fuel economy in car commercials

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:59:11 -0500, "Vendicar Decarian" >
wrote:

>
>"Big Bill" > wrote in message
.. .
>> Do you know what those bonds are? They are Treasury bonds. Do you knw
>> where the funds to redeem those bonds are? Neither does anyone else.
>
> They come from the same place that the cash needed to redeem all other
>bonds and treasury notes comes from.... More borrowing, or taxes.
>
> Are you suggesting that the U.S. government default on it's loans?

Not at all; I'm pointing out that a lot of people have absolutely no
idea of what's going on with Social Security.
>
>
>
>"Big Bill" > wrote in message
.. .
>> Do you know WHY? Do you know what happened to stop those surpluses?
>
> Yup. Bush passed his tax cut for the wealthiest Americans and started
>borrowing trillions to fund those cuts.

Look, I'm not talking about politics. Your ideas about tax cuts are
yours. I'm trying to get people to think; probably a lost cause.
>
> It's all quite obvious.

Obviuously not. :-)
>
>
>
>"Big Bill" > wrote in message
.. .
>> And no, it had nothing to do with Bush, as he wasn't elected before
>> this happened.
>
> Wrong again Retard.
>
> Even if you try to blame the recession.... That happened on Bush's
>watch.
>
> Just like 911 happened on Bush's watch....
>
> AmeriKKKa is nothing more than an animated corpse...
> So long suckers....
>
>

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

On Tue, 29 Mar 05 09:01:26 GMT, (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>>>1. SS has a surplus, a trust fund, that is invested in gov't bonds.
>>
>>Do you know what those bonds are? They are Treasury bonds.
>
>
>Yep, just like thousands of investors own, little different from savings
>bonds.

And how are trhey going to be redeemed?
>
>> Do you knw
>>where the funds to redeem those bonds are? Neither does anyone else.
>
>If people with treasury bonds, T bills, and savings bonds cash them in,
>where does that money come from?

We are discussing Social Security.
You're a college teacher? Would you let one of your students get away
with such a display of ignorance? Don't answer a question with
information about something else, while ignoring the question.
Here it is, incase it was too hard for a college teacher to
understand: Where will we get the money to redeem the Treasury Bonds
that make up the SS "surplus"?
>
>When the foreign investors holding trillions of dollars of US debt
>obligations redeem them, where does that money come from? Bush seems to
>believe it'll never have to be paid.

See above.
>
>>>2. For 2 years under Clinton, the gov't had a surplus, not counting SS.
>>
>>Do you know WHY? Do you know what happened to stop those surpluses?
>
>Yep, Bush squandered them.

Ah, of course. It's Bush's fault. No idea of how our government works,
eh?
First, many presidents were ion office beforeBush who presided over
the spending of SS funds.
Second, the President spends little; it's Congress who spends. And
they do that quite well, regardless of who's in the White House. or
are you too young to remember anything before Bush? If you are,
there's a library on your campus, I'm sure they will let you in.
>
>>You should, if you're as smart as you think you are.
>>And no, it had nothing to do with Bush, as he wasn't elected before
>>this happened.
>>>
>
>The surpluses were during the last 2 years of Clinton.

But do you know *WHY* they were there (it had NOTHING to do with
Clinton, except his record tax increase; and taxes are a burden on the
economy)? And WHY the economy started it's decline before Clintomn
left office?

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

In article >, Lloyd Parker wrote:
>>But not the debt held by the Government.
>
> Irrelevant. If I loan myself $100, am I worse off?

SS starts sending out more money than it takes in. It calls in the
'loan'. Trouble is, the rest of government is spending more money than it
takes in too. Where does the money come from Dr. Parker?

a) Borrow from someone else.
b) Raise taxes.

I want out of SS. I am disciplined enough to save my money without the
government taking it from me with only the promise to pay something
back. Remember, SS is a tax, we have NO PROPERTY RIGHT to the money.
Congress could decide to kill SS at any time and give us nothing.
(although, that I believe is part of the point, to create a
dependence and thusly votes to be in power. If we had property rights to
the money, the democrats couldn't play the 'republicans-are-going-to-take-
away-your-social-security' fear game. It's on par with drugs-are-going-
to-kill-your-children and the-terrorists-are-going-get-you.)

There is no SS for me. The SSA says as much on their website. I pay SS
taxes my entire life, and when I turn 65 I'll get the finger, or shortly
there after. The pyramid will be rubble. Even if the rest of the
government pays back SS. You'll get yours Dr. Parker, but there is no SS
for me. SSA reports going back at least 6 years show this. It's all on
the offical website for you to read.

There are two plans in circulation right now:
1) Do nothing.
2) Have some bit in private accounts.
Plan #1 I get nothing or close to it. Plan #2 I may have something to
walk away with.

I liked the idea of having a property interest to retain at least some of
the funds the government takes from me as SS tax back when President
Clinton proposed it back in 1999. Bush's proposal offers the same basic
thing, a property right to some of the money now taken from me. Even if
it remains in government bonds and there is no other choice, just having
a property interest is of great benefit.

In article >,
Vendicar Decarian > wrote:
>
>
> Don't be silly. That would mean that the there is no faith to be had in
>the U.S. financial system, and that U.S. government bonds were a worthless
>investment.
>
> Once the world realizes this, the 1.5 trillion the world lends the U.S.
>yearly will vanish.
>
> What will happen to the U.S. economy then Jacko? Snicker....
>
> The U.S. is just an animated corpse at this point.
>
> So long suckers.....

You can snicker, but assuming you're correct, there's nowhere on earth
far enough away to avoid the shock waves from the fall of this
particular giant.


--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

In article >, Big Bill wrote:
<in reply to Dr. Parker>
> Ah, yes. You don't care, so you don't think about it.
> The US Government isn't IBM. The US Government is *us*. As a taxpayer,
> *we* have to come up with that money. Twice. Once when we paid our SS
> taxes, and now, since that surplus is in the form of Treasury Bonds,
> we'll have to pay again, when those bonds are redeemed.
> Do you not understand this?

You have to understand, Dr. Parker doesn't think in scientific or
mathematic terms, only in political ones. He's been this way for years.
However, when it comes to SS, he will be collecting much sooner than say
me, so it really doesn't matter to him. He'll get his. They'll raise
taxes on people my age (either income taxes, new taxes, or SS tax) to
cover it. Sure, us younger folk will have even more money taken from us
and flushed down the toilet never to be seen again, but he gets his.

That's how a pyramid scheme works. Get in and get out, it's the suckers
who came in late that are left holding the empty bag. And anyone born
from the early 70s on are going to be those left holding the bag.

"Big Bill" > wrote in message
...
> No, when I buy a Savings Bond, the money is real; I know, I paid it.
> However, when I want to redeem it, the scale is far lower than when
> the SS Bonds will come due; the Government can cover it.

No more real than the dollars used by the Social Security system to
purchase U.S. bonds and treasuries.

Stupid... Stupid... Billyboy.



"Big Bill" > wrote in message
...
> The Government can't cover those bonds used to replace the funds in the SS
> account.

Don't be silly. That would mean that the there is no faith to be had in
the U.S. financial system, and that U.S. government bonds were a worthless
investment.

Once the world realizes this, the 1.5 trillion the world lends the U.S.
yearly will vanish.

What will happen to the U.S. economy then Jacko? Snicker....

The U.S. is just an animated corpse at this point.

So long suckers.....

"Big Bill" > wrote in message
...
> The US Government isn't IBM. The US Government is *us*. As a taxpayer,
> *we* have to come up with that money. Twice. Once when we paid our SS
> taxes, and now, since that surplus is in the form of Treasury Bonds,
> we'll have to pay again,

Given that the American People are getting the money back twice, I your
whining makes me laugh...

Stupid... Stupid... Billyboy.


"Big Bill" > wrote in message
...
> Do you not understand this?

Unlike the typical Republian, We can add.

Stupid... Stupid... Billyboy...

"Brent P" > wrote in message
...
> You have to understand, Dr. Parker doesn't think in scientific or
> mathematic terms, only in political ones. He's been this way for years.
> However, when it comes to SS, he will be collecting much sooner than say
> me, so it really doesn't matter to him. He'll get his. They'll raise
> taxes on people my age (either income taxes, new taxes, or SS tax) to
> cover it. Sure, us younger folk will have even more money taken from us
> and flushed down the toilet never to be seen again, but he gets his.

Poor, poor Brent. His economic future has been stolen by Republican
fiscal mismanagement.

Don't worry Brent. The wealth will trickle down to you.

By the way Brent... What is your plan for funding the $160 trillion in
unfunded liabilities.

In article >, Vendicar Decarian wrote:
>
> "Brent P" > wrote in message
> ...
>> You have to understand, Dr. Parker doesn't think in scientific or
>> mathematic terms, only in political ones. He's been this way for years.
>> However, when it comes to SS, he will be collecting much sooner than say
>> me, so it really doesn't matter to him. He'll get his. They'll raise
>> taxes on people my age (either income taxes, new taxes, or SS tax) to
>> cover it. Sure, us younger folk will have even more money taken from us
>> and flushed down the toilet never to be seen again, but he gets his.

> Poor, poor Brent. His economic future has been stolen by Republican
> fiscal mismanagement.

Government is mismanaged regardless of which wing of the effective single
party is in control. The problem is some people consider wasting money on X
acceptable but not wasting it on Y. One group supports democrats the
other republicans. I support neither because I feel both X and Y are a
unacceptable waste of money.

> Don't worry Brent. The wealth will trickle down to you.

It will redistributed to Dr. Parker and those like him. There is no
social security (drastically reduced benefits at a much older age at
best) for people my age the way things are going, see the ssa website.

> By the way Brent... What is your plan for funding the $160 trillion in
> unfunded liabilities.

What is yours? You seem to offer nothing but insults.

In article >, Lloyd Parker wrote:

> Where the gov't always gets the money -- either raise taxes, cut spending,
> or borrow more.

And we know which two of those you are opposed to.