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PS2 Force Feedback vs. PC



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 29th 05, 10:13 AM
ari
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*

> Well, Logitech doesn't know what they're talking about. According
> to the movie at this link:
>
>
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/driving...ort/media.html

I take it for granted that Garrett Young (lead program manager for
Microsoft's racing studio) and Jef Holove (Director of Product
Marketing at Logitech) know what they're talking about when they say
that the Xbox hardware doesn't support FF. Here is what they say:

Garrett Young:
http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/...-Interview/p3/

# If E3 was any indication, MadCatz looks as though they are planning
# a special Forza wheel. We have no doubt that the wheel will be
# spectacular, but will it support force feedback via Forza?
#
# Garrett Young: MadCatz was a great partner for creating our wheel
# for E3. The Xbox doesn't actually support force feedback natively on
# the hardware side, so we are still working out the kinks with them
# on how we can utilize the rumble channel to deliver the
# functionality we want.

Jef Holove:
http://cars.ign.com/articles/526/526...html?fromint=1

# ...the Xbox console doesn't support force feedback.

But maybe I get it all wrong; I don't know. I am going to buy Forza
Motorsport when the game hits the shelves no matter what the Xbox
hardware supports.

--
ari
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  #12  
Old January 29th 05, 11:04 AM
tomb
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Mike King wrote:
| Can anyone comment on FF on a PS2 vs. a PC? Just general opinions. I
| play a lot of GPL NR2003, F1C, LFS, so I know what the PC can do.

The PS2 can do the same (sometimes doesn't due to the arcady nature of the
games, or lack of attention to detail during implementation). The Xbox
*could* if MS got their act together.

| So my dilema is, is the FF on PS2 worth getting a Driving Force Pro,
| and eventually an XBox wheel, or go with a cheaper wheel for the
| consoles? Whew!

Your choice.

Some of the FF on PS2 is pretty amazing. If you like rally and are in the
Europe area (or have a modded PS2 and a PAL-capable TV), try RBR. It's
really good on both PC as well as PS2. On the PS2, it's multi-turn aware
(for DFPro) and allows you to adjust steering ranges different from 200 and
900 degrees. It seems like the FF is the same quality as on the PC, if not
even a bit more "integrated", for lack of a better word. The first time I
tried it I spent a good half an hour just touring around the parking lot,
the first "school mode" track, enjoying exactly what you described, weight
transfer and general car feel, which is strong and precise IMHO.

Test Drive: Eve of Destruction is another interesting title, FF-wise (and
also does multi-turn, although not with adjustable range). GT4 comes to
mind, haven't really tried that yet, though so I won't comment.


  #13  
Old January 29th 05, 01:22 PM
For-Example
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Sounds like the Xbox hardware doesn't support it, but the wheel will. They
are going to try and emulate it using rumble pad commands.

Hey, what ever works! They might pull this off just enough to make it work
reasonably well. Maybe not as good as PC FF, but a step up from Xbox
rumbles.



  #14  
Old January 29th 05, 10:42 PM
Steve Smith
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I'm supposed to be doing a story on console racing games for Car and Driver
magazine, but it's been on hold because Sony dropped online MP from GT4 and
there are no decent steering wheels for the Xbox.

I can't get anybody at Sony to do anything but mumble when I ask about the
missing Net code, and Microsoft clammed up when I asked them about those
nice wheels they used to demo Forza at E3 last year, so I talked to a source
at Logitech. He said neither Logi nor Guillemot/TM had ever bothered to
make a decent wheel for the Xbox because it doesn't support FF (it's never
even been in the SDK), and few console gamers are willing to spend more than
$24.95 (i.e., entry-level Mad Katz) for a non-FF wheel. Hence, no market.

I had heard that there's a Xbox controller-to-USB dongle you can mail-order
from Japan (it only costs $15, but the shipping is twice that), but my Logi
guy said don't bother; the rumble FX are only loosely related to what the
chassis is doing (it does recognize curbs). He said they were all waiting
to hear whether or not the Xbox 2 would support FF before Logi would commit
to making a wheel for it.

OTOH, I have heard good things abt. the Logi DFP (Driving Force Pro), with
both the PS2 and the PC. It's a 900-degree wheel (2-1/2 turns
lock-to-lock), but it will work fine w. games that don't support all that
twirling (it defaults to 270 deg., I think). There are no PC drivers for
it...yet...but if you have Logi's profile s/w you can set it up for a PC, no
prob. Unlike every earlier FF wheel, the DFP uses neither cogs nor wires &
pulleys; it's an induction motor - no physical contact - so you don't get
gear lash or linear friction.

I've have a DFP which I haven't installed (and won't until it's time to
finish the C&D article), but I did try one on Force-Dynamics incredible
shake 'n' bake cockpit simulator. It'd been shaken-not-stirred almost to
death, so I'm not sure it's reliability is up to the original Logi Momo
Force (mine is still going strong), but it's a VERY nice wheel.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Well, Logitech doesn't know what they're talking about. According to
> the movie at this link:
>
> http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/driving...ort/media.html
>
> The Speedster 3 driving wheel will support FF. Granted, you never know
> until things hit the showroom floor, but it does appear that Logitech
> is dead wrong in this case.
>



  #15  
Old January 30th 05, 01:06 AM
tomb
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Steve Smith wrote:

<snipped>

| OTOH, I have heard good things abt. the Logi DFP (Driving Force
| Pro), with both the PS2 and the PC. It's a 900-degree wheel (2-1/2
| turns lock-to-lock), but it will work fine w. games that don't
| support all that twirling (it defaults to 270 deg., I think). There
| are no PC drivers for it...yet...but if you have Logi's profile s/w
| you can set it up for a PC, no prob. Unlike every earlier FF wheel,
| the DFP uses neither cogs nor wires & pulleys; it's an induction
| motor - no physical contact - so you don't get gear lash or linear
| friction.

What? "Induction motor"? That sounds sweet, but I am afraid it's just a
regular set of gears. (with a ball bearing on the wheel shaft like your MOMO
Force, though). Just take off the top of the case to have a look for
yourself.

It is a nice wheel, though. The default range is 200 degrees
(http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...=2250,contenti
d=7226,detail=2).


  #16  
Old January 30th 05, 09:53 PM
Eric Tetz
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wrote:
> Well, Logitech doesn't know what they're talking about.
> According to the movie at this link:
>
>
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/driving...ort/media.html
>
> The Speedster 3 driving wheel will support FF.


Fanatec is full of it. Their website (fanatec.com) claims
the Speedster 3 will support force feedback with "any
current or upcoming racing game. The Speedster 3 ForceShock
allows ForceFeedback with all racing games on Xbox".

Reading between the lines of their intentionally misleading
website, it appears that what they call "force feedback"
is:

1) a generic center spring force, configurable but
unrelated to what's happening in the game (might as
well be a mechanical spring)

2) "ForceEffects" -- aka standard rumble effects, used to
vibrate the wheel shaft

3) "ForceShock" -- when the rumble output from the game
crosses a certain threshold, they jerk the wheel side
to side.

Obviously this is not "force feedback" as the term is used
by every other wheel manufacturer on the planet. Logitech
and the Forza team are both on record that true force
feedback is simply not supported by the XDK.

With that in mind, read the website and watch that video
again. They are slimeballs, IMO, intentionally misleading
people. Looking around the web, there are a large number
of gamers and publications that have been fooled.

  #17  
Old February 2nd 05, 02:51 AM
Steve Smith
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I was misinformed, as Rick Blaine said. Well, an induction device woulda
been great - eliminating mechanical contact (aside from the bearings) would
have eliminated wear and tear on the innards, which is why most FF wheels
eventually fail. Back to the old drawing board. (Damn them! Immersion
owns *all* the patents....)

"tomb" > wrote in message
...
> Steve Smith wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
> | OTOH, I have heard good things abt. the Logi DFP (Driving Force
> | Pro), with both the PS2 and the PC. It's a 900-degree wheel (2-1/2
> | turns lock-to-lock), but it will work fine w. games that don't
> | support all that twirling (it defaults to 270 deg., I think). There
> | are no PC drivers for it...yet...but if you have Logi's profile s/w
> | you can set it up for a PC, no prob. Unlike every earlier FF wheel,
> | the DFP uses neither cogs nor wires & pulleys; it's an induction
> | motor - no physical contact - so you don't get gear lash or linear
> | friction.
>
> What? "Induction motor"? That sounds sweet, but I am afraid it's just a
> regular set of gears. (with a ball bearing on the wheel shaft like your

MOMO
> Force, though). Just take off the top of the case to have a look for
> yourself.
>
> It is a nice wheel, though. The default range is 200 degrees
>

(http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...=2250,contenti
> d=7226,detail=2).
>
>



 




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