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The 'Aquascape System' has the be the WORST pond system outthere



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 15th 03, 04:57 PM
Glenn
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Default The 'Aquascape System' has the be the WORST pond system outthere

Just searching through the internet to see where we are listed, I cam
upon this interesting topic.

I find it interesting that someone would include $ signs when referrin
to our business and what we do. First of all we have been involved i
watergardening for over 14 years, before it became a "fad". We hav
the background and knowledge to create, install and service ou
watergarden clients in a professional manner. That means having
truck and enclosed trailer that is basically a travelling warehous
that allows us to service the clients in a timely manner.......priceta
over $80,000.00. So do we charge our clients for our investment i
knowledge, equipment and service, you bet.

As far as cleaning the AD ponds out each year, another great old men
tale. Yes Greg recommends you may need to clean the pond out eac
year, but it is not necessary. We have not cleaned our A
watergardens out for three years now and they continue to be crysta
clear and all of our Koi are healthy and I can assure you that Gre
does not clean out his 1 million gallon watergarden at his house eac
year.

The biggest challenge to watergardens are the clients we install the
for who insist on playing with the plants, fish and streams whic
really don't need to be adjusted if you just let Mother Nature take he
course. One client we had was constantly checking the pH of her pon
and adjusting and she asked me how often we check ours..........w
don't, I told her, as long as the fish are happy , I'm happy.

The biggest challenge to a healthy watergarden is clients overfeedin
their fish. They can survive on what is in the pond and don't need t
be fed and if you insist on feeding them you will either need to b
frugal in your feeding or introduce a lot of plants to help filter you
pond.

Watergardening is not rocket science as some people try to mak
it.......as Greg says, Kiss it simple stupid...........People laughe
at Edison and Ford and now people cannot accept the success of Greg'
company and would rather belittle his concept to justify theirs instea
of accepting the fact that there may be more than one answer......if i
were not for AD there would be a lot of people still cleaning out thei
silly little pumps with the sponge intake "filter"........

Instead of being in these chats..........enjoy your pond, accep
improvements and celebrate the passion of watergardening.
~ jan wrote:
*I'm gonna snip some and add a few comments after Joe's.

Regarding the AS system my only negative reaction to it is rocks I
the
pond, at least on the bottom of it.

Wlucas4 wrote:
The 'Aquascape System' has the be the WORST pond system on th

market. The
whole pond system is really poorly designed.


Joe reply: Whoa, calm down a notch.


Wlucas4 how long have you had your pond? Joe, sounds like they jus
got
done cleaning it and found out what a JOB it is... but then I have t
clean
out my lily pond in a similar way and it takes 6 hrs and many day
of
painful muscles. ;o) So I can relate to the rant. I don't power was
it,
cause I want the algae on the sides, and I don't have fish to worr
about
as the little guys that make it through winter are moved to a holdin
tank
to grow out and trade to the LFS.

-Adding rocks to the bottom of the pond is absolutly horrible.

All of the
fish waste, all of the leaves and plant debris gets caught on th

bottom of
the pond and can never be cleaned out. It is just a gian

breeding ground
for aermonus bacteria


Yep, you got that right. Do a search in Rec.ponds from Google lookin
for
Subject: *Aquascape and similar ponds* and read that discussion
especially
the post from Gregory Young.

-How are you suppost to clean the 'biofalls'? If you pull th

filter
material out and wash it with a city tap hose you will kill all o

the
bacteria that was growning on the filter material.


I believe you simply slam the filter on some hard surface a fe

times. Works
for me.


The only problem I have with whopping floppy things on to hard
surfaces is
the whopper usually gets as mucky as the whoppee. ;o)

In the system there is
no way to clean out the dirty water in the biofalls after you pull

the
filter material out.


Turn off the pump and siphon it or use a pail.


A shop vac is very useful for this application.

-Draining out the entire system and powerwashing it is a very bad

idea too.
All of the good bacteria will be killed from the clorinated water

and you
will be stuck with the new pond symdrome year after year. It

could take
months depending on your fish load to come back online. It is

very bad for
fish to have a high amonia and nitrite level.


Joe replied: I've never heard anyone saying to do this.


It's in the owner's manual of the AS system. Every spring, (and thi$
i$
what Glenn Rieker'$ www.gardenhaus.com maintenance crew doe$), you
pump
out the pond and power wash it. One has to remember though, the AS
system
is meant to be a WATER GARDEN not a Koi Pond. So the fish load is
suppose
to be low, to very low, and the vegetation VERY high. If this is
followed,
and you don't live in a dust storm prone area, it can work. I still
would
not recommend rocks on the very bottom, the ones on the side you
could wash
away much of the muck.... but, all one has to do is lift one rock to
see
how much muck is getting left behind. Once you refill and adjust the
temp
and pH to the holding tank, adding dechlor if needed, you can put the
fish
back. One should have not been feeding the fish before doing any of
this,
and ideally pump as much old clean water into the holding tank(s) to
pump
back into the pond when finished. Lastly I'd have a big bottle or
better
the dry powder of Amquel on hand and watch my ammonia closely for the
next
3 weeks and check the KH & pH right away, ask if you don't know why.

(I don't have a pond designed by
Aquascape but I do have a skimmer and bio type falls. I think they

work
fine)


-It is impossible to keep the rocks clean

Yes...


and not having sting algae growing
all over the rocks in the pond.


..no. I have some algae on the rocks. If someone building a pond

expects not
to have algae on submerged rocks, they are in for disappointment. I

suggest
this is a problem not unique to Aquascape.


The problem with power washing every spring, besides being a BIG job,
is
the pond never matures.

Since adding a skimmer and bottom drain to my koi ponds, in the
spring all
I do is fill the out-of-the-pond filter with dechlorinated water,
open the
plugs from the pre-filter to the bio-filter and turn on the pump. The
ponds
are perfectly muckless on the bottom because 1) I shop vacced the
muck out
of the bottoms (without draining and removing the fish) in the fall
and 2)
I put a screen over them afterwards that stays till I turn on the
filter.
Totally no stress for the fish and especially for ME. ;o) Plus, the
pond is
mature so I don't ever have a spring algae bloom nor String Algae,
because
of the nice coating of fuzz algae that isn't washed way on the sides
of all
inner surfaces. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website *

--
Glenn
Always root for the underdog....always!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted via www.GardenBanter.co.uk

  #2  
Old November 15th 03, 05:55 PM
Theo van Daele
external usenet poster
 
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Default The 'Aquascape System' has the be the WORST pond system outthere

The biggest challenge to a healthy watergarden is clients overfeeding
their fish.

I haven't read the whole discussion, but may I politely disagree with the
above statement ?

You can overfeed your filtration system, not your fish.

Fish know when to eat and when not to.

It's how they survived quite a few years now :-) Another aspect of "nature
doing it's job" I guess.

Mind you, I have 7 years "less" experience, so that doesn't count. Maybe
if my grandchildren would repeat this statement, it would carry more weight,
as they would have 40 years of experience...

Question: are you talking about watergardens or koi ponds ?

Theo


  #3  
Old November 15th 03, 06:41 PM
J.D. Stone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The 'Aquascape System' has the be the WORST pond system outthere

Playing with semantics. I am sure everyone understood Glenn meant feeding
more than the fish can eat. Least I did.
JD
"Theo van Daele" wrote in message
...
The biggest challenge to a healthy watergarden is clients overfeeding

their fish.

I haven't read the whole discussion, but may I politely disagree with the
above statement ?

You can overfeed your filtration system, not your fish.

Fish know when to eat and when not to.

It's how they survived quite a few years now :-) Another aspect of

"nature
doing it's job" I guess.

Mind you, I have 7 years "less" experience, so that doesn't count. Maybe
if my grandchildren would repeat this statement, it would carry more

weight,
as they would have 40 years of experience...

Question: are you talking about watergardens or koi ponds ?

Theo




  #4  
Old November 15th 03, 06:49 PM
K30a
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Posts: n/a
Default The 'Aquascape System' has the be the WORST pond system outthere

Glenn wrote Greg
does not clean out his 1 million gallon watergarden at his house each
year.

Well, of course he doesn't. But what has that got to do
with 1,000 gallon backyard ponds?



k30a
http://www.geocities.com/watergarden...dors/home.html

  #5  
Old November 15th 03, 08:31 PM
~ jan JJsPond.us
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Posts: n/a
Default The 'Aquascape System' has the be the WORST pond system outthere

Someone (Glenn?) really went digging thru the archives... but that's what
winter is about when we can't be digging ponds I guess. ;o)))

The AS is best as a water garden, unfortunately people get koi and usually
add too many too fast, they get sick and need to medicate. Unfortunately
the medication is rendered almost instantly useless on all the mulm between
the rocks throughout the pond. Now if they're informed and just add a few
koi so water quality doesn't become an issue, the next problem is they grow
to BIG koi in a rock lined pond. The big koi whack themselves against the
rocks when spawning and all that mulm is a great hidey hole for aeromonas
and other bacteria to hang out and next you've got koi with infected
ulcers.

I don't try to steer people away from the AS. I try to steer them away from
rocks on the bottom and to consider adding a bottom drain if they want to
go deeper than 18"-24". Or they can sign in blood that they will never ever
put koi in their AS pond. ;o)

Especially since locally we have people who install them, but don't
"service" them. Thus the new owners all wait till they have problems and
then we have people who do $erious clean out, muck, dirt, $and, mulm and
all those GD rock$$$. ~ jan

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:55:50 GMT, "Theo van Daele" wrote:


Question: are you talking about watergardens or koi ponds ?

Theo

From: Glenn
Date: Sat, Nov 15, 2003 7:57 AM


Just searching through the internet to see where we are listed, I came
upon this interesting topic.


First of all we have been involved in
watergardening for over 14 years, before it became a "fad". We have
the background and knowledge to create, install and service our
watergarden clients in a professional manner. That means having a
truck and enclosed trailer that is basically a travelling warehouse
that allows us to service the clients in a timely manner.......pricetag
over $80,000.00. So do we charge our clients for our investment in
knowledge, equipment and service, you bet.
snip

See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website
  #6  
Old November 15th 03, 09:52 PM
Theo van Daele
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The 'Aquascape System' has the be the WORST pond system outthere

I stopped playing "semantics" about 10 years ago on the internet, especially
because English is not my native language.

I meant *exactly* what I said.

Sometimes your fish can eat more than your filtration system can handle.
Sometimes you overfeed. There is a hughe difference.

You don't need 15 years plus experience to realize you don't want 5 kg of
food floating on the water.

Theo

Playing with semantics. I am sure everyone understood Glenn meant feeding
more than the fish can eat. Least I did.



  #7  
Old November 15th 03, 09:58 PM
Theo van Daele
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Posts: n/a
Default The 'Aquascape System' has the be the WORST pond system outthere

You are playing with semantics Kathy ;-)

Apart from that... a very pertinent question.

Ach, I don't really like internet ranting anymore, it's so last years :-),
but indeed, what has a 1 million gallon pond (was this actually measured ?)
got to do with the price of fish.

I once thought I had seen the be-all-end-all of cosmic BS on car tuning
forums. I now know the world of ponds is much much worse.

I wasn't even following this discussion, I just happened to have my BS meter
go into the red by statements like that indeed.

Theo

"K30a" schreef in bericht
...
Glenn wrote Greg
does not clean out his 1 million gallon watergarden at his house each
year.

Well, of course he doesn't. But what has that got to do
with 1,000 gallon backyard ponds?



k30a
http://www.geocities.com/watergarden...dors/home.html



  #8  
Old November 15th 03, 11:53 PM
K30a
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Posts: n/a
Default The 'Aquascape System' has the be the WORST pond system outthere


Before ponding you probably thought the phrase 'to rock or not to rock' meant
your taste in music.
You didn't know it was a clarion call to strife and mayhem!



k30a
http://www.geocities.com/watergarden...dors/home.html

  #9  
Old November 15th 03, 11:57 PM
john rutz
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Default The 'Aquascape System' has the be the WORST pond system outthere



K30a wrote:
Before ponding you probably thought the phrase 'to rock or not to rock' meant
your taste in music.
You didn't know it was a clarion call to strife and mayhem!



k30a
http://www.geocities.com/watergarden...dors/home.html

SLOMLAP

  #10  
Old November 16th 03, 11:07 AM
Theo van Daele
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Default The 'Aquascape System' has the be the WORST pond system outthere

LOL !

True, but I learnt quickly ;-)


 




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