RTV Sealant

What is the best RTV to use for the intake manifold DP stainless steel
gasket. Black or Red?? FLAPS guy said Red takes a higher temp. Eric

Eric wrote:
>
> What is the best RTV to use for the intake manifold DP stainless steel
> gasket. Black or Red?? FLAPS guy said Red takes a higher temp. Eric


Is this a trick question?

None, the steel pressed intake manifold gaskets are designed to be used
without any sealant, and they do the job pretty well. Just don't reuse
them, they are compressed when tigthened and won't bounce back.

So.. always use new gaskets.

One of the worst things people do, is put RTV sealant everywhere. It has
very little use in an aircooled VW engine.

Jan

Jan Andersson wrote:

> Eric wrote:
>
>>What is the best RTV to use for the intake manifold DP stainless steel
>>gasket. Black or Red?? FLAPS guy said Red takes a higher temp. Eric
>
>
>
> Is this a trick question?
>
> None, the steel pressed intake manifold gaskets are designed to be used
> without any sealant, and they do the job pretty well. Just don't reuse
> them, they are compressed when tigthened and won't bounce back.
>
> So.. always use new gaskets.
>
> One of the worst things people do, is put RTV sealant everywhere. It has
> very little use in an aircooled VW engine.
>
> Jan

Jan is right about RTV popping up (and out) everywhere
on an engine. Ugly!

But there *is* a legitimate concern about sealing those
metal gaskets (IMHO).

They worked great at the factory when the heads were
shiny new and had just been machined flat and parallel
and the manifold end castings too.

But in the real world, a qtr-century later, when all the
surfaces have long lost their lustre and flatness, the
metal gaskets often simply don't work.

Maybe the fix is to always insist on removing the heads
and re-machining them to spec. and having the end castings
surfaced. Or.......apply a little sealant.

I understand that in the UK they no longer even use
the metal gaskets; there is some paper-based thing
that seals every time.

Which sealant? Really doesn't matter; the intake part
of the head never glows red.

--

Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

Speedy Jim wrote:
>
> I understand that in the UK they no longer even use
> the metal gaskets; there is some paper-based thing
> that seals every time.

I have used the paper type. They seal pretty well the first time you use
them, but they are not reusable.
They usually stick to the aluminum and tear when you take off the intake
manifold. Need to use some sort of compound there to avoid sticking. On
the other hand, you want them to stick, for a good seal... hmm.
Then when you remove the old paper gasket, you have to remove the
remains mechanically.. most people use a screwdriver to peel it off the
head. Goodbye smooth, straight sealing surface

Also the paper gasket allows the end casting piece to bend when
tightened.
Bend enough so it will crack one "ear" off. The metal gasket offers more
even pressure.


> Which sealant? Really doesn't matter; the intake part
> of the head never glows red.

Anything that doesn't dry hard like glass? And doesn't react with
gasoline.

I haven't had any leak problems with clean, decent surfaces and metal
gaskets assembled dry. I spend some time making sure the surfaces are
straight and smooth. The metal gasket is very soft, it follows the shape
of the sealing surfaces pretty well when tightened. Once.

Jan

"Speedy Jim" > wrote in message
...
> Jan Andersson wrote:
>
> > Eric wrote:
> >
> >>What is the best RTV to use for the intake manifold DP stainless steel
> >>gasket. Black or Red?? FLAPS guy said Red takes a higher temp. Eric
> >
> >
> >
> > Is this a trick question?
> >
> > None, the steel pressed intake manifold gaskets are designed to be used
> > without any sealant, and they do the job pretty well. Just don't reuse
> > them, they are compressed when tigthened and won't bounce back.
> >
> > So.. always use new gaskets.
> >
> > One of the worst things people do, is put RTV sealant everywhere. It has
> > very little use in an aircooled VW engine.
> >
> > Jan
>
> Jan is right about RTV popping up (and out) everywhere
> on an engine. Ugly!
>
> But there *is* a legitimate concern about sealing those
> metal gaskets (IMHO).
>
> They worked great at the factory when the heads were
> shiny new and had just been machined flat and parallel
> and the manifold end castings too.
>
> But in the real world, a qtr-century later, when all the
> surfaces have long lost their lustre and flatness, the
> metal gaskets often simply don't work.
>
> Maybe the fix is to always insist on removing the heads
> and re-machining them to spec. and having the end castings
> surfaced. Or.......apply a little sealant.
>
> I understand that in the UK they no longer even use
> the metal gaskets; there is some paper-based thing
> that seals every time.
>
> Which sealant? Really doesn't matter; the intake part
> of the head never glows red.
>


Jim, dont know about anyone else, but I use the metal gaskets, double sided
things with squishy stuff in between.

James

Juper Wort wrote:

> "Speedy Jim" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Jan Andersson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Eric wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>What is the best RTV to use for the intake manifold DP stainless steel
>>>>gasket. Black or Red?? FLAPS guy said Red takes a higher temp. Eric
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Is this a trick question?
>>>
>>>None, the steel pressed intake manifold gaskets are designed to be used
>>>without any sealant, and they do the job pretty well. Just don't reuse
>>>them, they are compressed when tigthened and won't bounce back.
>>>
>>>So.. always use new gaskets.
>>>
>>>One of the worst things people do, is put RTV sealant everywhere. It has
>>>very little use in an aircooled VW engine.
>>>
>>>Jan
>>
>> Jan is right about RTV popping up (and out) everywhere
>> on an engine. Ugly!
>>
>> But there *is* a legitimate concern about sealing those
>> metal gaskets (IMHO).
>>
>> They worked great at the factory when the heads were
>> shiny new and had just been machined flat and parallel
>> and the manifold end castings too.
>>
>> But in the real world, a qtr-century later, when all the
>> surfaces have long lost their lustre and flatness, the
>> metal gaskets often simply don't work.
>>
>> Maybe the fix is to always insist on removing the heads
>> and re-machining them to spec. and having the end castings
>> surfaced. Or.......apply a little sealant.
>>
>> I understand that in the UK they no longer even use
>> the metal gaskets; there is some paper-based thing
>> that seals every time.
>>
>> Which sealant? Really doesn't matter; the intake part
>> of the head never glows red.
>>
>
>
>
> Jim, dont know about anyone else, but I use the metal gaskets, double sided
> things with squishy stuff in between.
>
> James
>
>
That sounds like something different (an improvement).
The stock gaskets that were used and that come with
the gasket sets is a single layer of metal and nothing else.

You may be on to something as revolutionary as sliced bread! <g>

--

Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

Speedy Jim wrote:
>
> Juper Wort wrote:
>
> > "Speedy Jim" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Jan Andersson wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Eric wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>What is the best RTV to use for the intake manifold DP stainless steel
> >>>>gasket. Black or Red?? FLAPS guy said Red takes a higher temp. Eric
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Is this a trick question?
> >>>
> >>>None, the steel pressed intake manifold gaskets are designed to be used
> >>>without any sealant, and they do the job pretty well. Just don't reuse
> >>>them, they are compressed when tigthened and won't bounce back.
> >>>
> >>>So.. always use new gaskets.
> >>>
> >>>One of the worst things people do, is put RTV sealant everywhere. It has
> >>>very little use in an aircooled VW engine.
> >>>
> >>>Jan
> >>
> >> Jan is right about RTV popping up (and out) everywhere
> >> on an engine. Ugly!
> >>
> >> But there *is* a legitimate concern about sealing those
> >> metal gaskets (IMHO).
> >>
> >> They worked great at the factory when the heads were
> >> shiny new and had just been machined flat and parallel
> >> and the manifold end castings too.
> >>
> >> But in the real world, a qtr-century later, when all the
> >> surfaces have long lost their lustre and flatness, the
> >> metal gaskets often simply don't work.
> >>
> >> Maybe the fix is to always insist on removing the heads
> >> and re-machining them to spec. and having the end castings
> >> surfaced. Or.......apply a little sealant.
> >>
> >> I understand that in the UK they no longer even use
> >> the metal gaskets; there is some paper-based thing
> >> that seals every time.
> >>
> >> Which sealant? Really doesn't matter; the intake part
> >> of the head never glows red.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim, dont know about anyone else, but I use the metal gaskets, double sided
> > things with squishy stuff in between.
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> That sounds like something different (an improvement).
> The stock gaskets that were used and that come with
> the gasket sets is a single layer of metal and nothing else.
>
> You may be on to something as revolutionary as sliced bread! <g>
>
> --
>
> Speedy Jim
> http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

I've seen those too, but haven't tried yet. Something like that anyway.
Don't know where to get them.

Jan

"Speedy Jim" > wrote in message
...
> Juper Wort wrote:
>
> > "Speedy Jim" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Jan Andersson wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Eric wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>What is the best RTV to use for the intake manifold DP stainless steel
> >>>>gasket. Black or Red?? FLAPS guy said Red takes a higher temp. Eric
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Is this a trick question?
> >>>
> >>>None, the steel pressed intake manifold gaskets are designed to be used
> >>>without any sealant, and they do the job pretty well. Just don't reuse
> >>>them, they are compressed when tigthened and won't bounce back.
> >>>
> >>>So.. always use new gaskets.
> >>>
> >>>One of the worst things people do, is put RTV sealant everywhere. It
has
> >>>very little use in an aircooled VW engine.
> >>>
> >>>Jan
> >>
> >> Jan is right about RTV popping up (and out) everywhere
> >> on an engine. Ugly!
> >>
> >> But there *is* a legitimate concern about sealing those
> >> metal gaskets (IMHO).
> >>
> >> They worked great at the factory when the heads were
> >> shiny new and had just been machined flat and parallel
> >> and the manifold end castings too.
> >>
> >> But in the real world, a qtr-century later, when all the
> >> surfaces have long lost their lustre and flatness, the
> >> metal gaskets often simply don't work.
> >>
> >> Maybe the fix is to always insist on removing the heads
> >> and re-machining them to spec. and having the end castings
> >> surfaced. Or.......apply a little sealant.
> >>
> >> I understand that in the UK they no longer even use
> >> the metal gaskets; there is some paper-based thing
> >> that seals every time.
> >>
> >> Which sealant? Really doesn't matter; the intake part
> >> of the head never glows red.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim, dont know about anyone else, but I use the metal gaskets, double
sided
> > things with squishy stuff in between.
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> That sounds like something different (an improvement).
> The stock gaskets that were used and that come with
> the gasket sets is a single layer of metal and nothing else.
>
> You may be on to something as revolutionary as sliced bread! <g>
>
> --
>
> Speedy Jim
> http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

Jim,

The stock metal gasket for the inlet manifold is a single layer of metal.
But look closer at the inner edge of the ports (cicles) and you should find
a
narrow semi-circle of raised metal. This forms a "crush" zone for the uneven
surface.

I agree with not using of RTV Sealant.

Grahame
from Aus

Grahame Rumballe wrote:
<SNIP>
>
>
> Jim,
>
> The stock metal gasket for the inlet manifold is a single layer of metal.
> But look closer at the inner edge of the ports (cicles) and you should find
> a
> narrow semi-circle of raised metal. This forms a "crush" zone for the uneven
> surface.
>
> I agree with not using of RTV Sealant.
>
> Grahame
> from Aus
>
>
Yes, I'm quite familiar with how the stock gasket
is *supposed* to work. My point is that often
when fitting up manifold ends to an old/used head,
especially one which is still on the engine and can't
be re-machined flat, they quite simply do not work.

Almost everyone I know has gone thru the ritual of
trying to locate an elusive vacuum leak after making
manifold repairs to an engine in the car. Positively
frustrating...

(No disrespect intended. The gasket was a marvelous
design and no doubt saved VW hundreds of man-hours
on the assembly floor.)

--

Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

Thanks for your "kind" answers. I got righteously indignant and insulting
responses from a Karmann Ghia email list I joined. They are very
knowledgable but can be pompous at times and condescending.
"Speedy Jim" > wrote in message
...
> Grahame Rumballe wrote:
> <SNIP>
>>
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> The stock metal gasket for the inlet manifold is a single layer of metal.
>> But look closer at the inner edge of the ports (cicles) and you should
>> find
>> a
>> narrow semi-circle of raised metal. This forms a "crush" zone for the
>> uneven
>> surface.
>>
>> I agree with not using of RTV Sealant.
>>
>> Grahame
>> from Aus
>>
>>
> Yes, I'm quite familiar with how the stock gasket
> is *supposed* to work. My point is that often
> when fitting up manifold ends to an old/used head,
> especially one which is still on the engine and can't
> be re-machined flat, they quite simply do not work.
>
> Almost everyone I know has gone thru the ritual of
> trying to locate an elusive vacuum leak after making
> manifold repairs to an engine in the car. Positively
> frustrating...
>
> (No disrespect intended. The gasket was a marvelous
> design and no doubt saved VW hundreds of man-hours
> on the assembly floor.)
>
> --
>
> Speedy Jim
> http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/