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GM 3.1L V6 coolant temp problem



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 2nd 06, 12:12 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default GM 3.1L V6 coolant temp problem

A bit of a long read, but I'm trying to be thorough and provide all
the information that may be necessary...

My wife's car has a coolant temperature issue and I'm hoping to get
some suggestions from you guys. The car is a 1995 Pontiac Grand Am
SE (3.1L V6) w/150K miles. Auto-transmission and A/C.

The coolant temperature gauge has 5 hash marks:
- 100F
- Unlabeled
- 220F
- Unlabeled
- 280F

A few weeks ago, the heater core died, sending coolant all over my
driveway. I had it towed to the shop. They replaced the heater
core and after doing a pressure test reported the radiator was
leaking, so I also had them replace the radiator. Since then the
engine has run hotter than normal. It's not overheating but it is
definitely hotter.

We have had this car since new. Prior to having the work done, the
coolant temp was always around the 2nd hash mark (which I presume
is about 180F-190F), maybe just a tiny bit above it. The only time
I recall it going close to 220F was when I loaded the car down with
a bunch of heavy stuff to take to the dump

Since having the heater core and radiator replaced, the coolant
temperature will go up to 220F (the 3rd hash mark) just while
cruising on the highway at 65 MPH. When street-driving, it runs
cooler than on the highway (but still hotter than before the work
was done); it will vary from the midpoint of the 2nd and 3rd hash
marks, up to 220F. The coolant temp will drop noticably when
accelerating.

I've taken it back to the shop twice. Last week they verified the
system was staying pressurized, that all the air was bled from the
system, and the fan comes on when they are supposed to. Yesterday
they replaced the thermostat (only charging me for the thermostat
itself). I have also verified the front air dam is in place.

The mechanic's position is that since the coolant temperature is
staying below the fan turn-on point (236F?) the cooling system is
operating normally. I disagree with him. Even though the car
isn't overheating, when we're driving on the highway, the coolant
temperature is 220F (30F above the thermostat opening temperature)
and that's not normal.

1st question: Is the mechanic right?

2nd question: If I'm right, any suggestions on what else to look
at? The upper and lower radiator hoses were replaced a few months
ago and the water pump is 2 years old.

Thanks!

Ads
  #2  
Old May 2nd 06, 01:25 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default GM 3.1L V6 coolant temp problem

check this out (gauge anomaly):
http://www.theherd.com/articles/lt4_temp.html

and (Kool It additive):
http://www.getautohelp.com/automotiv...cts/96001.html

  #3  
Old May 2nd 06, 01:35 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default GM 3.1L V6 coolant temp problem

In article
. com>,
"LinuxTester" > wrote:

> check this out (gauge anomaly):
> http://www.theherd.com/articles/lt4_temp.html


Are you suggesting that he has a LT1/LT4 engine in his Grand Am?

> and (Kool It additive):
> http://www.getautohelp.com/automotiv...cts/96001.html


What if he didn't have Kool-It in his radiator before the heater
core leak?
  #4  
Old May 2nd 06, 11:02 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default GM 3.1L V6 coolant temp problem


"Kevin J. Phillips" > wrote in message
...
> A bit of a long read, but I'm trying to be thorough and provide all
> the information that may be necessary...
>
> My wife's car has a coolant temperature issue and I'm hoping to get
> some suggestions from you guys. The car is a 1995 Pontiac Grand Am
> SE (3.1L V6) w/150K miles. Auto-transmission and A/C.
>
> The coolant temperature gauge has 5 hash marks:
> - 100F
> - Unlabeled
> - 220F
> - Unlabeled
> - 280F
>
> A few weeks ago, the heater core died, sending coolant all over my
> driveway. I had it towed to the shop. They replaced the heater
> core and after doing a pressure test reported the radiator was
> leaking, so I also had them replace the radiator. Since then the
> engine has run hotter than normal. It's not overheating but it is
> definitely hotter.
>
> We have had this car since new. Prior to having the work done, the
> coolant temp was always around the 2nd hash mark (which I presume
> is about 180F-190F), maybe just a tiny bit above it. The only time
> I recall it going close to 220F was when I loaded the car down with
> a bunch of heavy stuff to take to the dump
>
> Since having the heater core and radiator replaced, the coolant
> temperature will go up to 220F (the 3rd hash mark) just while
> cruising on the highway at 65 MPH. When street-driving, it runs
> cooler than on the highway (but still hotter than before the work
> was done); it will vary from the midpoint of the 2nd and 3rd hash
> marks, up to 220F. The coolant temp will drop noticably when
> accelerating.
>
> I've taken it back to the shop twice. Last week they verified the
> system was staying pressurized, that all the air was bled from the
> system, and the fan comes on when they are supposed to. Yesterday
> they replaced the thermostat (only charging me for the thermostat
> itself). I have also verified the front air dam is in place.
>
> The mechanic's position is that since the coolant temperature is
> staying below the fan turn-on point (236F?) the cooling system is
> operating normally. I disagree with him. Even though the car
> isn't overheating, when we're driving on the highway, the coolant
> temperature is 220F (30F above the thermostat opening temperature)
> and that's not normal.
>
> 1st question: Is the mechanic right?
>
> 2nd question: If I'm right, any suggestions on what else to look
> at? The upper and lower radiator hoses were replaced a few months
> ago and the water pump is 2 years old.
>
> Thanks!
>


Verify that the replacement radiator has the same cooling capacity as the
original. Some shops install cheaper radiators with fewer cooling tubes.
They will suffice under normal operation, but you will notice elevated
temperatures under extreme conditions.


--
Kevin Mouton
Automotive Technology Instructor
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green





  #5  
Old May 3rd 06, 01:33 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default GM 3.1L V6 coolant temp problem


Kevin J. Phillips wrote:
> A bit of a long read, but I'm trying to be thorough and provide all
> the information that may be necessary...
>
> My wife's car has a coolant temperature issue and I'm hoping to get
> some suggestions from you guys. The car is a 1995 Pontiac Grand Am
> SE (3.1L V6) w/150K miles. Auto-transmission and A/C.
>
> The coolant temperature gauge has 5 hash marks:
> - 100F
> - Unlabeled
> - 220F
> - Unlabeled
> - 280F
>
> A few weeks ago, the heater core died, sending coolant all over my
> driveway. I had it towed to the shop. They replaced the heater
> core and after doing a pressure test reported the radiator was
> leaking, so I also had them replace the radiator. Since then the
> engine has run hotter than normal. It's not overheating but it is
> definitely hotter.
>
> We have had this car since new. Prior to having the work done, the
> coolant temp was always around the 2nd hash mark (which I presume
> is about 180F-190F), maybe just a tiny bit above it. The only time
> I recall it going close to 220F was when I loaded the car down with
> a bunch of heavy stuff to take to the dump
>
> Since having the heater core and radiator replaced, the coolant
> temperature will go up to 220F (the 3rd hash mark) just while
> cruising on the highway at 65 MPH. When street-driving, it runs
> cooler than on the highway (but still hotter than before the work
> was done); it will vary from the midpoint of the 2nd and 3rd hash
> marks, up to 220F. The coolant temp will drop noticably when
> accelerating.
>
> I've taken it back to the shop twice. Last week they verified the
> system was staying pressurized, that all the air was bled from the
> system, and the fan comes on when they are supposed to. Yesterday
> they replaced the thermostat (only charging me for the thermostat
> itself). I have also verified the front air dam is in place.
>
> The mechanic's position is that since the coolant temperature is
> staying below the fan turn-on point (236F?) the cooling system is
> operating normally. I disagree with him. Even though the car
> isn't overheating, when we're driving on the highway, the coolant
> temperature is 220F (30F above the thermostat opening temperature)
> and that's not normal.
>
> 1st question: Is the mechanic right?
>
> 2nd question: If I'm right, any suggestions on what else to look
> at? The upper and lower radiator hoses were replaced a few months
> ago and the water pump is 2 years old.
>
> Thanks!


First off verify with Pontiac what the normal operating temperature
should be.

Next, have someone check the coolant mixture itself. If they used 100%
coolant when it should have been mixed with 50% with water it will not
transfer heat as effectively.

  #6  
Old May 3rd 06, 06:37 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default GM 3.1L V6 coolant temp problem

Kevin wrote:
> Verify that the replacement radiator has the same cooling capacity as the
> original. Some shops install cheaper radiators with fewer cooling tubes.
> They will suffice under normal operation, but you will notice elevated
> temperatures under extreme conditions.


The shop only installs OEM parts, and I trust them in that respect.

If the radiator wasn't up to snuff, wouldn't I be getting close to
normal temperature on the highway, but overtemp when doing stoplight-
to-stoplight driving?

  #7  
Old May 3rd 06, 06:51 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default GM 3.1L V6 coolant temp problem

John S. wrote:
> First off verify with Pontiac what the normal operating temperature
> should be.


Yep, that's definitely a good idea. :-)

> Next, have someone check the coolant mixture itself. If they used 100%
> coolant when it should have been mixed with 50% with water it will not
> transfer heat as effectively.


That's a pretty basic thing to screw up, but I suppose it couldn't
hurt to check it out...
  #8  
Old May 3rd 06, 07:14 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default GM 3.1L V6 coolant temp problem

Kevin J. Phillips wrote:
> Since having the heater core and radiator replaced, the coolant
> temperature will go up to 220F (the 3rd hash mark) just while
> cruising on the highway at 65 MPH. When street-driving, it runs
> cooler than on the highway (but still hotter than before the work
> was done); it will vary from the midpoint of the 2nd and 3rd hash
> marks, up to 220F. The coolant temp will drop noticably when
> accelerating.
>



IMHO, hot on the highway but cool around town = airflow problem.
There's nothing jammed in between the rad and the A/C condensor? I've
heard of stuff like plastic bags getting jammed in there.

I would also confirm that they replaced the rad with the right size -
maybe they inadvertently used one for a 4cyl, no AC Grand Am? Double
check the part numbers.

Also, if the thermostat has been changed it could be to blame - the one
in my truck stays closed until it's almost too hot (the needle starts to
go past "normal" and then opens like crazy - the temp drops about 20
degrees and then it slams back shut and cycles like this for a while.)
Nothing wrong with it, I just don't like it.

Lastly... check the connectors for the temperature gauge. A little dirt,
a broken wire... could make your gauge read high.

you're not overheating, but 220 sounds high. On the cars I've owned,
"normal" (aka the middle of the factory gauge) is around 190-210F.

Ray
  #9  
Old May 3rd 06, 09:43 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default GM 3.1L V6 coolant temp problem

On Tue, 02 May 2006 12:35:42 GMT aarcuda69062 > wrote:

> In article
> . com>,
> "LinuxTester" > wrote:
>
> > check this out (gauge anomaly):
> > http://www.theherd.com/articles/lt4_temp.html

>
> Are you suggesting that he has a LT1/LT4 engine in his Grand Am?


Not necessarily, but there's nothing with
thinking outside the box.

What was your suggestion to the OP?

> > and (Kool It additive):
> > http://www.getautohelp.com/automotiv...cts/96001.html

>
> What if he didn't have Kool-It in his radiator before the heater
> core leak?


Again, another option. Also, what is your
suggestion to the OP?

Either participate positively, or dont participate.

--
remove MYSHOES to email

Inviato da X-Privat.Org - Registrazione gratuita http://www.x-privat.org/join.php
  #10  
Old May 3rd 06, 11:48 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default GM 3.1L V6 coolant temp problem

Kevin J. Phillips wrote:


>>Next, have someone check the coolant mixture itself. If they used 100%
>>coolant when it should have been mixed with 50% with water it will not
>>transfer heat as effectively.

>
>
> That's a pretty basic thing to screw up, but I suppose it couldn't
> hurt to check it out...


Its a lot more likely to happen now that we have shelves full of the
idiotic "pre-diluted" antifreeze and people get used to just dumping it
in straight all the time.

 




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