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Dana 30 gear noise



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 14th 05, 07:40 PM
L.W.(ßill) Hughes III
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Mike,
Ditto, and with it all together, I would go by feel, rocking the
yoke with my left hand as I cinched it up.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> And if you get it right, then you best be running out to buy a lottery
> ticket because it is your day!
>
> Those preloads are for a R+R job with all new parts. They will not
> match up to real life on used equipment.
>
> Just my $0.02,
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Ads
  #22  
Old July 14th 05, 07:49 PM
L.W.(ßill) Hughes III
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Geez, buy yourself a pipe wrench:
http://www.billhughes.com/pipewrench.jpg to hold the yoke, while you
torque it, how could you set it up with the pinion walking up the
bearing races away from the ring gear that's holding it.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O


Steve wrote:
>
> It's easy. Pop the cover off and wedge a block of wood between the
> carrier and the housing.
>
> Steve
> http://xjeep.dyndns.org

  #23  
Old July 14th 05, 09:40 PM
Mike Romain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

LOL! A shop did my rear one and it didn't last 6 months. I have just
seen way too many failures over the years to want to mess with them. I
think you could be a bit on the tight side, but time tells eh.

Mike

jeff wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike. I knew there was a reason why I wasn't winning the lottery.
> I used all my luck up when I replaced the rear yoke on my YJ. I just
> snugged the replacement up tight until I got out of the woods, and then
> tightened it to 35 in-lb running torque. I won't do that again but it
> has lasted about 70,000 miles so far. Live and learn.
>
> --
> jeff
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > And if you get it right, then you best be running out to buy a lottery
> > ticket because it is your day!
> >
> > Those preloads are for a R+R job with all new parts. They will not
> > match up to real life on used equipment.

  #24  
Old July 18th 05, 02:41 PM
Peter Pontbriand
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Okay, I'm back from Jamboree and need to get the ZJ going so my wife isn't
constantly at the mall with my TJ. My first step will be to fab up this
"pinion yoke grabber" tool. I've got a three-foot length of 1/4" x 1 1/2"
bar stock handy. Will two holes drilled in this be sufficient, or should I
be building a pivoting arm with a third hole in it like the one in the
picture in the FSM? There are a total of six bolts holding the driveshaft to
this yoke ...

/Peter

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if you don't
> have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up with a
> couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to hold it
> steady while tightening.
>
> They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other kinds
> of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
> even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!
>
> They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
> preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do, you
> fast have a dead box.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> >
> > Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> > turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is

a
> > ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of

any
> > sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> > yoke.
> >
> > Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> > shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten

the
> > nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
> >
> > /Peter
> >
> > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> > > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against

the
> > > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without

axles,
> > > for pinion test.
> > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > >
> > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> > > >
> > > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to

160
> > > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the

pinion
> > with
> > > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be

> > tighter.
> > > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell

what's
> > lash
> > > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with

> > stronger
> > > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard

enough
> > to
> > > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > > >
> > > > /Peter
> > > >
> > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened.

If
> > > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding

up
> > > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush

> > sleeve
> > > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit

it
> > > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling

with
> > the
> > > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used

a
> > > > couple of
> > > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or

Blue?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > /Peter



  #25  
Old July 18th 05, 03:27 PM
Mike Romain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Won't something like a chain oil filter wrench grab it? How about a
plumbers pipe wrench?

I don't have a photo, but the trick is to make the bar so the socket
fits past it if you can or so the socket is just captured under it while
still being able to turn.

Good luck.

Mike

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Okay, I'm back from Jamboree and need to get the ZJ going so my wife isn't
> constantly at the mall with my TJ. My first step will be to fab up this
> "pinion yoke grabber" tool. I've got a three-foot length of 1/4" x 1 1/2"
> bar stock handy. Will two holes drilled in this be sufficient, or should I
> be building a pivoting arm with a third hole in it like the one in the
> picture in the FSM? There are a total of six bolts holding the driveshaft to
> this yoke ...
>
> /Peter
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if you don't
> > have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up with a
> > couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to hold it
> > steady while tightening.
> >
> > They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other kinds
> > of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
> > even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!
> >
> > They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
> > preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do, you
> > fast have a dead box.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> > > turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is

> a
> > > ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of

> any
> > > sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> > > yoke.
> > >
> > > Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> > > shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten

> the
> > > nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> > > > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against

> the
> > > > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without

> axles,
> > > > for pinion test.
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > >
> > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> > > > >
> > > > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to

> 160
> > > > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the

> pinion
> > > with
> > > > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
> > > tighter.
> > > > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell

> what's
> > > lash
> > > > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
> > > stronger
> > > > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard

> enough
> > > to
> > > > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter
> > > > >
> > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened.

> If
> > > > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding

> up
> > > > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
> > > sleeve
> > > > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit

> it
> > > > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling

> with
> > > the
> > > > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used

> a
> > > > > couple of
> > > > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or

> Blue?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > /Peter

  #26  
Old July 18th 05, 04:03 PM
Peter Pontbriand
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The thing is cone shaped, no flat spots for any sort of pipe wrench like a
regular u-joint yoke. There is a narrow lip at the widest part of the cone
(away from the pinion), but it would take a mighty big pipe wrench to grab
that, and I don't have such an animal. Plus, I think it would get pretty
messed up by a pipe wrench doing 160 - 500 ft-lbs. I doubt that an oil
filter wrench would be able to hold it at all.

I've just drilled the two holes in the bar stock so that it can be bolted to
the yoke using two of the six bolts, I just hope that that is sufficient. I
don't want to break or distort the yoke using only two of the holes to hold
it, but trying to fab another arm onto it to grab a third hole seems like
excess right now - it's 33 degrees Celsius in the garage and very humid.

/Peter

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> Won't something like a chain oil filter wrench grab it? How about a
> plumbers pipe wrench?
>
> I don't have a photo, but the trick is to make the bar so the socket
> fits past it if you can or so the socket is just captured under it while
> still being able to turn.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Mike
>
> Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> >
> > Okay, I'm back from Jamboree and need to get the ZJ going so my wife

isn't
> > constantly at the mall with my TJ. My first step will be to fab up this
> > "pinion yoke grabber" tool. I've got a three-foot length of 1/4" x 1

1/2"
> > bar stock handy. Will two holes drilled in this be sufficient, or should

I
> > be building a pivoting arm with a third hole in it like the one in the
> > picture in the FSM? There are a total of six bolts holding the

driveshaft to
> > this yoke ...
> >
> > /Peter
> >
> > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if you don't
> > > have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up with

a
> > > couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to hold

it
> > > steady while tightening.
> > >
> > > They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other kinds
> > > of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
> > > even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!
> > >
> > > They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
> > > preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do, you
> > > fast have a dead box.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear

from
> > > > turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that.

This is
> > a
> > > > ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench

of
> > any
> > > > sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding

the
> > > > yoke.
> > > >
> > > > Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and

axle
> > > > shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to

tighten
> > the
> > > > nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
> > > >
> > > > /Peter
> > > >
> > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as

the
> > > > > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up

against
> > the
> > > > > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without

> > axles,
> > > > > for pinion test.
> > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite

then.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the

nut to
> > 160
> > > > > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the

> > pinion
> > > > with
> > > > > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to

be
> > > > tighter.
> > > > > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell

> > what's
> > > > lash
> > > > > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper

with
> > > > stronger
> > > > > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal

hard
> > enough
> > > > to
> > > > > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have

loosened.
> > If
> > > > > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not

sliding
> > up
> > > > > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the

crush
> > > > sleeve
> > > > > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you

hit
> > it
> > > > > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in

feeling
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been

re-used
> > a
> > > > > > couple of
> > > > > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red

or
> > Blue?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > /Peter



  #27  
Old July 18th 05, 04:11 PM
Earle Horton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thirty years ago I would have used an air impact wrench, but now I have more
experience. Please disregard this. ;o)

Earle

"Peter Pontbriand" <TRIMsprocketATstormDOTcaTRIM> wrote in message
...
> The thing is cone shaped, no flat spots for any sort of pipe wrench like a
> regular u-joint yoke. There is a narrow lip at the widest part of the cone
> (away from the pinion), but it would take a mighty big pipe wrench to grab
> that, and I don't have such an animal. Plus, I think it would get pretty
> messed up by a pipe wrench doing 160 - 500 ft-lbs. I doubt that an oil
> filter wrench would be able to hold it at all.
>
> I've just drilled the two holes in the bar stock so that it can be bolted

to
> the yoke using two of the six bolts, I just hope that that is sufficient.

I
> don't want to break or distort the yoke using only two of the holes to

hold
> it, but trying to fab another arm onto it to grab a third hole seems like
> excess right now - it's 33 degrees Celsius in the garage and very humid.
>
> /Peter
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Won't something like a chain oil filter wrench grab it? How about a
> > plumbers pipe wrench?
> >
> > I don't have a photo, but the trick is to make the bar so the socket
> > fits past it if you can or so the socket is just captured under it while
> > still being able to turn.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Okay, I'm back from Jamboree and need to get the ZJ going so my wife

> isn't
> > > constantly at the mall with my TJ. My first step will be to fab up

this
> > > "pinion yoke grabber" tool. I've got a three-foot length of 1/4" x 1

> 1/2"
> > > bar stock handy. Will two holes drilled in this be sufficient, or

should
> I
> > > be building a pivoting arm with a third hole in it like the one in the
> > > picture in the FSM? There are a total of six bolts holding the

> driveshaft to
> > > this yoke ...
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if you

don't
> > > > have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up

with
> a
> > > > couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to

hold
> it
> > > > steady while tightening.
> > > >
> > > > They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other

kinds
> > > > of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
> > > > even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!
> > > >
> > > > They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
> > > > preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do,

you
> > > > fast have a dead box.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear

> from
> > > > > turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that.

> This is
> > > a
> > > > > ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a

wrench
> of
> > > any
> > > > > sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for

holding
> the
> > > > > yoke.
> > > > >
> > > > > Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and

> axle
> > > > > shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to

> tighten
> > > the
> > > > > nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter
> > > > >
> > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as

> the
> > > > > > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up

> against
> > > the
> > > > > > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds

without
> > > axles,
> > > > > > for pinion test.
> > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite

> then.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the

> nut to
> > > 160
> > > > > > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned

the
> > > pinion
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs

to
> be
> > > > > tighter.
> > > > > > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell
> > > what's
> > > > > lash
> > > > > > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper

> with
> > > > > stronger
> > > > > > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal

> hard
> > > enough
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > > > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have

> loosened.
> > > If
> > > > > > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not

> sliding
> > > up
> > > > > > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the

> crush
> > > > > sleeve
> > > > > > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have

you
> hit
> > > it
> > > > > > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in

> feeling
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been

> re-used
> > > a
> > > > > > > couple of
> > > > > > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it?

Red
> or
> > > Blue?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > /Peter

>
>



  #28  
Old July 18th 05, 04:13 PM
Mike Romain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ya that's how the Jeep shop wrecked mine.

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> Thirty years ago I would have used an air impact wrench, but now I have more
> experience. Please disregard this. ;o)
>
> Earle
>
> "Peter Pontbriand" <TRIMsprocketATstormDOTcaTRIM> wrote in message
> ...
> > The thing is cone shaped, no flat spots for any sort of pipe wrench like a
> > regular u-joint yoke. There is a narrow lip at the widest part of the cone
> > (away from the pinion), but it would take a mighty big pipe wrench to grab
> > that, and I don't have such an animal. Plus, I think it would get pretty
> > messed up by a pipe wrench doing 160 - 500 ft-lbs. I doubt that an oil
> > filter wrench would be able to hold it at all.
> >
> > I've just drilled the two holes in the bar stock so that it can be bolted

> to
> > the yoke using two of the six bolts, I just hope that that is sufficient.

> I
> > don't want to break or distort the yoke using only two of the holes to

> hold
> > it, but trying to fab another arm onto it to grab a third hole seems like
> > excess right now - it's 33 degrees Celsius in the garage and very humid.
> >
> > /Peter
> >
> > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Won't something like a chain oil filter wrench grab it? How about a
> > > plumbers pipe wrench?
> > >
> > > I don't have a photo, but the trick is to make the bar so the socket
> > > fits past it if you can or so the socket is just captured under it while
> > > still being able to turn.
> > >
> > > Good luck.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Okay, I'm back from Jamboree and need to get the ZJ going so my wife

> > isn't
> > > > constantly at the mall with my TJ. My first step will be to fab up

> this
> > > > "pinion yoke grabber" tool. I've got a three-foot length of 1/4" x 1

> > 1/2"
> > > > bar stock handy. Will two holes drilled in this be sufficient, or

> should
> > I
> > > > be building a pivoting arm with a third hole in it like the one in the
> > > > picture in the FSM? There are a total of six bolts holding the

> > driveshaft to
> > > > this yoke ...
> > > >
> > > > /Peter
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if you

> don't
> > > > > have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up

> with
> > a
> > > > > couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to

> hold
> > it
> > > > > steady while tightening.
> > > > >
> > > > > They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other

> kinds
> > > > > of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
> > > > > even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!
> > > > >
> > > > > They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
> > > > > preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do,

> you
> > > > > fast have a dead box.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear

> > from
> > > > > > turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that.

> > This is
> > > > a
> > > > > > ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a

> wrench
> > of
> > > > any
> > > > > > sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for

> holding
> > the
> > > > > > yoke.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and

> > axle
> > > > > > shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to

> > tighten
> > > > the
> > > > > > nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as

> > the
> > > > > > > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up

> > against
> > > > the
> > > > > > > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds

> without
> > > > axles,
> > > > > > > for pinion test.
> > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite

> > then.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the

> > nut to
> > > > 160
> > > > > > > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned

> the
> > > > pinion
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs

> to
> > be
> > > > > > tighter.
> > > > > > > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell
> > > > what's
> > > > > > lash
> > > > > > > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper

> > with
> > > > > > stronger
> > > > > > > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal

> > hard
> > > > enough
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > > > > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have

> > loosened.
> > > > If
> > > > > > > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not

> > sliding
> > > > up
> > > > > > > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the

> > crush
> > > > > > sleeve
> > > > > > > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have

> you
> > hit
> > > > it
> > > > > > > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in

> > feeling
> > > > with
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been

> > re-used
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > couple of
> > > > > > > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it?

> Red
> > or
> > > > Blue?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > /Peter

> >
> >

  #29  
Old July 18th 05, 04:23 PM
Peter Pontbriand
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Disregard what, exactly? The bit about the air impact wrench? Seeing as I
don't have one, that won't be a problem ;-)

Actually, someone mentioned somewhere in this thread that using anything
further sown the drivetrain to hold the pinion from turning wouldn't work.
Now that I've played around with it a bit more, I can see - or should I say
feel - how the gear teeth would cause the pinion to "walk" a bit, thowing
things off. I think the only way to do this properly is to have something to
hold the yoke itself, which is what I've done. I've reinstalled it using red
Loc-Tite on the nut, snugged it up to 160 ft-lbs, and removed my yoke
grabber. The axle shafts are removed, and it's taking way less torque than
my inch-lbs torque wrench can measure to turn the pinion.

So, just to make sure, what I should be doing now is increasing the torque
on the pinion yoke nut incrementally until it takes 30 inch-lbs or so to
turn the pinion?

/Peter

"Earle Horton" > wrote in message
news:1121699291.1230ba0de444f436447964b5ba854b66@t eranews...
> Thirty years ago I would have used an air impact wrench, but now I have

more
> experience. Please disregard this. ;o)
>
> Earle
>
> "Peter Pontbriand" <TRIMsprocketATstormDOTcaTRIM> wrote in message
> ...
> > The thing is cone shaped, no flat spots for any sort of pipe wrench like

a
> > regular u-joint yoke. There is a narrow lip at the widest part of the

cone
> > (away from the pinion), but it would take a mighty big pipe wrench to

grab
> > that, and I don't have such an animal. Plus, I think it would get pretty
> > messed up by a pipe wrench doing 160 - 500 ft-lbs. I doubt that an oil
> > filter wrench would be able to hold it at all.
> >
> > I've just drilled the two holes in the bar stock so that it can be

bolted
> to
> > the yoke using two of the six bolts, I just hope that that is

sufficient.
> I
> > don't want to break or distort the yoke using only two of the holes to

> hold
> > it, but trying to fab another arm onto it to grab a third hole seems

like
> > excess right now - it's 33 degrees Celsius in the garage and very humid.
> >
> > /Peter
> >
> > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Won't something like a chain oil filter wrench grab it? How about a
> > > plumbers pipe wrench?
> > >
> > > I don't have a photo, but the trick is to make the bar so the socket
> > > fits past it if you can or so the socket is just captured under it

while
> > > still being able to turn.
> > >
> > > Good luck.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Okay, I'm back from Jamboree and need to get the ZJ going so my wife

> > isn't
> > > > constantly at the mall with my TJ. My first step will be to fab up

> this
> > > > "pinion yoke grabber" tool. I've got a three-foot length of 1/4" x 1

> > 1/2"
> > > > bar stock handy. Will two holes drilled in this be sufficient, or

> should
> > I
> > > > be building a pivoting arm with a third hole in it like the one in

the
> > > > picture in the FSM? There are a total of six bolts holding the

> > driveshaft to
> > > > this yoke ...
> > > >
> > > > /Peter
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if you

> don't
> > > > > have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up

> with
> > a
> > > > > couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to

> hold
> > it
> > > > > steady while tightening.
> > > > >
> > > > > They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other

> kinds
> > > > > of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine

wrong
> > > > > even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine

shop!
> > > > >
> > > > > They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do

the
> > > > > preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do,

> you
> > > > > fast have a dead box.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion

gear
> > from
> > > > > > turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that.

> > This is
> > > > a
> > > > > > ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a

> wrench
> > of
> > > > any
> > > > > > sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for

> holding
> > the
> > > > > > yoke.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs,

and
> > axle
> > > > > > shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to

> > tighten
> > > > the
> > > > > > nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out

as
> > the
> > > > > > > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up

> > against
> > > > the
> > > > > > > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds

> without
> > > > axles,
> > > > > > > for pinion test.
> > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite

> > then.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten

the
> > nut to
> > > > 160
> > > > > > > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned

> the
> > > > pinion
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it

needs
> to
> > be
> > > > > > tighter.
> > > > > > > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to

tell
> > > > what's
> > > > > > lash
> > > > > > > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper

> > with
> > > > > > stronger
> > > > > > > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal

> > hard
> > > > enough
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in

message
> > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > > > > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have

> > loosened.
> > > > If
> > > > > > > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not

> > sliding
> > > > up
> > > > > > > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the

> > crush
> > > > > > sleeve
> > > > > > > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have

> you
> > hit
> > > > it
> > > > > > > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in

> > feeling
> > > > with
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been

> > re-used
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > couple of
> > > > > > > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it?

> Red
> > or
> > > > Blue?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > /Peter

> >
> >

>
>



  #30  
Old July 18th 05, 04:40 PM
Mike Romain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That is the idea Peter. It can take up to 500 ft lb to set that sucker
according to the book I have. I was always told to go at least to 300,
but as mentioned, I have never done one.

Mike

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Disregard what, exactly? The bit about the air impact wrench? Seeing as I
> don't have one, that won't be a problem ;-)
>
> Actually, someone mentioned somewhere in this thread that using anything
> further sown the drivetrain to hold the pinion from turning wouldn't work.
> Now that I've played around with it a bit more, I can see - or should I say
> feel - how the gear teeth would cause the pinion to "walk" a bit, thowing
> things off. I think the only way to do this properly is to have something to
> hold the yoke itself, which is what I've done. I've reinstalled it using red
> Loc-Tite on the nut, snugged it up to 160 ft-lbs, and removed my yoke
> grabber. The axle shafts are removed, and it's taking way less torque than
> my inch-lbs torque wrench can measure to turn the pinion.
>
> So, just to make sure, what I should be doing now is increasing the torque
> on the pinion yoke nut incrementally until it takes 30 inch-lbs or so to
> turn the pinion?
>
> /Peter
>
> "Earle Horton" > wrote in message
> news:1121699291.1230ba0de444f436447964b5ba854b66@t eranews...
> > Thirty years ago I would have used an air impact wrench, but now I have

> more
> > experience. Please disregard this. ;o)
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Peter Pontbriand" <TRIMsprocketATstormDOTcaTRIM> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > The thing is cone shaped, no flat spots for any sort of pipe wrench like

> a
> > > regular u-joint yoke. There is a narrow lip at the widest part of the

> cone
> > > (away from the pinion), but it would take a mighty big pipe wrench to

> grab
> > > that, and I don't have such an animal. Plus, I think it would get pretty
> > > messed up by a pipe wrench doing 160 - 500 ft-lbs. I doubt that an oil
> > > filter wrench would be able to hold it at all.
> > >
> > > I've just drilled the two holes in the bar stock so that it can be

> bolted
> > to
> > > the yoke using two of the six bolts, I just hope that that is

> sufficient.
> > I
> > > don't want to break or distort the yoke using only two of the holes to

> > hold
> > > it, but trying to fab another arm onto it to grab a third hole seems

> like
> > > excess right now - it's 33 degrees Celsius in the garage and very humid.
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Won't something like a chain oil filter wrench grab it? How about a
> > > > plumbers pipe wrench?
> > > >
> > > > I don't have a photo, but the trick is to make the bar so the socket
> > > > fits past it if you can or so the socket is just captured under it

> while
> > > > still being able to turn.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Okay, I'm back from Jamboree and need to get the ZJ going so my wife
> > > isn't
> > > > > constantly at the mall with my TJ. My first step will be to fab up

> > this
> > > > > "pinion yoke grabber" tool. I've got a three-foot length of 1/4" x 1
> > > 1/2"
> > > > > bar stock handy. Will two holes drilled in this be sufficient, or

> > should
> > > I
> > > > > be building a pivoting arm with a third hole in it like the one in

> the
> > > > > picture in the FSM? There are a total of six bolts holding the
> > > driveshaft to
> > > > > this yoke ...
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if you

> > don't
> > > > > > have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up

> > with
> > > a
> > > > > > couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to

> > hold
> > > it
> > > > > > steady while tightening.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other

> > kinds
> > > > > > of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine

> wrong
> > > > > > even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine

> shop!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do

> the
> > > > > > preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do,

> > you
> > > > > > fast have a dead box.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion

> gear
> > > from
> > > > > > > turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that.
> > > This is
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a

> > wrench
> > > of
> > > > > any
> > > > > > > sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for

> > holding
> > > the
> > > > > > > yoke.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs,

> and
> > > axle
> > > > > > > shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to
> > > tighten
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out

> as
> > > the
> > > > > > > > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up
> > > against
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds

> > without
> > > > > axles,
> > > > > > > > for pinion test.
> > > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite
> > > then.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten

> the
> > > nut to
> > > > > 160
> > > > > > > > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned

> > the
> > > > > pinion
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it

> needs
> > to
> > > be
> > > > > > > tighter.
> > > > > > > > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to

> tell
> > > > > what's
> > > > > > > lash
> > > > > > > > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper
> > > with
> > > > > > > stronger
> > > > > > > > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal
> > > hard
> > > > > enough
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > /Peter
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in

> message
> > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > > > > > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have
> > > loosened.
> > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not
> > > sliding
> > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the
> > > crush
> > > > > > > sleeve
> > > > > > > > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have

> > you
> > > hit
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in
> > > feeling
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been
> > > re-used
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > couple of
> > > > > > > > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it?

> > Red
> > > or
> > > > > Blue?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > /Peter
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

 




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