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How much aeration needed?



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 27th 06, 02:16 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
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Default How much aeration needed?


Koi-lo wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
ups.com...

Koi-lo wrote:
"Shorty" wrote in message
oups.com...
Pearling means bubbles of gas sitting on the surface of the plant.

In this case, it refers to a situation when the water is saturated with
oxygen and the additional oxygen produced by the plants does not
dissolve in the water anymore. Then, you can see the bubbles of oxygen
sitting on the plant.

But if you get this in the first two days of water change, this is more
likely to be all the gas dissolved in your tap water.

I'm not an expert at this so correct me if I'm wrong.
=========================
I believe you are correct. The plants pearl on sunny days in my betta
tanks
on a sunny windowsill.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o


=========================
I believe you are correct. The plants pearl on sunny days in my betta
tanks
on a sunny windowsill.

Tanks???
You have them in tiny little bowls. Those are not tanks.

======================
Check my new aquarium webpage. BTW do you keep your bettas with gravel and
plants? My bettas have always had gravel and plants. It's cruel to keep
them any other way as I'm sure you agree. How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?


Sorry, I forgot you had asked this question..I was so excited about
your boy's larger housing that I totally forgot you asked about this.
When I gave to people, they were either neighbors, friends, etc andf I
hardly ever charged them. However, word of mouth people that came to
buy I charged a very nomimal fee and it was usually less than what the
current price at the shops were.
I would ask them about what size tank they would be going into, as well
as explain the proper care if they didn't already know.
When I was breeding with regularity (yrs ago), it wasn't like it is
now. Bettas were given proper care and kept in tanks with common
community fish. People hardly ever kept them in small bowls. Of course
some did. However, it really wasn't the norm, nor were they even near
as popular. Not even close! NetMax probably remembers this, as well as
other old time hobbyists who have been in the hobby as long or longer
than I have. ( since the 1970's).
If somebody were to tell me that they wanted to keep it in a little
bowl I would simply deny them the fish. Plain and simple.
Folks who didn't already know the proper care were educated.
Heck..back then I the smallest tank I can remember there being were the
AllGlass 2 1/2 gallon ones. Not sure on if they were out in the 70's,
as I used 5g's back then for tiny tanks.
How about anyone else...I can't remember.
Back then people didn't have these tiny tanks to choose from or those
horrible contaptions they're selling for Bettas these days. Those clear
plastic things that have an area that's almost a V shape in the middle
for the Betta to be housed in. It holds like a couple/few ounces of
water. These things are horribly cruel. I even stopped going to one of
the local shops because he started selling these things. He got all
excited when I walked in one day and couldn't wait to show me these new
Betta "tanks".
I did one of these faces...= O
I said..I can't believe you are selling such cruel things and walked
out.
He knew better too. He's a local shop trying to compete with the chains
around him and I'm sorry, but he could have done better than that.
There's many 1g set ups with even a light that he could have sold for
less money than he was selling these torture chambers for.
I will say some of these things are getting a little better.
Some have gotten to be a gallon or more and have these mini power
filters and some even have mini fluorescent lights above them. Those
are ok in a constantly warm house or for somebody in a warm climate.
(when talking Bettas that is)
But a couple/few ounces of water? Horrible.

  #12  
Old January 27th 06, 02:34 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?


"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...

Koi-lo wrote:

..
Check my new aquarium webpage. BTW do you keep your bettas with gravel
and
plants? My bettas have always had gravel and plants. It's cruel to
keep
them any other way as I'm sure you agree. How do you make sure everyone
who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?
======================

I checked your page as you suggest and I was so happy to see that most
of them are in larger containers. Good job. = ) And I mean that.


All were less than $1 on 1/2 price day down at the Goodwill Store. :-)

Yes, I agree on the plants, however gravel is not an absolute
necessity, nor is it cruel not to have gravel.


I feel it should be in all betta bowls and tanks as they seem to enjoy
picking around it for who-knows-what. But you were right about the old
bowls I was using. I measure the water they held and it was between 1 qt and
1/2 gallon. All these hold over a gallon except that weird shaped one. The
gravel is also (along with their plants) the bio-filter so they don't have
to suffer any ammonia when I change the water.

It's simply asthetic to
the keeper's eye, brings out better coloring in any fish (one of the
reasons I use gravel in all my tanks except spawning tanks), and
creates more surfaces for the nitrifying bacteria to grow on.
It's not going to harm the fish not to have gravel in it's tank
though..


It keeps them busy. It's more natural than a plain glass bottom.

..it's just better in my personal opinion, but isn't being cruel
if they don't have it.
Yes...my single Betta tanks have plants....mostly baby Java fern shoots
and when they grow too large I simply plant them in one of the larger
tanks.
These Java ferns sprout so many baby plants (worse than a Spider
plant!) that I always have a ton to go around.
They're also great for the spawning and fry growing tanks (the baby
plants).
I must say again, I am so happy that you have given your male Bettas
the larger containers. You did right by them and didn't even say (or
did you a while back when I was off line due to my neck surgery).
Again, good job! = )


I posted the URL to the new page for a week or two. I actually measured the
water, then headed down to Goodwill ..... :-)
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o




  #13  
Old January 27th 06, 03:03 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?


"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?

========
Sorry, I forgot you had asked this question..I was so excited about
your boy's larger housing that I totally forgot you asked about this.
When I gave to people, they were either neighbors, friends, etc andf I
hardly ever charged them. However, word of mouth people that came to
buy I charged a very nomimal fee and it was usually less than what the
current price at the shops were.
I would ask them about what size tank they would be going into, as well
as explain the proper care if they didn't already know.
When I was breeding with regularity (yrs ago), it wasn't like it is
now. Bettas were given proper care and kept in tanks with common
community fish.


I was raising them in NYC (60s/70s). At that time they were kept in small
glass ivy bowls that held about 8oz of water. It was very cruel but the
stores said they had no choice. Space was at a premium there and still is.
Those who knew better had them in larger bowls with some gravel and at least
one small plant of some kind. The bowls were actually either used food
jars, cookie jars or regulation GF bowls, cheap then.

People hardly ever kept them in small bowls. Of course
some did. However, it really wasn't the norm, nor were they even near
as popular. Not even close! NetMax probably remembers this, as well as
other old time hobbyists who have been in the hobby as long or longer
than I have. ( since the 1970's).


There may be regional differences in their care. Here in TN they still keep
them in ivy bowls and sell people these small bowls to keep them in. Most
bettas don't survive very long. I know this because of what people I meet
say. I always hear something like this, "Oh I had a betta once. It lived
about 2 months [or some other time-period less than a year]."

If somebody were to tell me that they wanted to keep it in a little
bowl I would simply deny them the fish. Plain and simple.
Folks who didn't already know the proper care were educated.
Heck..back then I the smallest tank I can remember there being were the
AllGlass 2 1/2 gallon ones. Not sure on if they were out in the 70's,
as I used 5g's back then for tiny tanks.


I always remember there being 2g tanks. My mother bought us a 2g Metaframe
tank in 1952. It had a SS light and a plastic bubble-up filter, gray gravel
and a few real plants. She bought us guppies. I barely remember the GF
bowl and the 2 GF that died in days prior to that. I must have been very
young. Someone clued her in that fish can't live in bowls. I remember she
would change the Angelhair fiberglass filter material, carefully feed them.
That little tank hooked me for a lifetime. :-) I can't remember exactly
when they switched from SS framed tanks to all glass tanks.

How about anyone else...I can't remember.
Back then people didn't have these tiny tanks to choose from or those
horrible contaptions they're selling for Bettas these days. Those clear
plastic things that have an area that's almost a V shape in the middle
for the Betta to be housed in. It holds like a couple/few ounces of
water. These things are horribly cruel.


The stores here have all kinds of tiny over priced plastic bowls for Bettas.
:-( The place I got mine said they were around 1/2 gallon each. They
weren't, and I never gave it a thought because the fish did so well in them.

I even stopped going to one of
the local shops because he started selling these things. He got all
excited when I walked in one day and couldn't wait to show me these new
Betta "tanks".
I did one of these faces...= O
I said..I can't believe you are selling such cruel things and walked
out.
He knew better too. He's a local shop trying to compete with the chains
around him and I'm sorry, but he could have done better than that.
There's many 1g set ups with even a light that he could have sold for
less money than he was selling these torture chambers for.


I don't see any of those here. They used to sell the 1and 2g hex ones you
see on my windowsill, but those are hard to find now. They came with an
UGF, airpump, hood and even a light for $20! What happened to them? They
were excellent for bettas or other small fish. Now all I see are small
bowls and it then jumps to the 10g tank. The 2 and 5g tanks can only be
found in aquarium stores now and they aren't cheap. :-( The all glass 2s
(with glass dividers), the 5 and a few of my 10s were left to me by a
housemate who moved out of state back in 1988.

I will say some of these things are getting a little better.
Some have gotten to be a gallon or more and have these mini power
filters and some even have mini fluorescent lights above them. Those
are ok in a constantly warm house or for somebody in a warm climate.
(when talking Bettas that is)
But a couple/few ounces of water? Horrible.



Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o




  #14  
Old January 27th 06, 06:55 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?

When I make the spray bar move the water
without disturbing the surface I get bubbles and some living things
floating at the surface. When I move the surface around, the stuff seem
to disappear.



I have no idea what you are talking about.


  #15  
Old January 28th 06, 10:31 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?

Shorty wrote,
When starting a planted tank with a few fish. How much aeration do I
need?
I am using a canister filter.


The larger the bio-load and the warmer the water, the less dissolved
oxygen. Canister filters are known to move a lot of water - most types
of aquatic plants that thrive in nature, grow in slow flowing or still
water - plus, algaes do better in a turbulent enviroment. If your going
to use a canister filter, I would point the spray bar in such a way to
move the surface of the water the least amount. If you haven't set the
filter up yet, see if you can take it back to the store and trade it
in. Unless it's a large tank with large fish, those high performance
filters are not necessarily the best filter for the tank! The flow rate
(gph) is much to fast - solid waste becomes traped within the filters
media, because of the flow rate, dissolves quickly and is pumped right
back into the tank as DOCs, an endless supply of plant nutrients
(excessive algae growth occurs). The effectiveness of bio-filtering is
greatly improved the longer the polluted water is held in the filter.

Also... do you recommend surface movement to introduce more oxygen in
the water for the bacteria colony to grow?


The bacteria colony will do fine with or without surface movement -
surface movement is more for the fish. Again, a large bio-load, heat,
and even some medications can/will rob the water from dissolved oxygen,
so your question is a good one, and the answer can differ from tank to
tank. Best way to tell if there is enough dissolved oxygen in a
tropical tank, is to have a few cool water fish in their. I keep eather
a few white cloud mountain minnows in the tank, or a hillstream loach
or two. Cool water fish will show respiratory distress long before the
warm water fish! ....................Frank

  #16  
Old January 28th 06, 12:40 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?

On 26 Jan 2006 05:56:37 -0800, "Shorty"
wrote:

Yes, another question ...
When starting a planted tank with a few fish. How much aeration do I
need? I want to minimize surface turbulence to keep the injected DIY
CO2 in the tank.

I am using a canister filter. When I make the spray bar move the water
without disturbing the surface I get bubbles and some living things
floating at the surface. When I move the surface around, the stuff seem
to disappear.


I quit aereation about a year ago. I got tired of the mineral
deposits. All of my tanks have high densisty popultions: that is over
1 inch of fish/1 gallon of water.

I worried the first few days and watched closely for any movement to
the surface. Never happened. One of my good decisions. I love the
bubbles, but hate the mess.

dick
  #17  
Old January 28th 06, 07:32 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?

Frank wrote:
Shorty wrote,

When starting a planted tank with a few fish. How much aeration do I
need?
I am using a canister filter.



The larger the bio-load and the warmer the water, the less dissolved
oxygen. Canister filters are known to move a lot of water - most types
of aquatic plants that thrive in nature, grow in slow flowing or still
water - plus, algaes do better in a turbulent enviroment.


That is SO odd. My experience is the exact opposite. It must be
specific the the kind of plants and algae. The only place long, fluffy
hair algae grows in my whiskey barrel pond is in part of one barrel
where the water is relatively still for the water lily. The water
hyacinth is much smaller in that barrel too. OTOH, the anacharis
sitting right in front of the spillway in strong current was growing
like crazy and blooming heavily last summer. I also get tons of hair
algae and blanketweed it in the calm, sponge filtered outdoor tank. My
mollies and flagfish love the stuff so I don't worry about it.

Indoors, I have clumps of java fern sitting in the filter outlet, and
they grow faster than the java fern on the other side of the tank. The
only place algae grows along the back of my 10 gallon tank is tangled in
the baby's tears where the current is light. Again, it's clumps of
fluffy hair algae - the kind that's not really attached to anything.
Maybe it gets carried to the filter in current?

I generally put crypts in moving water too, since all the pictures I've
seen of them in nature is bent over from the current in fast-flowing
streams. They seem to do fine that way.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
  #18  
Old January 28th 06, 08:40 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?


Koi-lo wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?

========
Sorry, I forgot you had asked this question..I was so excited about
your boy's larger housing that I totally forgot you asked about this.
When I gave to people, they were either neighbors, friends, etc andf I
hardly ever charged them. However, word of mouth people that came to
buy I charged a very nomimal fee and it was usually less than what the
current price at the shops were.
I would ask them about what size tank they would be going into, as well
as explain the proper care if they didn't already know.
When I was breeding with regularity (yrs ago), it wasn't like it is
now. Bettas were given proper care and kept in tanks with common
community fish.


I was raising them in NYC (60s/70s). At that time they were kept in small
glass ivy bowls that held about 8oz of water. It was very cruel but the
stores said they had no choice. Space was at a premium there and still is.
Those who knew better had them in larger bowls with some gravel and at least
one small plant of some kind. The bowls were actually either used food
jars, cookie jars or regulation GF bowls, cheap then.

People hardly ever kept them in small bowls. Of course
some did. However, it really wasn't the norm, nor were they even near
as popular. Not even close! NetMax probably remembers this, as well as
other old time hobbyists who have been in the hobby as long or longer
than I have. ( since the 1970's).


There may be regional differences in their care. Here in TN they still keep
them in ivy bowls and sell people these small bowls to keep them in. Most
bettas don't survive very long. I know this because of what people I meet
say. I always hear something like this, "Oh I had a betta once. It lived
about 2 months [or some other time-period less than a year]."

If somebody were to tell me that they wanted to keep it in a little
bowl I would simply deny them the fish. Plain and simple.
Folks who didn't already know the proper care were educated.
Heck..back then I the smallest tank I can remember there being were the
AllGlass 2 1/2 gallon ones. Not sure on if they were out in the 70's,
as I used 5g's back then for tiny tanks.


I always remember there being 2g tanks. My mother bought us a 2g Metaframe
tank in 1952. It had a SS light and a plastic bubble-up filter, gray gravel
and a few real plants. She bought us guppies. I barely remember the GF
bowl and the 2 GF that died in days prior to that. I must have been very
young. Someone clued her in that fish can't live in bowls. I remember she
would change the Angelhair fiberglass filter material, carefully feed them.
That little tank hooked me for a lifetime. :-) I can't remember exactly
when they switched from SS framed tanks to all glass tanks.

How about anyone else...I can't remember.
Back then people didn't have these tiny tanks to choose from or those
horrible contaptions they're selling for Bettas these days. Those clear
plastic things that have an area that's almost a V shape in the middle
for the Betta to be housed in. It holds like a couple/few ounces of
water. These things are horribly cruel.


The stores here have all kinds of tiny over priced plastic bowls for Bettas.
:-( The place I got mine said they were around 1/2 gallon each. They
weren't, and I never gave it a thought because the fish did so well in them.

I even stopped going to one of
the local shops because he started selling these things. He got all
excited when I walked in one day and couldn't wait to show me these new
Betta "tanks".
I did one of these faces...= O
I said..I can't believe you are selling such cruel things and walked
out.
He knew better too. He's a local shop trying to compete with the chains
around him and I'm sorry, but he could have done better than that.
There's many 1g set ups with even a light that he could have sold for
less money than he was selling these torture chambers for.


I don't see any of those here. They used to sell the 1and 2g hex ones you
see on my windowsill, but those are hard to find now. They came with an
UGF, airpump, hood and even a light for $20! What happened to them? They
were excellent for bettas or other small fish. Now all I see are small
bowls and it then jumps to the 10g tank. The 2 and 5g tanks can only be
found in aquarium stores now and they aren't cheap. :-( The all glass 2s
(with glass dividers), the 5 and a few of my 10s were left to me by a
housemate who moved out of state back in 1988.

I will say some of these things are getting a little better.
Some have gotten to be a gallon or more and have these mini power
filters and some even have mini fluorescent lights above them. Those
are ok in a constantly warm house or for somebody in a warm climate.
(when talking Bettas that is)
But a couple/few ounces of water? Horrible.



Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o


I even stopped going to one of
the local shops because he started selling these things. He got all
excited when I walked in one day and couldn't wait to show me these new
Betta "tanks".
I did one of these faces...= O
I said..I can't believe you are selling such cruel things and walked
out.
He knew better too. He's a local shop trying to compete with the chains
around him and I'm sorry, but he could have done better than that.
There's many 1g set ups with even a light that he could have sold for
less money than he was selling these torture chambers for.


I don't see any of those here.


Oh my..you've never seen these little plastic things with about 2-3
ounces of water to them..
Hold on I am off to look for a link for you.
You won't believe your eyes.
Azoo is the comany that makes them. PenPlax alsomakes similar ones.
They do get small than what is in this picture, but without anything to
compare size to you really aren't going to see how very small these
things can get.
I've seen them smaller than what's in this link.
Azoo.com isn't up and running right now, I've been trying for half an
hour and still it's down.
PetCo likes to carry these things, but doesn't offer them on their
website.
It depends on the individual stores who carries these.
Some are only going to hold a couple to a few ounces of water. They are
very thin (front to back) too. It's sick.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Azoo-Betta-Fish-...QQcmdZViewItem

  #19  
Old January 28th 06, 09:20 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?


"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...

Koi-lo wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?


you are selling such cruel things and walked
out.
He knew better too. He's a local shop trying to compete with the chains
around him and I'm sorry, but he could have done better than that.
There's many 1g set ups with even a light that he could have sold for
less money than he was selling these torture chambers for.


I don't see any of those here.


Oh my..you've never seen these little plastic things with about 2-3
ounces of water to them..


No. I see the small ones that hold 8oz. That the smallest so far.

Hold on I am off to look for a link for you.
You won't believe your eyes.


Geeze, smaller than 8 oz???? :-(

Azoo is the comany that makes them. PenPlax alsomakes similar ones.
They do get small than what is in this picture, but without anything to
compare size to you really aren't going to see how very small these
things can get.
I've seen them smaller than what's in this link.


I just checked your link. No, I haven't seen them here. The smallest are
the tiny ivy bowls that hold about 8oz of water. Also some plastic tacky
trashy looking stuff that holds 8 to 10 oz. for bettas.

Azoo.com isn't up and running right now, I've been trying for half an
hour and still it's down.
PetCo likes to carry these things, but doesn't offer them on their
website.


Hummm....... ok I seldom go there because the PH is too low there and I
lose too many fish. Also, it's far.

It depends on the individual stores who carries these.
Some are only going to hold a couple to a few ounces of water. They are
very thin (front to back) too. It's sick.


That's why I'm saying SOMEONE should do something, start something to change
the laws like they did with hookbill birds in some states.!!! I'm serious
about that. It kills my soul to see GF sold with those small 1 gallon
bowls. They have no chance at all...... NONE!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Azoo-Betta-Fish-...QQcmdZViewItem


Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
Reading Headers:
http://www.technomom.com/writing/headers.shtml
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o



  #20  
Old January 28th 06, 10:19 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?


Koi-lo wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...

Koi-lo wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?


you are selling such cruel things and walked
out.
He knew better too. He's a local shop trying to compete with the chains
around him and I'm sorry, but he could have done better than that.
There's many 1g set ups with even a light that he could have sold for
less money than he was selling these torture chambers for.

I don't see any of those here.


Oh my..you've never seen these little plastic things with about 2-3
ounces of water to them..


No. I see the small ones that hold 8oz. That the smallest so far.

Hold on I am off to look for a link for you.
You won't believe your eyes.


Geeze, smaller than 8 oz???? :-(

Azoo is the comany that makes them. PenPlax alsomakes similar ones.
They do get small than what is in this picture, but without anything to
compare size to you really aren't going to see how very small these
things can get.
I've seen them smaller than what's in this link.


I just checked your link. No, I haven't seen them here. The smallest are
the tiny ivy bowls that hold about 8oz of water. Also some plastic tacky
trashy looking stuff that holds 8 to 10 oz. for bettas.

Azoo.com isn't up and running right now, I've been trying for half an
hour and still it's down.
PetCo likes to carry these things, but doesn't offer them on their
website.


Hummm....... ok I seldom go there because the PH is too low there and I
lose too many fish. Also, it's far.

It depends on the individual stores who carries these.
Some are only going to hold a couple to a few ounces of water. They are
very thin (front to back) too. It's sick.


That's why I'm saying SOMEONE should do something, start something to change
the laws like they did with hookbill birds in some states.!!! I'm serious
about that. It kills my soul to see GF sold with those small 1 gallon
bowls. They have no chance at all...... NONE!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Azoo-Betta-Fish-...QQcmdZViewItem


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Pardon my confusion, but you recently attacked me on the Goldfish
Question thread about this very thing.
Now having laws is a good thing and somebody should do something?
Can you see my confusion about your comment. Here somebody SHOULD do
something about making laws, and on another thread you used that
against somebody.

As for the 8 oz ones...that isn't what I'm talking about. They get much
smaller than that.
I not kidding either, they couldn't hold more than 3 oz of water.
They're also about as wide as a grown male's body, and probably 1 1/2"
-2" deep.
These things are so abusive it boggles my mind at how they could be
legal.
But without any control or laws ifyou will, in the hobby it's like
anything goes...even if it kills the fish. They show some of these
things with fish in them that don't have labyrinth organs, so you know
they'll be dead very soon of suffocation.
I've seen these other things that are just as bad too.
They look like a bowl, but are like 3/4 - 1" deep (front to back). A
Betta would have to curl up on it's own body just to turn around.
While looking for a good link about those other death traps I told you
about I saw one of these and they had hooked up so it swings back and
forth!!
Can you imagine the poor fish in this thing? I can't, but they're out
there and people are buying them.
It's sick.

I contacted the Meijer company (USA, and no not Fred Meyer, different
store), about their store brand 1g tank boxes showing like 8 Goldies in
the 1g tank and how bad that was becuase 1...they can't live in a 1g
tank like they are advertising and 2...people that don't know better
would use the picture as an example of what can be housed in that tank.
They have since changed the picture but sadly, it's still wrong. = (
I'm going there today and I'll have to see if they have any in stock
because I've forgotten what they used.
I've also asked them several times to stop having the buy one get one
free sale on male Bettas, as there are people do not know they cannot
be housed together.
They still have the sales. = ( It's all about the all mighty dollar.
That seems to always win.
You see Carol, I don't just sit here and not do anything about the poor
care, poor conditions, poor treatment, etc of the fish in this hobby,
(which you are under the impression I do).
I do a lot. I just don't always say so.

 




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