93 Caravan running rough

Got a 93 Grand Caravan with the 3.3 v6. A couple of weeks ago it would idle
smooth but as soon as you got to about 40 or 45 it would start running bad
and bucking. The garage changed the fuel filter, air filter, and plugs.
The other day it did it again only this time even worse. The thing will
barely idle never mind drive. The check engine light also comes on if you
try to give it any gas - it then stays on until you shut it off.

If I check the code using the key-on-key-off method I get these codes:

1-2 - 4-1 - 5-5

I assume the 55 is the end of codes. According to our Haynes manual the 12
is something about the number of key cycles since the last time the codes
were cleared. The 41 indicates "Alternator field not switching properly"
with an explanation of "An open or shorted condition detected in the
alternator field control circuit."

We had the car towed (because it really was running so bad it wasn't
drivable) to the same garage that just changed out the filter/plugs.
Unfortunately their man mechanic (who is a diagnostic genius) is injured and
will be out for several weeks. The van has been sitting there for a few
days. We called again today and they apparently had just brought it into
the shop. They weren't sure about what the situation is but they were
speculating that it was (and very expensive) the fuel pump. Since most
problems we've had with this thing have been some sort of electrical issue,
and given the trouble code we get, we are pondering whether this is a
possibility. We hate to pull the car out of the shop with the main guy laid
up and take it somewhere else, but we also would hate to shell out major
cash for the wrong problem. If it is possible it is the alternator, voltage
regulator, or some sensor I can probably change that myself there and then
drive it home.

Incidentally I believe both time this happened it was raining, but
definitely
the second time.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any help.

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:39:29 -0400, saabturbo wrote:

> Got a 93 Grand Caravan with the 3.3 v6. A couple of weeks ago it would idle
> smooth but as soon as you got to about 40 or 45 it would start running bad
> and bucking. The garage changed the fuel filter, air filter, and plugs.
> The other day it did it again only this time even worse. The thing will
> barely idle never mind drive. The check engine light also comes on if you
> try to give it any gas - it then stays on until you shut it off.
>
> If I check the code using the key-on-key-off method I get these codes:
>
> 1-2 - 4-1 - 5-5
>
> I assume the 55 is the end of codes. According to our Haynes manual the 12
> is something about the number of key cycles since the last time the codes
> were cleared. The 41 indicates "Alternator field not switching properly"
> with an explanation of "An open or shorted condition detected in the
> alternator field control circuit."
>
> We had the car towed (because it really was running so bad it wasn't
> drivable) to the same garage that just changed out the filter/plugs.
> Unfortunately their man mechanic (who is a diagnostic genius) is injured and
> will be out for several weeks. The van has been sitting there for a few
> days. We called again today and they apparently had just brought it into
> the shop. They weren't sure about what the situation is but they were
> speculating that it was (and very expensive) the fuel pump. Since most
> problems we've had with this thing have been some sort of electrical issue,
> and given the trouble code we get, we are pondering whether this is a
> possibility. We hate to pull the car out of the shop with the main guy laid
> up and take it somewhere else, but we also would hate to shell out major
> cash for the wrong problem. If it is possible it is the alternator, voltage
> regulator, or some sensor I can probably change that myself there and then
> drive it home.
>
> Incidentally I believe both time this happened it was raining, but
> definitely
> the second time.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.

Well, I would have guessed the fuel filter from the symptoms you
described, but you've already replaced that. So, the next thin in the line
in the fuel pressure regulator, which may be separate, or may be part of
the .....fuel pump. Check your Haynes as to Fuel Pressure Regulator and
see what it says.

Or, you may get lucky and it will be a clogged fuel line...

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:39:29 -0400, saabturbo wrote:

> Got a 93 Grand Caravan with the 3.3 v6. A couple of weeks ago it would idle
> smooth but as soon as you got to about 40 or 45 it would start running bad
> and bucking. The garage changed the fuel filter, air filter, and plugs.
> The other day it did it again only this time even worse. The thing will
> barely idle never mind drive. The check engine light also comes on if you
> try to give it any gas - it then stays on until you shut it off.
>
> If I check the code using the key-on-key-off method I get these codes:
>
> 1-2 - 4-1 - 5-5
>
> I assume the 55 is the end of codes. According to our Haynes manual the 12
> is something about the number of key cycles since the last time the codes
> were cleared. The 41 indicates "Alternator field not switching properly"
> with an explanation of "An open or shorted condition detected in the
> alternator field control circuit."
>
> We had the car towed (because it really was running so bad it wasn't
> drivable) to the same garage that just changed out the filter/plugs.
> Unfortunately their man mechanic (who is a diagnostic genius) is injured and
> will be out for several weeks. The van has been sitting there for a few
> days. We called again today and they apparently had just brought it into
> the shop. They weren't sure about what the situation is but they were
> speculating that it was (and very expensive) the fuel pump. Since most
> problems we've had with this thing have been some sort of electrical issue,
> and given the trouble code we get, we are pondering whether this is a
> possibility. We hate to pull the car out of the shop with the main guy laid
> up and take it somewhere else, but we also would hate to shell out major
> cash for the wrong problem. If it is possible it is the alternator, voltage
> regulator, or some sensor I can probably change that myself there and then
> drive it home.
>
> Incidentally I believe both time this happened it was raining, but
> definitely
> the second time.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.

Well, I would have guessed the fuel filter from the symptoms you
described, but you've already replaced that. So, the next thin in the line
in the fuel pressure regulator, which may be separate, or may be part of
the .....fuel pump. Check your Haynes as to Fuel Pressure Regulator and
see what it says.

Or, you may get lucky and it will be a clogged fuel line...

> > Got a 93 Grand Caravan with the 3.3 v6. A couple of weeks ago it would
idle
> > smooth but as soon as you got to about 40 or 45 it would start running
bad
> > and bucking. The garage changed the fuel filter, air filter, and plugs.
> > The other day it did it again only this time even worse. The thing will
> > barely idle never mind drive. The check engine light also comes on if
you
> > try to give it any gas - it then stays on until you shut it off.
> >
> > If I check the code using the key-on-key-off method I get these codes:
> >
> > 1-2 - 4-1 - 5-5
> >
> > I assume the 55 is the end of codes. According to our Haynes manual the
12
> > is something about the number of key cycles since the last time the
codes
> > were cleared. The 41 indicates "Alternator field not switching
properly"
> > with an explanation of "An open or shorted condition detected in the
> > alternator field control circuit."
> >
> > We had the car towed (because it really was running so bad it wasn't
> > drivable) to the same garage that just changed out the filter/plugs.
> > Unfortunately their man mechanic (who is a diagnostic genius) is injured
and
> > will be out for several weeks. The van has been sitting there for a few
> > days. We called again today and they apparently had just brought it
into
> > the shop. They weren't sure about what the situation is but they were
> > speculating that it was (and very expensive) the fuel pump. Since most
> > problems we've had with this thing have been some sort of electrical
issue,
> > and given the trouble code we get, we are pondering whether this is a
> > possibility. We hate to pull the car out of the shop with the main guy
laid
> > up and take it somewhere else, but we also would hate to shell out major
> > cash for the wrong problem. If it is possible it is the alternator,
voltage
> > regulator, or some sensor I can probably change that myself there and
then
> > drive it home.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Well, I would have guessed the fuel filter from the symptoms you
> described, but you've already replaced that. So, the next thin in the line
> in the fuel pressure regulator, which may be separate, or may be part of
> the .....fuel pump. Check your Haynes as to Fuel Pressure Regulator and
> see what it says.
>
> Or, you may get lucky and it will be a clogged fuel line...


Turned out to be a broken wire to the coil.

> > Got a 93 Grand Caravan with the 3.3 v6. A couple of weeks ago it would
idle
> > smooth but as soon as you got to about 40 or 45 it would start running
bad
> > and bucking. The garage changed the fuel filter, air filter, and plugs.
> > The other day it did it again only this time even worse. The thing will
> > barely idle never mind drive. The check engine light also comes on if
you
> > try to give it any gas - it then stays on until you shut it off.
> >
> > If I check the code using the key-on-key-off method I get these codes:
> >
> > 1-2 - 4-1 - 5-5
> >
> > I assume the 55 is the end of codes. According to our Haynes manual the
12
> > is something about the number of key cycles since the last time the
codes
> > were cleared. The 41 indicates "Alternator field not switching
properly"
> > with an explanation of "An open or shorted condition detected in the
> > alternator field control circuit."
> >
> > We had the car towed (because it really was running so bad it wasn't
> > drivable) to the same garage that just changed out the filter/plugs.
> > Unfortunately their man mechanic (who is a diagnostic genius) is injured
and
> > will be out for several weeks. The van has been sitting there for a few
> > days. We called again today and they apparently had just brought it
into
> > the shop. They weren't sure about what the situation is but they were
> > speculating that it was (and very expensive) the fuel pump. Since most
> > problems we've had with this thing have been some sort of electrical
issue,
> > and given the trouble code we get, we are pondering whether this is a
> > possibility. We hate to pull the car out of the shop with the main guy
laid
> > up and take it somewhere else, but we also would hate to shell out major
> > cash for the wrong problem. If it is possible it is the alternator,
voltage
> > regulator, or some sensor I can probably change that myself there and
then
> > drive it home.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Well, I would have guessed the fuel filter from the symptoms you
> described, but you've already replaced that. So, the next thin in the line
> in the fuel pressure regulator, which may be separate, or may be part of
> the .....fuel pump. Check your Haynes as to Fuel Pressure Regulator and
> see what it says.
>
> Or, you may get lucky and it will be a clogged fuel line...


Turned out to be a broken wire to the coil.

> > > Got a 93 Grand Caravan with the 3.3 v6. A couple of weeks ago it
would
> idle
> > > smooth but as soon as you got to about 40 or 45 it would start running
> bad
> > > and bucking. The garage changed the fuel filter, air filter, and
plugs.
> > > The other day it did it again only this time even worse. The thing
will
> > > barely idle never mind drive. The check engine light also comes on if
> you
> > > try to give it any gas - it then stays on until you shut it off.
> > >
> > > If I check the code using the key-on-key-off method I get these codes:
> > >
> > > 1-2 - 4-1 - 5-5
> > >
> > > I assume the 55 is the end of codes. According to our Haynes manual
the
> 12
> > > is something about the number of key cycles since the last time the
> codes
> > > were cleared. The 41 indicates "Alternator field not switching
> properly"
> > > with an explanation of "An open or shorted condition detected in the
> > > alternator field control circuit."
> > >
> > > We had the car towed (because it really was running so bad it wasn't
> > > drivable) to the same garage that just changed out the filter/plugs.
> > > Unfortunately their man mechanic (who is a diagnostic genius) is
injured
> and
> > > will be out for several weeks. The van has been sitting there for a
few
> > > days. We called again today and they apparently had just brought it
> into
> > > the shop. They weren't sure about what the situation is but they were
> > > speculating that it was (and very expensive) the fuel pump. Since
most
> > > problems we've had with this thing have been some sort of electrical
> issue,
> > > and given the trouble code we get, we are pondering whether this is a
> > > possibility. We hate to pull the car out of the shop with the main
guy
> laid
> > > up and take it somewhere else, but we also would hate to shell out
major
> > > cash for the wrong problem. If it is possible it is the alternator,
> voltage
> > > regulator, or some sensor I can probably change that myself there and
> then
> > > drive it home.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any help.
> >
> > Well, I would have guessed the fuel filter from the symptoms you
> > described, but you've already replaced that. So, the next thin in the
line
> > in the fuel pressure regulator, which may be separate, or may be part of
> > the .....fuel pump. Check your Haynes as to Fuel Pressure Regulator and
> > see what it says.
> >
> > Or, you may get lucky and it will be a clogged fuel line...
>
>
> Turned out to be a broken wire to the coil.
>

Actually it failed again - doing the same thing. I'm not sure it is fuel
system related because when it is running poorly you can smell fuel under
the hood big time. Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance.

> > > Got a 93 Grand Caravan with the 3.3 v6. A couple of weeks ago it
would
> idle
> > > smooth but as soon as you got to about 40 or 45 it would start running
> bad
> > > and bucking. The garage changed the fuel filter, air filter, and
plugs.
> > > The other day it did it again only this time even worse. The thing
will
> > > barely idle never mind drive. The check engine light also comes on if
> you
> > > try to give it any gas - it then stays on until you shut it off.
> > >
> > > If I check the code using the key-on-key-off method I get these codes:
> > >
> > > 1-2 - 4-1 - 5-5
> > >
> > > I assume the 55 is the end of codes. According to our Haynes manual
the
> 12
> > > is something about the number of key cycles since the last time the
> codes
> > > were cleared. The 41 indicates "Alternator field not switching
> properly"
> > > with an explanation of "An open or shorted condition detected in the
> > > alternator field control circuit."
> > >
> > > We had the car towed (because it really was running so bad it wasn't
> > > drivable) to the same garage that just changed out the filter/plugs.
> > > Unfortunately their man mechanic (who is a diagnostic genius) is
injured
> and
> > > will be out for several weeks. The van has been sitting there for a
few
> > > days. We called again today and they apparently had just brought it
> into
> > > the shop. They weren't sure about what the situation is but they were
> > > speculating that it was (and very expensive) the fuel pump. Since
most
> > > problems we've had with this thing have been some sort of electrical
> issue,
> > > and given the trouble code we get, we are pondering whether this is a
> > > possibility. We hate to pull the car out of the shop with the main
guy
> laid
> > > up and take it somewhere else, but we also would hate to shell out
major
> > > cash for the wrong problem. If it is possible it is the alternator,
> voltage
> > > regulator, or some sensor I can probably change that myself there and
> then
> > > drive it home.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any help.
> >
> > Well, I would have guessed the fuel filter from the symptoms you
> > described, but you've already replaced that. So, the next thin in the
line
> > in the fuel pressure regulator, which may be separate, or may be part of
> > the .....fuel pump. Check your Haynes as to Fuel Pressure Regulator and
> > see what it says.
> >
> > Or, you may get lucky and it will be a clogged fuel line...
>
>
> Turned out to be a broken wire to the coil.
>

Actually it failed again - doing the same thing. I'm not sure it is fuel
system related because when it is running poorly you can smell fuel under
the hood big time. Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance.

SNIP> >
>
> Actually it failed again - doing the same thing. I'm not sure it is fuel
> system related because when it is running poorly you can smell fuel under
> the hood big time. Any other ideas?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>

IMHO, If fuel is getting out of the system, then air can get in. That could
be your bucking. My 89 smelled of fuel, and when I took of the top of the
aluminum plenum off, with the engine off, you could hear 3 injectors hissing
inside the intake runners. They were shot and were letting fuel into the
engine, as well as leak around the fuel rails. Could be your problem too.
I replaced all 6 injector ... easy job ...and really enjoyed an increase in
driveability.

Gordo

SNIP> >
>
> Actually it failed again - doing the same thing. I'm not sure it is fuel
> system related because when it is running poorly you can smell fuel under
> the hood big time. Any other ideas?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>

IMHO, If fuel is getting out of the system, then air can get in. That could
be your bucking. My 89 smelled of fuel, and when I took of the top of the
aluminum plenum off, with the engine off, you could hear 3 injectors hissing
inside the intake runners. They were shot and were letting fuel into the
engine, as well as leak around the fuel rails. Could be your problem too.
I replaced all 6 injector ... easy job ...and really enjoyed an increase in
driveability.

Gordo