Wireless keys blanks

"MoPar Man" > wrote in message
...
> bllsht wrote:
>
> > > Is it the case the replacement key is in any way modified,
> > > programmed or altered during the process,
>
> > > or is it that all keys come pre-programmed with a unique code,
> > > and it's a matter of training the car's computer to
> > > recognize and respond to the replacement key's code?
> >
> > Both are the case.
>
> Is so, then what component inside the key is modifiable?
>
> Does the key contain some memory component containing data that can be
> changed?
>
> And without any internal battery or power source, how can the data be
> altered?
>
> > Also, once a key has been programmed to one
> > vehicle, it cannot be programmed to another.
>
> Why can't two vehicles (that are sufficiently similar) be programmed to
> recognize the same key?

It cant be done due to the random coding that the skim module uses. This was
just discussed a few months ago


Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

maxpower wrote:

> It cant be done due to the random coding that the skim module uses.
> This was just discussed a few months ago

If I have two Chrysler 300m's, each having 2 original keys from the
factory, then you're telling me that:

a) I can't take one key from car A and go over to car B and program car
B to recognize the key?

b) I can't buy a third key (from the internet, or from the dealer) and
take it to each car, one at a time, and program it as each car's third
key?

"MoPar Man" > wrote in message
...
> maxpower wrote:
>
> > It cant be done due to the random coding that the skim module uses.
> > This was just discussed a few months ago
>
> If I have two Chrysler 300m's, each having 2 original keys from the
> factory, then you're telling me that:
>
> a) I can't take one key from car A and go over to car B and program car
> B to recognize the key?
>
> b) I can't buy a third key (from the internet, or from the dealer) and
> take it to each car, one at a time, and program it as each car's third
> key?

The key will only start one vehicle, you cant program one key to start to
another vehicle.

Glenn

maxpower wrote:

> The key will only start one vehicle, you cant program one key to
> start to another vehicle.

If that were the case, then there would have to be bi-directional
communication between the key and the ignition module / ignition
computer of the car, instead of one-way communication (from key to
module).

And if there was two-way communication, a new key would have to
initially "learn" a unique code from the module (car) it's intended to
be used with, in which case it would have to have programmable memory to
store the code, and it would have to come originally as a blank key
ready to accept or lean the code. The key would have to have a receiver
circuit and embedded microprocessor or microcontroller. And it would
have to do all that without having an internal battery or external
electrical contacts.

I don't see how the key can do anything except spit out a unique factory
pre-programmed code when energized with an external RF pulse sent by the
ignition module.

In that case, as long as the ignition module receives the code from the
key, and it's one of a handful of codes the module is looking for, then
you've accomplished everything you need to prevent the engine from being
hot-wired and the car stolen. It shouldn't matter that the same key,
spitting out the same code, can be used by another car as long as they
key's code has been pre-programmed into the other car.

"MoPar Man" > wrote in message
...
> maxpower wrote:
>
> > The key will only start one vehicle, you cant program one key to
> > start to another vehicle.
>
> If that were the case, then there would have to be bi-directional
> communication between the key and the ignition module / ignition
> computer of the car, instead of one-way communication (from key to
> module).
>
> And if there was two-way communication, a new key would have to
> initially "learn" a unique code from the module (car) it's intended to
> be used with, in which case it would have to have programmable memory to
> store the code, and it would have to come originally as a blank key
> ready to accept or lean the code. The key would have to have a receiver
> circuit and embedded microprocessor or microcontroller. And it would
> have to do all that without having an internal battery or external
> electrical contacts.
>
> I don't see how the key can do anything except spit out a unique factory
> pre-programmed code when energized with an external RF pulse sent by the
> ignition module.
>
> In that case, as long as the ignition module receives the code from the
> key, and it's one of a handful of codes the module is looking for, then
> you've accomplished everything you need to prevent the engine from being
> hot-wired and the car stolen. It shouldn't matter that the same key,
> spitting out the same code, can be used by another car as long as they
> key's code has been pre-programmed into the other car.


google " rolling codes or hopping codes"

maxpower wrote:

> > > The key will only start one vehicle, you cant program one key
> > > to start to another vehicle.
> >
> > If that were the case, then there would have to be bi-directional
> > communication between the key and the ignition module / ignition
> > computer of the car, instead of one-way communication (from key to
> > module).
>
> google " rolling codes or hopping codes"

That function or behavior only pertains (I would bet) to the key FOB to
arm / disarm the alarm system. Rolling codes are implimented because
the rf signal from the fob can theoretically be "sniffed" by a reciever
close by and replicated.

Rolling codes would not have to be replicated by the key itself as an
ignition immobilizer because of the very close range needed to "sniff"
the code by way of RF-pulse.

And for a rolling code system, the key would presumably have to have a
microprocessor or microcontroller with NV-ram and a battery. The fob
has a battery and imbedded chip, but highly doubt that the key itself
has a battery or a controller so as to impliment the rolling-code
function.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 01:25:58 -0500, "NotMe" > wrote:

>"bllsht" > wrote in message
.. .
>| On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:23:24 -0400, MoPar Man > wrote:
>|
>| >maxpower wrote:
>| >
>| >> > I have an 04 Mini Van with wireless locks and electric doors.
>| >> > I need to replace one of the keys
>| >
>| >> If you are looking to get the job done fast take it to the dealer.
>| >> They will sell you the key and program it. The key must be
>| >> programmed by the dealers scan tool. Some locksmiths can also
>| >> do this for you. The only way you can program that key yourself
>| >> would be if you already had I 2 keys programmed and this would
>| >> make the 3rd.
>| >
>| >I take it that you're describing the "Sentry Key" system:
>| >
>| >http://www.ocls.com/sentry_key.htm
>| >
>| >Is it the case the replacement key is in any way modified, programmed or
>| >altered during the process, or is it that all keys come pre-programmed
>| >with a unique code, and it's a matter of training the car's computer to
>| >recognize and respond to the replacement key's code?
>|
>| Both are the case. Also, once a key has been programmed to one
>| vehicle, it cannot be programmed to another.
>|
>| >
>| >And if a key is stolen, you have to take the car to the dealer to
>| >reprogram the computer so that it will no longer respond to the stolen
>| >key - which is something you can't do at home or can't be done by a
>| >locksmith?
>|
>| Anyone with a DRBIII and the vehicle's access code can do it.
>
>
>Any 'how to' instructions to be had on the internet?
>|
>

I don't know. Try google.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:36:14 -0400, MoPar Man > wrote:

>bllsht wrote:
>
>> > Is it the case the replacement key is in any way modified,
>> > programmed or altered during the process,
>
>> > or is it that all keys come pre-programmed with a unique code,
>> > and it's a matter of training the car's computer to
>> > recognize and respond to the replacement key's code?
>>
>> Both are the case.
>
>Is so, then what component inside the key is modifiable?

The chip.

>
>Does the key contain some memory component containing data that can be
>changed?
>

During the programming process, the vehicle learns the key's unique
ID, and the key learns the vehicle's unique ID. Once this ID is
embedded into the key, it cannot be changed.

>And without any internal battery or power source, how can the data be
>altered?
>

It uses the same power supply it uses to transmit.

>> Also, once a key has been programmed to one
>> vehicle, it cannot be programmed to another.
>
>Why can't two vehicles (that are sufficiently similar) be programmed to
>recognize the same key?

Because the key only learns one vehicle ID.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:45:14 -0400, MoPar Man > wrote:

>maxpower wrote:
>
>> It cant be done due to the random coding that the skim module uses.
>> This was just discussed a few months ago
>
>If I have two Chrysler 300m's, each having 2 original keys from the
>factory, then you're telling me that:
>
>a) I can't take one key from car A and go over to car B and program car
>B to recognize the key?

Can't be done

>
>b) I can't buy a third key (from the internet, or from the dealer) and
>take it to each car, one at a time, and program it as each car's third
>key?

Can't be done

"bllsht" > wrote in message
...
| On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 01:25:58 -0500, "NotMe" > wrote:
|
| >"bllsht" > wrote in message
| .. .
| >| On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:23:24 -0400, MoPar Man > wrote:
| >|
| >| >maxpower wrote:
| >| >
| >| >> > I have an 04 Mini Van with wireless locks and electric doors.
| >| >> > I need to replace one of the keys
| >| >
| >| >> If you are looking to get the job done fast take it to the dealer.
| >| >> They will sell you the key and program it. The key must be
| >| >> programmed by the dealers scan tool. Some locksmiths can also
| >| >> do this for you. The only way you can program that key yourself
| >| >> would be if you already had I 2 keys programmed and this would
| >| >> make the 3rd.
| >| >
| >| >I take it that you're describing the "Sentry Key" system:
| >| >
| >| >http://www.ocls.com/sentry_key.htm
| >| >
| >| >Is it the case the replacement key is in any way modified, programmed
or
| >| >altered during the process, or is it that all keys come pre-programmed
| >| >with a unique code, and it's a matter of training the car's computer
to
| >| >recognize and respond to the replacement key's code?
| >|
| >| Both are the case. Also, once a key has been programmed to one
| >| vehicle, it cannot be programmed to another.
| >|
| >| >
| >| >And if a key is stolen, you have to take the car to the dealer to
| >| >reprogram the computer so that it will no longer respond to the stolen
| >| >key - which is something you can't do at home or can't be done by a
| >| >locksmith?
| >|
| >| Anyone with a DRBIII and the vehicle's access code can do it.
| >
| >
| >Any 'how to' instructions to be had on the internet?
| >|
| >
|
| I don't know. Try google.

Did that early on -- No joy -- seems everthing has a price, which is fine
but at least sell me valid information that I can use at a fair price.

FWIW I lost these somewhere in N Dallas.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/laf/821851944.html

On the very far off chance someone on this group runs across them.