flat towing instructions

The rules have changed a lot in the last few years, and not all states
and providences are the same. In general, however, anything you tow
that weighs more than 1,500 lbs. total needs auxiliary brakes.
Doesn't matter if you flat tow or put it on a trailer. Check the
requirement in the state(s) where you plan to tow.

Dick


On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:11:43 -0500, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> wrote:

>
> wrote in message
roups.com...
>
>RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
>trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
>be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
>trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?
>
>A trailer would have brakes. Flat towing does not.

What kind of armor do you have on that freakin CJ to make it weigh in at
the max GVWR allowed to keep street legal?

Roy is saying, and I agree that a flat tow won't track so you have side
shear to worry about. Nothing like making a left turn and not having
enough weight on the tow vehicle to hold the back wheels down. You end
up jack knifed faster than you can blink in the rain.

A trailer will track the turn easily....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
> RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
> trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
> be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
> trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?
>
> A trailer would have brakes. Flat towing does not.
>
> Jerry Bransford wrote:
> > If your CJ has the Dana 300, it's really not advisable to flat-tow it
>
> > since there is no internal lubrication for the rear bearing when it's
> in
> > neutral. If it's a Dana 20 or Quadratrac, I can't positively say how
> to
> > flat tow it but the Dana 20, it's likely that the t-case should be in
>
> > neutral and the tranny should be in gear.
> >
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
> as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800* pounds
> with
> a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat *towing so
>
> the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in*
> horsepower
> and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c*ontrol.

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:00:55 GMT, RoyJ > wrote:

>And the steering column should be UNLOCKED!

Boy, that can't be emphasized enough. We took off one day with our ZJ
in tow, and I forgot to unlock the steering. At the first corner, the
wheels turned until they locked, and our motorhome was dragging the ZJ
down the street with the wheels turned about 30-degrees. By the time
I got the motorhome stopped, the ZJ's chassis was so bound up I
couldn't even open the drivers door. A painful lesson.

Dick

You didn't tel lus that you have Full Floaters in the rear. This is a
ciritical bit of information. Unlock front and rear hubs, and tow.

With all four hubs unlocked, the drivetrain will be at rest no matter where
the levers on the tcase and trans are set, and lubrication will not be an
issue. Well, lubrication of the wheel bearings is a consideration, but this
is the same wheter driving under your own power, or being drug down the road
under the power of a tow vehicle.

Roy is suggesting that the CJ is prone to wandering, and if your tow vehicle
is limited to 4800 pound loads, the CJ might wander too much to remain
manageable. My CJ only weighs in at about 3700 pounds, I question yours at
4400. Roy's idea is that the trailer is an easier pull, and if your CJ is
closer to the wieght of my CJ, and a trailer is only 1000 pounds, then it
should be more stable.




> wrote in message
oups.com...
Jerry, I do have the Dana 300, but I have custom unlockable hubs in
the rear. I had assumed I should leave all 4 hubs locked in, however,
in order to splash lubrication around when the wheels turned. However,
maybe I'm mistaken... If I unlock them, would it eliminate the
problem you describe?

RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?





Jerry Bransford wrote:
> If your CJ has the Dana 300, it's really not advisable to flat-tow it

> since there is no internal lubrication for the rear bearing when it's
in
> neutral. If it's a Dana 20 or Quadratrac, I can't positively say how
to
> flat tow it but the Dana 20, it's likely that the t-case should be in

> neutral and the tranny should be in gear.
>

RoyJ wrote:

as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800* pounds
with
a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat *towing so

the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in*
horsepower
and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c*ontrol.

YOU TOLD US IN ANOTHER POST THAT YOUR CJ HAS FULL FLOATING REAR HUBS. This
is a critical bit of information AND IT CHANGES THE ENTIRE DISCUSSION.

Full Floaters allow flat towing, indeed they are a primary reason people
even install them. Well, maybe not primary reason, but CERTAINLY this is an
added benefit.

All you need do is unlock all four hubs, and you are ready to go. The tires
will be disconnected at the hub from the entire rest of the drive train,
COMPLETELY REMOVING the requirement to set the levers on the transmission
and transfer case to any specific position. With the hubs unlocked on the
rear axle, the drivetrain will remain at rest while you are towing your CJ.

Not only do Full Floaters let you flat tow, but if you manage to break an
axle shaft, you can disconnect the affected tire and still drive your Jeep.
This is the primary reason why people install them.

You bought a Bonus, you can flat tow without any worries.







> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I just got a tow vehicle which is only rated to tow 4800 lbs.... so it
> can tow my CJ, but not the CJ + trailer.
>
> Is there anything special I need to know before flat towing? I'm
> guessing I should put the transfer case and transmission in neutral,
> and lock in the hubs. Anything else I should do?
>

You guys are missing an important point, the OP has Full Floating hubs, he
can unlock his rear hubs and the tires turn independently of the drivetrain.

Yes, the issues of keeping his load under control remain, but the issue of
flat towing and keeping the bearings and gears lubricated vanishes.





"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> What kind of armor do you have on that freakin CJ to make it weigh in at
> the max GVWR allowed to keep street legal?
>
> Roy is saying, and I agree that a flat tow won't track so you have side
> shear to worry about. Nothing like making a left turn and not having
> enough weight on the tow vehicle to hold the back wheels down. You end
> up jack knifed faster than you can blink in the rain.
>
> A trailer will track the turn easily....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>
>> RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
>> trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
>> be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
>> trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?
>>
>> A trailer would have brakes. Flat towing does not.
>>
>> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>> > If your CJ has the Dana 300, it's really not advisable to flat-tow it
>>
>> > since there is no internal lubrication for the rear bearing when it's
>> in
>> > neutral. If it's a Dana 20 or Quadratrac, I can't positively say how
>> to
>> > flat tow it but the Dana 20, it's likely that the t-case should be in
>>
>> > neutral and the tranny should be in gear.
>> >
>>
>> RoyJ wrote:
>>
>> as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800* pounds
>> with
>> a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat *towing so
>>
>> the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in*
>> horsepower
>> and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c*ontrol.

fully floating doesn't mean he has manually lockable hubs - did he say he
had them ?

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
> You guys are missing an important point, the OP has Full Floating hubs, he
> can unlock his rear hubs and the tires turn independently of the
drivetrain.
>
> Yes, the issues of keeping his load under control remain, but the issue of
> flat towing and keeping the bearings and gears lubricated vanishes.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> > What kind of armor do you have on that freakin CJ to make it weigh in at
> > the max GVWR allowed to keep street legal?
> >
> > Roy is saying, and I agree that a flat tow won't track so you have side
> > shear to worry about. Nothing like making a left turn and not having
> > enough weight on the tow vehicle to hold the back wheels down. You end
> > up jack knifed faster than you can blink in the rain.
> >
> > A trailer will track the turn easily....
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >>
> >> > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >>
> >> RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
> >> trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
> >> be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
> >> trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?
> >>
> >> A trailer would have brakes. Flat towing does not.
> >>
> >> Jerry Bransford wrote:
> >> > If your CJ has the Dana 300, it's really not advisable to flat-tow it
> >>
> >> > since there is no internal lubrication for the rear bearing when it's
> >> in
> >> > neutral. If it's a Dana 20 or Quadratrac, I can't positively say how
> >> to
> >> > flat tow it but the Dana 20, it's likely that the t-case should be in
> >>
> >> > neutral and the tranny should be in gear.
> >> >
> >>
> >> RoyJ wrote:
> >>
> >> as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800* pounds
> >> with
> >> a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat *towing so
> >>
> >> the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in*
> >> horsepower
> >> and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c*ontrol.
>

Actually, for turning while flat towing, the big issue is the front
steering geometry. It has to have enough caster so it will center well
and not wander, it can't have too much or it just won't turn. Add in
some of the usual off road Jeep issues like big tires, lousy alignment,
wear and tear on ball joints and the rest, and you have one that will
not flat tow well.

The folks who flat tow all the time are the RV types. If you have a
17,000 pound Winnebago, when you turn the Jeep will come along, even if
it isn't quite happy.

Jeff Strickland wrote:
> You guys are missing an important point, the OP has Full Floating hubs,
> he can unlock his rear hubs and the tires turn independently of the
> drivetrain.
>
> Yes, the issues of keeping his load under control remain, but the issue
> of flat towing and keeping the bearings and gears lubricated vanishes.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> What kind of armor do you have on that freakin CJ to make it weigh in at
>> the max GVWR allowed to keep street legal?
>>
>> Roy is saying, and I agree that a flat tow won't track so you have side
>> shear to worry about. Nothing like making a left turn and not having
>> enough weight on the tow vehicle to hold the back wheels down. You end
>> up jack knifed faster than you can blink in the rain.
>>
>> A trailer will track the turn easily....
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>
>> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> oups.com...
>>>
>>> RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
>>> trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
>>> be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
>>> trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?
>>>
>>> A trailer would have brakes. Flat towing does not.
>>>
>>> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>>> > If your CJ has the Dana 300, it's really not advisable to flat-tow it
>>>
>>> > since there is no internal lubrication for the rear bearing when it's
>>> in
>>> > neutral. If it's a Dana 20 or Quadratrac, I can't positively say how
>>> to
>>> > flat tow it but the Dana 20, it's likely that the t-case should be in
>>>
>>> > neutral and the tranny should be in gear.
>>> >
>>>
>>> RoyJ wrote:
>>>
>>> as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800* pounds
>>> with
>>> a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat *towing so
>>>
>>> the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in*
>>> horsepower
>>> and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c*ontrol.
>
>

Hi Matt,
When are you going to put up a picture of your car trailer and
toter? http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/matt_photos/
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/


Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
> trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
> be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
> trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?
>
> A trailer would have brakes. Flat towing does not.
>
> as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800* pounds
> with
> a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat *towing so
>
> the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in*
> horsepower
> and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c*ontrol.

http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/matt_photos/IMG_2309.JPG

Tow vehicle 02 Ford F250 V10.

I was able to get 3 jeeps on this trailer! :-)

"L.W. ("ßill") Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Matt,
> When are you going to put up a picture of your car trailer and
> toter? http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/matt_photos/
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>>
>> RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
>> trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
>> be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
>> trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?
>>
>> A trailer would have brakes. Flat towing does not.
>>
>> as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800* pounds
>> with
>> a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat *towing so
>>
>> the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in*
>> horsepower
>> and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c*ontrol.