Politics and guns are Not in this group's Charter

Must be election time in the US again or something with all you gun
freaks going crazy and getting ready for a shooting war eh?

When is this damn election over so this group can get back on the topic
of Jeeps like the group's Charter calls for?

There are places to talk politics and guns. This isn't it.

For those of you that are unaware of the Charter it is posted he
ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announc...rs.jeep+willys

And it states:

CHARTER: rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys

The unmoderated newsgroup rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys is to be used
for discussions, announcements, expression of opinions, and questions
about Jeep (Trade Mark) and Willys vehicles. It also serves as a
medium for those interested in sharing and exchanging their
experience. It is also meant to be a forum for buying and selling
parts by non-commercial vendors.

Some things that could be discussed....

-Jeep/Willys history
-repairs and modifications
-parts exchange
-technical information
-4x4 driving experiences
-vehicle restoration
-new vehicle evaluations

Some things that shouldn't be discussed....

-4 wheel drive vehicles made by
other manufacturers
-commercial posts

The articles sent to the Jeep listserver will be cross-posted to Usenet
but not vise versa.

END CHARTER.

End quote.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Damn Mike -
First let me say - no disrespect intended - I think (from what I have seen
here) that you are a good guy, you know your stuff and I respect your
opinion and your experience with all things Jeep.

BUT

We were just shooting the bull about guns a little. Having a conversation
about a common interest shared by some of us. From the looks of the thread
it's shared by SEVERAL of us.
If we were all sitting around a camp fire after a day out Jeepin' the same
sort of conversation might come up then too.
for instance:
"Did you hear about the bear attack?"
"No! How do you suppose you'd defend youself against a bear?"
"What do you suppose would be the best weapon in a situation like that?"

and so on....
There were no radical comments, just a sharing or ideas and information.

So, according to what you just said, the ONLY thing we can discuss is jeep
stuff?
Don't know about YOU, but in my group of friends the conversation flows from
one subject to another.
To me, that's what this is, a group pf friends, shooting the bull.

When a group of friends get together, do they ONLY talk about one thing?

So you are saying that we cannot talk about
our dogs
our cats
our boats
our hobbies
our spouses
our children
our love life
fishing or camping - thus the bear killing the child - thus the gun
conversation.
or ANY other topic?

Nothing aobut ANY of our other interests, ONLY jeeps?
That's pretty messed up.
That being the case - this group would be completely dead and boring as
hell.

If you want to get ****y about something, how about raising hell about the
cross posted BS flame war. THAT is a disruption.
I have not yet seen anything in the "bear/gun" conversation that indicates
anyone showing off or raising hell, they are just talking about firearms,
ammunition and the way it would apply to hunting a bear.

And again, I truly mean no disrespect, but because you are Canadian, you are
entitled to your view on the matter. Canadians have a different view on
firearms, and are entitled to their opinion. If it works for you folks, then
more power to you.
Here in the US many people hunt, and shoot, and the majority of the gun
owners here are law abiding, responsible people that enjoy shooting sports.
Sadly all you ever hear about are the bad things.

If the ONLY thing to be discussed here is Jeeps, then screw it, I am not one
to be "dictated" to.
If you are not interested in the gun conversation, then stop reading it.


Kate


"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
: Must be election time in the US again or something with all you gun
: freaks going crazy and getting ready for a shooting war eh?
:
: When is this damn election over so this group can get back on the topic
: of Jeeps like the group's Charter calls for?
:
: There are places to talk politics and guns. This isn't it.
:
: For those of you that are unaware of the Charter it is posted he
:
ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announc...rs.jeep+willys
:
: And it states:
:
: CHARTER: rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
:
: The unmoderated newsgroup rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys is to be used
: for discussions, announcements, expression of opinions, and questions
: about Jeep (Trade Mark) and Willys vehicles. It also serves as a
: medium for those interested in sharing and exchanging their
: experience. It is also meant to be a forum for buying and selling
: parts by non-commercial vendors.
:
: Some things that could be discussed....
:
: -Jeep/Willys history
: -repairs and modifications
: -parts exchange
: -technical information
: -4x4 driving experiences
: -vehicle restoration
: -new vehicle evaluations
:
: Some things that shouldn't be discussed....
:
: -4 wheel drive vehicles made by
: other manufacturers
: -commercial posts
:
: The articles sent to the Jeep listserver will be cross-posted to Usenet
: but not vise versa.
:
: END CHARTER.
:
: End quote.
:
: Mike
: 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
: 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
: Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
: Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
: (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Kate
Did you really mean to type what you did below?

I think the flame war is getting on everyone's nerves a tad bit.

The fundamental topic of conversation here is jeeps(+ willys). Yes sometimes
dogs, guns, fishing, family, etc will pepper the conversation but again the
fundamental topic is jeeps(+willys).

Most people come here for useful advice on how to maintain there vehicle,
often times friendships are formed. Off topic discussions should be limited,
there are other places for them.

Please rethink your position on this.

sincerely
paul drapeau

"Kate" (please ask)> wrote in message
...
>
> If the ONLY thing to be discussed here is Jeeps, then screw it, I am not
> one
> to be "dictated" to.
> If you are not interested in the gun conversation, then stop reading it.
>
>
> Kate
>
>

Well said, Kate.

I started the bear thread not only because I knew you and Mr. Kate off-road
in that area, but also because I think it's entirely relevant to what we run
into when Jeeping into the woods. It is good for other Jeepers to know what
to do in case you do run into a bear or other wildlife while in the
wilderness. I think it is entirely on topic for this group, just as much as
welding an axle on the trail. Lots of people, myself included carry a
firearm while off road and consider it just as necessary as any other of my
emergency gear.

Spdloader




"Kate" (please ask)> wrote in message
...
> Damn Mike -
> First let me say - no disrespect intended - I think (from what I have
> seen
> here) that you are a good guy, you know your stuff and I respect your
> opinion and your experience with all things Jeep.
>
> BUT
>
> We were just shooting the bull about guns a little. Having a conversation
> about a common interest shared by some of us. From the looks of the thread
> it's shared by SEVERAL of us.
> If we were all sitting around a camp fire after a day out Jeepin' the same
> sort of conversation might come up then too.
> for instance:
> "Did you hear about the bear attack?"
> "No! How do you suppose you'd defend youself against a bear?"
> "What do you suppose would be the best weapon in a situation like that?"
>
> and so on....
> There were no radical comments, just a sharing or ideas and information.
>
> So, according to what you just said, the ONLY thing we can discuss is jeep
> stuff?
> Don't know about YOU, but in my group of friends the conversation flows
> from
> one subject to another.
> To me, that's what this is, a group pf friends, shooting the bull.
>
> When a group of friends get together, do they ONLY talk about one thing?
>
> So you are saying that we cannot talk about
> our dogs
> our cats
> our boats
> our hobbies
> our spouses
> our children
> our love life
> fishing or camping - thus the bear killing the child - thus the gun
> conversation.
> or ANY other topic?
>
> Nothing aobut ANY of our other interests, ONLY jeeps?
> That's pretty messed up.
> That being the case - this group would be completely dead and boring as
> hell.
>
> If you want to get ****y about something, how about raising hell about the
> cross posted BS flame war. THAT is a disruption.
> I have not yet seen anything in the "bear/gun" conversation that indicates
> anyone showing off or raising hell, they are just talking about firearms,
> ammunition and the way it would apply to hunting a bear.
>
> And again, I truly mean no disrespect, but because you are Canadian, you
> are
> entitled to your view on the matter. Canadians have a different view on
> firearms, and are entitled to their opinion. If it works for you folks,
> then
> more power to you.
> Here in the US many people hunt, and shoot, and the majority of the gun
> owners here are law abiding, responsible people that enjoy shooting
> sports.
> Sadly all you ever hear about are the bad things.
>
> If the ONLY thing to be discussed here is Jeeps, then screw it, I am not
> one
> to be "dictated" to.
> If you are not interested in the gun conversation, then stop reading it.
>
>
> Kate
>
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> : Must be election time in the US again or something with all you gun
> : freaks going crazy and getting ready for a shooting war eh?
> :
> : When is this damn election over so this group can get back on the topic
> : of Jeeps like the group's Charter calls for?
> :
> : There are places to talk politics and guns. This isn't it.
> :
> : For those of you that are unaware of the Charter it is posted he
> :
> ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announc...rs.jeep+willys
> :
> : And it states:
> :
> : CHARTER: rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
> :
> : The unmoderated newsgroup rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys is to be used
> : for discussions, announcements, expression of opinions, and questions
> : about Jeep (Trade Mark) and Willys vehicles. It also serves as a
> : medium for those interested in sharing and exchanging their
> : experience. It is also meant to be a forum for buying and selling
> : parts by non-commercial vendors.
> :
> : Some things that could be discussed....
> :
> : -Jeep/Willys history
> : -repairs and modifications
> : -parts exchange
> : -technical information
> : -4x4 driving experiences
> : -vehicle restoration
> : -new vehicle evaluations
> :
> : Some things that shouldn't be discussed....
> :
> : -4 wheel drive vehicles made by
> : other manufacturers
> : -commercial posts
> :
> : The articles sent to the Jeep listserver will be cross-posted to Usenet
> : but not vise versa.
> :
> : END CHARTER.
> :
> : End quote.
> :
> : Mike
> : 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> : 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> : Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> : Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> : (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>

Kate wrote:
> Damn Mike -
> First let me say - no disrespect intended - I think (from what I have seen
> here) that you are a good guy, you know your stuff and I respect your
> opinion and your experience with all things Jeep.
>
> BUT
>
> We were just shooting the bull about guns a little. Having a conversation
> about a common interest shared by some of us. From the looks of the thread
> it's shared by SEVERAL of us.
> If we were all sitting around a camp fire after a day out Jeepin' the same
> sort of conversation might come up then too.
> for instance:
> "Did you hear about the bear attack?"
> "No! How do you suppose you'd defend youself against a bear?"
> "What do you suppose would be the best weapon in a situation like that?"
>
> and so on....
> There were no radical comments, just a sharing or ideas and information.
>
> So, according to what you just said, the ONLY thing we can discuss is jeep
> stuff?
> Don't know about YOU, but in my group of friends the conversation flows from
> one subject to another.
> To me, that's what this is, a group pf friends, shooting the bull.
>
> When a group of friends get together, do they ONLY talk about one thing?
>
> So you are saying that we cannot talk about
> our dogs
> our cats
> our boats
> our hobbies
> our spouses
> our children
> our love life
> fishing or camping - thus the bear killing the child - thus the gun
> conversation.
> or ANY other topic?
>
> Nothing aobut ANY of our other interests, ONLY jeeps?
> That's pretty messed up.
> That being the case - this group would be completely dead and boring as
> hell.
>
> If you want to get ****y about something, how about raising hell about the
> cross posted BS flame war. THAT is a disruption.
> I have not yet seen anything in the "bear/gun" conversation that indicates
> anyone showing off or raising hell, they are just talking about firearms,
> ammunition and the way it would apply to hunting a bear.
>
> And again, I truly mean no disrespect, but because you are Canadian, you are
> entitled to your view on the matter. Canadians have a different view on
> firearms, and are entitled to their opinion. If it works for you folks, then
> more power to you.
> Here in the US many people hunt, and shoot, and the majority of the gun
> owners here are law abiding, responsible people that enjoy shooting sports.
> Sadly all you ever hear about are the bad things.
>
> If the ONLY thing to be discussed here is Jeeps, then screw it, I am not one
> to be "dictated" to.
> If you are not interested in the gun conversation, then stop reading it.
>
>
> Kate
>
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> : Must be election time in the US again or something with all you gun
> : freaks going crazy and getting ready for a shooting war eh?
> :
> : When is this damn election over so this group can get back on the topic
> : of Jeeps like the group's Charter calls for?
> :
> : There are places to talk politics and guns. This isn't it.
> :
> : For those of you that are unaware of the Charter it is posted he
> :
> ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announc...rs.jeep+willys
> :
> : And it states:
> :
> : CHARTER: rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
> :
> : The unmoderated newsgroup rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys is to be used
> : for discussions, announcements, expression of opinions, and questions
> : about Jeep (Trade Mark) and Willys vehicles. It also serves as a
> : medium for those interested in sharing and exchanging their
> : experience. It is also meant to be a forum for buying and selling
> : parts by non-commercial vendors.
> :
> : Some things that could be discussed....
> :
> : -Jeep/Willys history
> : -repairs and modifications
> : -parts exchange
> : -technical information
> : -4x4 driving experiences
> : -vehicle restoration
> : -new vehicle evaluations
> :
> : Some things that shouldn't be discussed....
> :
> : -4 wheel drive vehicles made by
> : other manufacturers
> : -commercial posts
> :
> : The articles sent to the Jeep listserver will be cross-posted to Usenet
> : but not vise versa.
> :
> : END CHARTER.
> :
> : End quote.
> :
> : Mike
> : 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> : 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> : Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> : Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> : (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
Bravo! Politics affect everything including Jeeps (emission control &
safety regs.) and some of the places I drive would make firearms a Jeep
accessory.

--
FRH

I kind of agree with both of you (the human arse being perfectly formed for
sitting on the fence).
It all comes down to degrees doesn't it ? We have newsgroups instead of one
big forum to concentrate on the issue in hand - jeeps. But we are people
after all, and conversation does flow naturally from on to off topic. As
long as the wheat isn't swamped by the chaff, I'm all for letting things
take their natural course ..

Dave Milne, Scotland

"Kate" (please ask)> wrote in message
...
> Damn Mike -
> First let me say - no disrespect intended - I think (from what I have
seen
> here) that you are a good guy, you know your stuff and I respect your
> opinion and your experience with all things Jeep.
>
> BUT
>
> We were just shooting the bull about guns a little. Having a conversation
> about a common interest shared by some of us. From the looks of the thread
> it's shared by SEVERAL of us.

"paul" > wrote in message
...
: Kate
: Did you really mean to type what you did below?

Yes, I did.

: I think the flame war is getting on everyone's nerves a tad bit.

To say the least, but I have eliminated most of it from my own view.
It's not that hard to ignore a conversation that you don't want to
participate in.

: : The fundamental topic of conversation here is jeeps(+ willys). Yes
sometimes
: dogs, guns, fishing, family, etc will pepper the conversation but again
the
: fundamental topic is jeeps(+willys).

I understand completely and a fine topic it is.
But just how much can you talk about the same thing over and over?
After a while, you run out of things to say but you still want to talk so
the subject changes a bit.

:
: Most people come here for useful advice on how to maintain there vehicle,
: often times friendships are formed. Off topic discussions should be
limited,
: there are other places for them.

Ok, so here's a scenario for you.
You come to my house for a BBQ, so does spdloader, Billy ray, Mike, jenn,
seahag and some others.
Now, the conversations start with jeeps but end up with some other topic.
Lets say, dogs.
The CCRs of my neighborhood prohibit certain things - like dogs- and I tell
my guests that this topic is not allowed.
Silly as it seems, as no harm is being done, and no crimes commited, I tell
them that they should leave and go to another neighborhood to discuss dogs.
This means everyone leaves my house and goes across town to another
neighborhood where they may not be on familiar ground.
They are now in the company of unfamiliar people that already inhabit that
neighborhood and who may or may not be welcoming to newvcomers. The location
is, lets say across town. An inconvience to get to - as would be hunting
down individual groups to discuss dogs, or guns, or fishing, or whatever.
Segregation is a tough row to hoe.

Why should we have to go to a different neighborhood to talk about out dog,
when at the end of the evening we will open the door on our Jeep and tell
the dog to "load up" ??
What's it hurt if Spdloader warns me to stay out of the woods, and then we
talk about guns?

How is it harming this group in any way?

If anything, it is bringing some of the members closer by sharing their
common interests.

: Please rethink your position on this.

Thank you Paul, I have given your comment a great deal of consideration.
I agree that the charter is the charter.
Yet I see no restriction in the charter regarding other topics, simply a
suggestion of what topics should and should not be posted.
Do you see anything there restricting any of the topics I listed? I don't. I
even went and got my glasses
Lets face it, limitation on our rights (oh GOD I how hate to use this
phrase!) for freedom of speech is just not going to happen.

Sorry if I ruffled feathers but I'm not going to let someone dictate to me
what I can and cannot talk about in an open forum.
I Like the people in this group, and I enjoy getting to know them better.
These OT converstaions are a great way to do that.
Eventually they all come back around to Jeeps - our common ground - the
thing that brings us together.

I have learned a lot both on and off topic and there have been times that I
have been completely bowled over by the intelligence of certain members
here. Other times when I am in awe of the stupidity of others.

Should we all give that up because we occasionally run off topic?

Why is it a problem?
Who is it harming?
What is the cost?
I really do not see the issue in regards to what is a civil conversation
about firearms, or anything else for that matter.

I'm not trying to be a rabble rouser, and I am not trying to step on toes
and I'm surely not trying to offend or anger anyone.

I apologize if I have upset you or Mike. Seriously.

Kate


:
: sincerely
: paul drapeau
:
: "Kate" (please ask)> wrote in message
: ...
: >
: > If the ONLY thing to be discussed here is Jeeps, then screw it, I am not
: > one
: > to be "dictated" to.
: > If you are not interested in the gun conversation, then stop reading it.
: >
: >
: > Kate
: >
: >
:
:

"Spdloader" > wrote in message
...
: Well said, Kate.
:
: I started the bear thread not only because I knew you and Mr. Kate
off-road
: in that area, but also because I think it's entirely relevant to what we
run
: into when Jeeping into the woods. It is good for other Jeepers to know
what
: to do in case you do run into a bear or other wildlife while in the
: wilderness. I think it is entirely on topic for this group, just as much
as
: welding an axle on the trail. Lots of people, myself included carry a
: firearm while off road and consider it just as necessary as any other of
my
: emergency gear.
:
: Spdloader
:
:
Mr Kate (heh heh - he hates that ) and I appreciated it, even though I
poked at you a little for fun.
I will have a rifle rack in my TJ and there is usually always a pistol in
the near vicinity.

Not for anything other than protection, ok, maybe for snake killin too.

Kate

"Frank_v7.0" > wrote
: Bravo! Politics affect everything including Jeeps (emission control &
: safety regs.) and some of the places I drive would make firearms a Jeep
: accessory.
:
: --
: FRH

Dang Frank - where are you wheelin' ?

Kate

I'll get you a pillow Dave.


"Dave Milne" > wrote in message
k...
:I kind of agree with both of you (the human arse being perfectly formed for
: sitting on the fence).
: It all comes down to degrees doesn't it ? We have newsgroups instead of
one
: big forum to concentrate on the issue in hand - jeeps. But we are people
: after all, and conversation does flow naturally from on to off topic. As
: long as the wheat isn't swamped by the chaff, I'm all for letting things
: take their natural course ..
:
: Dave Milne, Scotland
:
: "Kate" (please ask)> wrote in message
: ...
: > Damn Mike -
: > First let me say - no disrespect intended - I think (from what I have
: seen
: > here) that you are a good guy, you know your stuff and I respect your
: > opinion and your experience with all things Jeep.
: >
: > BUT
: >
: > We were just shooting the bull about guns a little. Having a
conversation
: > about a common interest shared by some of us. From the looks of the
thread
: > it's shared by SEVERAL of us.
:
: