Ford make most of their ****
in Mexico and Canada. Honda actually exports more vehicles to Japan
than they import.

So very simple, the only reason to pick Ford or GM over Honda or
Toyota is because you prefer a car made outside this country. It sure
as hell isn't quality. If you really want to buy domestic, buy Honda.