2001 2.7 Intrepid...a deal?

I've noted the Chrysler/Daimler/Toyota/VW oil sludging imbroglio since
it started showing up in the press, and have noted that it further
depressed prices on 2.7-equipped LH cars to the point to where many
seem like pretty good deals for someone with some mechanical smarts.
Case in point: An elderly lady down the street owns an Intrepid with
the 2.7 with only 30K miles, and her kids got ahold of the "sludge"
story and are pestering her to dump it ASAP. She told me this
morning, "My son says the engine is going to fall out of it soon."
Thus, she said she wants to see what a dealer will offer her on
trade-in, and I'm sure it won't be much.

This car is almost showroom, in and out, and has been dealer serviced
since new (NOT that this is necessarily a good thing!) and she has had
biannual oil changes since she bought the car in summer of '01. The
door sticker says it's been using Pennzoil 10W-30, probably since the
first dealer service, and there's a shiny Mopar oil filter on the
engine.

I offered to beat the dealer's trade-in and pay cash, and she said
she'd consider the offer. I'm looking to retire the old "grocery
getter" Honda early next year, and I want to park the M-body in the
garage for road trips only to keep the mileage low.

Question: With synthetic and reasonable change intervals, I don't
fear the sludge issue at all, but is there anything that I should be
aware of other than that, other than TCM reflashing to eliminate the
"bump" shift? She claims the car gets 20-21 around town. I followed
Putney's sage advice about inspecting the PCV hose, and I found it to
be reasonably clean. Fingering the inside of it showed basically
amber oil with a slight amount of carbonization. It does have the
heat exchanger mod on it, as well...about as strange an idea as I've
seen in awhile, but it appears to do the job.

I see these cars for sale all the time for less than low book, with
very few going for high book anywhere. Aside from the usual
LH-related problems that have been covered in here elsewhere, any
caveats about this engine in particular? I found the power to be more
than adequate for me and there were no outstanding codes.

DeserTBoB wrote:
> I've noted the Chrysler/Daimler/Toyota/VW oil sludging imbroglio since
> it started showing up in the press, and have noted that it further
> depressed prices on 2.7-equipped LH cars to the point to where many
> seem like pretty good deals for someone with some mechanical smarts.
> Case in point: An elderly lady down the street owns an Intrepid with
> the 2.7 with only 30K miles, and her kids got ahold of the "sludge"
> story and are pestering her to dump it ASAP. She told me this
> morning, "My son says the engine is going to fall out of it soon."
> Thus, she said she wants to see what a dealer will offer her on
> trade-in, and I'm sure it won't be much.
>
> This car is almost showroom, in and out, and has been dealer serviced
> since new (NOT that this is necessarily a good thing!) and she has had
> biannual oil changes since she bought the car in summer of '01. The
> door sticker says it's been using Pennzoil 10W-30, probably since the
> first dealer service, and there's a shiny Mopar oil filter on the
> engine.
>
> I offered to beat the dealer's trade-in and pay cash, and she said
> she'd consider the offer. I'm looking to retire the old "grocery
> getter" Honda early next year, and I want to park the M-body in the
> garage for road trips only to keep the mileage low.
>
> Question: With synthetic and reasonable change intervals, I don't
> fear the sludge issue at all, but is there anything that I should be
> aware of other than that, other than TCM reflashing to eliminate the
> "bump" shift? She claims the car gets 20-21 around town. I followed
> Putney's sage advice about inspecting the PCV hose, and I found it to
> be reasonably clean. Fingering the inside of it showed basically
> amber oil with a slight amount of carbonization. It does have the
> heat exchanger mod on it, as well...about as strange an idea as I've
> seen in awhile, but it appears to do the job.
>
> I see these cars for sale all the time for less than low book, with
> very few going for high book anywhere. Aside from the usual
> LH-related problems that have been covered in here elsewhere, any
> caveats about this engine in particular? I found the power to be more
> than adequate for me and there were no outstanding codes.


well, you'd have to give the group the BUYING PRICE before we can
determine if it's a deal or not. Which makes us wonder, why you hid
the price offered.

besides, if you are so PRO-JAPANESE about cars, why are you now looking
to buy a BIG THREE- CHRYSLER product ?

Is this another BS story like you 1955 Lancer thread ?

most likely...because you're too ANTI-AMERICAN to buy a Chrysler.

but I hope you do buy it- because you'll have nothing but problems with
it- you're too stupid to just buy a GM already.

In article >,
DeserTBoB > wrote:

> Question: With synthetic and reasonable change intervals, I don't
> fear the sludge issue at all, but is there anything that I should be
> aware of other than that,
My wife's Sebring 2.7L 2001 at 35Kkms is clean as a whistle; well as
much as one can see in the fill access. No evidence of carbon at all. It
does get about 25% highway driving.
We were using Chryslers oil, but have just switched to Castrol.
Personally I can't see why one would sell (dump) a car with this engine
if the mileage is so low. There will be lots of life left and even if
the engine fails the body is worth something. IMO better to run it into
the ground.
We are keeping our Sebring. <

>other than TCM reflashing to eliminate the
> "bump" shift?
What's that. Our Sebring shifts very smoothly, except for the shift
in/out of park; a big bump!

>She claims the car gets 20-21 around town.
That about right. We get similar.

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:59:38 GMT, Some O > wrote:

>In article >,
> DeserTBoB > wrote:
>
>> Question: With synthetic and reasonable change intervals, I don't
>> fear the sludge issue at all, but is there anything that I should be
>> aware of other than that,
>My wife's Sebring 2.7L 2001 at 35Kkms is clean as a whistle; well as
>much as one can see in the fill access. No evidence of carbon at all. It
>does get about 25% highway driving.
>We were using Chryslers oil, but have just switched to Castrol.
>Personally I can't see why one would sell (dump) a car with this engine
>if the mileage is so low. There will be lots of life left and even if
>the engine fails the body is worth something. IMO better to run it into
>the ground.
>We are keeping our Sebring. <
>
>>other than TCM reflashing to eliminate the
>> "bump" shift?
>What's that. Our Sebring shifts very smoothly, except for the shift
>in/out of park; a big bump!
>
>>She claims the car gets 20-21 around town.
>That about right. We get similar. <snip>

Thanks for you input. I looked into this car's filler and see now
carbonization or gooey sludge anywhere, as this car has had oil
changes about every 3-5K miles, at 6 mos.

She hasn't decided on a new car yet, but I'm going to offer her above
whatever any dealer will give her...which can't be very much!

DC Dealer offered her $4900 trade on a new Stratus (which she doesn't
really need), so I offered $5000 cash. See below. Deal, or no deal?

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 12:25:40 -0700, DeserTBoB >
wrote:

>I've noted the Chrysler/Daimler/Toyota/VW oil sludging imbroglio since
>it started showing up in the press, and have noted that it further
>depressed prices on 2.7-equipped LH cars to the point to where many
>seem like pretty good deals for someone with some mechanical smarts.
>Case in point: An elderly lady down the street owns an Intrepid with
>the 2.7 with only 30K miles, and her kids got ahold of the "sludge"
>story and are pestering her to dump it ASAP. She told me this
>morning, "My son says the engine is going to fall out of it soon."
>Thus, she said she wants to see what a dealer will offer her on
>trade-in, and I'm sure it won't be much.
>
>This car is almost showroom, in and out, and has been dealer serviced
>since new (NOT that this is necessarily a good thing!) and she has had
>biannual oil changes since she bought the car in summer of '01. The
>door sticker says it's been using Pennzoil 10W-30, probably since the
>first dealer service, and there's a shiny Mopar oil filter on the
>engine.
>
>I offered to beat the dealer's trade-in and pay cash, and she said
>she'd consider the offer. I'm looking to retire the old "grocery
>getter" Honda early next year, and I want to park the M-body in the
>garage for road trips only to keep the mileage low.
>
>Question: With synthetic and reasonable change intervals, I don't
>fear the sludge issue at all, but is there anything that I should be
>aware of other than that, other than TCM reflashing to eliminate the
>"bump" shift? She claims the car gets 20-21 around town. I followed
>Putney's sage advice about inspecting the PCV hose, and I found it to
>be reasonably clean. Fingering the inside of it showed basically
>amber oil with a slight amount of carbonization. It does have the
>heat exchanger mod on it, as well...about as strange an idea as I've
>seen in awhile, but it appears to do the job.
>
>I see these cars for sale all the time for less than low book, with
>very few going for high book anywhere. Aside from the usual
>LH-related problems that have been covered in here elsewhere, any
>caveats about this engine in particular? I found the power to be more
>than adequate for me and there were no outstanding codes.

If she trades it in at the dealer, then the price usually comes off the top
of the negotiated price for the vehicle. The net result here is to reduce
the sales tax by the amount of the trade-in. In most states, this would be
more than $100, so I would say "no deal" to your generous offer.

Bob

"DeserTBoB" > wrote in message
news
> DC Dealer offered her $4900 trade on a new Stratus (which she doesn't
> really need), so I offered $5000 cash. See below. Deal, or no deal?
>
> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 12:25:40 -0700, DeserTBoB >
> wrote:
>
>>I've noted the Chrysler/Daimler/Toyota/VW oil sludging imbroglio since
>>it started showing up in the press, and have noted that it further
>>depressed prices on 2.7-equipped LH cars to the point to where many
>>seem like pretty good deals for someone with some mechanical smarts.
>>Case in point: An elderly lady down the street owns an Intrepid with
>>the 2.7 with only 30K miles, and her kids got ahold of the "sludge"
>>story and are pestering her to dump it ASAP. She told me this
>>morning, "My son says the engine is going to fall out of it soon."
>>Thus, she said she wants to see what a dealer will offer her on
>>trade-in, and I'm sure it won't be much.
>>
>>This car is almost showroom, in and out, and has been dealer serviced
>>since new (NOT that this is necessarily a good thing!) and she has had
>>biannual oil changes since she bought the car in summer of '01. The
>>door sticker says it's been using Pennzoil 10W-30, probably since the
>>first dealer service, and there's a shiny Mopar oil filter on the
>>engine.
>>
>>I offered to beat the dealer's trade-in and pay cash, and she said
>>she'd consider the offer. I'm looking to retire the old "grocery
>>getter" Honda early next year, and I want to park the M-body in the
>>garage for road trips only to keep the mileage low.
>>
>>Question: With synthetic and reasonable change intervals, I don't
>>fear the sludge issue at all, but is there anything that I should be
>>aware of other than that, other than TCM reflashing to eliminate the
>>"bump" shift? She claims the car gets 20-21 around town. I followed
>>Putney's sage advice about inspecting the PCV hose, and I found it to
>>be reasonably clean. Fingering the inside of it showed basically
>>amber oil with a slight amount of carbonization. It does have the
>>heat exchanger mod on it, as well...about as strange an idea as I've
>>seen in awhile, but it appears to do the job.
>>
>>I see these cars for sale all the time for less than low book, with
>>very few going for high book anywhere. Aside from the usual
>>LH-related problems that have been covered in here elsewhere, any
>>caveats about this engine in particular? I found the power to be more
>>than adequate for me and there were no outstanding codes.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 00:52:58 GMT, "Bob Shuman"
> wrote:

>If she trades it in at the dealer, then the price usually comes off the top
>of the negotiated price for the vehicle. The net result here is to reduce
>the sales tax by the amount of the trade-in. In most states, this would be
>more than $100, so I would say "no deal" to your generous offer. <snip>

The closer will probably try to dissuade her, but I note that 2.7L DC
products are a dime a dozen out here, due to the "sludge horror"
reputation. We'll see what she does, but if my offer's more than the
sales tax, she may go for it. It's a very clean car that shows no
signs of sludging, at least on the rocker arms or in the PCV hose, and
would fit my needs just fine for a daily driver. High book in this
area on these is around $6100, but a quick survey shows them all
selling retail for what I'm offering. I note some late VW Jettas are
also selling for just over low book everywhere except VW dealerships,
for the same reason. I did check one of those out, and a peek inside
the valve cover did indeed shows a nasty amount of sludge.

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:16:05 -0700, DeserTBoB >
wrote:


>
>She hasn't decided on a new car yet, but I'm going to offer her above
>whatever any dealer will give her...which can't be very much!

That is one of the dealers "tricks". They may offer her 5K trade in
toward a new car which looks great to the person trading in the car
but in reality if she had no trade at all she could have gotten the
price of the new car down another couple of thousand.... So really
she is only getting 2 or 3k for the old car at most, it just looks
good on paper.

You could probably find the same car on a dealer lot (maybe event the
exact same car) for less money than the dealer is offering her for it.
I would keep looking if it were me unless you just really want that
particular car.

Steve B.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 03:33:30 GMT, Steve B. > wrote:

>That is one of the dealers "tricks". They may offer her 5K trade in
>toward a new car which looks great to the person trading in the car
>but in reality if she had no trade at all she could have gotten the
>price of the new car down another couple of thousand.... So really
>she is only getting 2 or 3k for the old car at most, it just looks
>good on paper. <snip>

Oh yeah, I know all about "fluffing the trade." They take it in for
$5K on paper, pad the new car $2K to cover the diff between their
trade and what they want the trade for and they go for it every time.

Let's say they do offer her $5K on the trade, which would be a fair
midrange on this car for retail. They throw on $2 or 3K onto the
invoice before she even knows what's happening, they get the trade for
$2 or 3K, put it on the lot for $500 over high book and then can
comfortably "haggle" down below high book and still make a fat profit
on the back end of the trade.

My only thing here is that dealers are very wary of 2.7L cars and
generally don't want them on trade due to their reputation, deserved
or not. This car is near showroom and shows no signs of oil sludging,
and I thought since I know the history of the car, it'd be worth it to
offer her a little more than the dealer would. I really don't want to
try to "program" her (she IS a neighbor!) but, I do like the car and
know that the "sludging" problem wouldn't be a problem with my kind of
maintenance.

We'll just see what they do offer her on trade to try to pad the new
car price and go from there.

In article >,
"Bob Shuman" > wrote:

> If she trades it in at the dealer, then the price usually comes off the top
> of the negotiated price for the vehicle. The net result here is to reduce
> the sales tax by the amount of the trade-in. In most states, this would be
> more than $100, so I would say "no deal" to your generous offer.
That is true here as well with regard to the tax being on the
difference, however it is well known that buying without a trade results
in a significantly lower price on the new vehicle.
Well more than a $100 saving.
Trades the dealers don't want go to auction clearance sales here.